*OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins

Darth Argyle posted:
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Except that Vader doesn't "turn back" by himself. So it could still be Luke who is the Chosen One. Without him, Vader would never have repented his evil ways.

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True, but...


EwokThatCried posted:
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Those experiencing the films I-VI will be left in doubt about Anakin/Vader, maybe even believing the Jedi were wrong and that Luke was the "new" Chosen One. They will be surprised when Vader makes his final turn back to the good side, fulfilling the prophecy.

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meaning that Anakin is the Chosen One, not Luke. It is Vader not Luke that destroys the Sith

 

Precisely. Luke's the catalyst. The enzyme to Anakin's protein, baby .

 

But is it me or do people hold on to this notion that because Luke helps redeem vader that somehow he (Luke) is the chosen one?

 

Nah I think we all agree that ultimately Anakin is the "Chosen One"

Luke confuses people in regards to the prophecy because HE "seems" to be the one who makes it come true himself.....based on episodes 4-6

But like Master EWOKTHATCRIED said earlier.......if you watch all 6 films in order......you clearly see that it was Anakin all along.

 

the best one i've heard says that Luke is the balance that Anakin brings to the force.

 

I remain somewhat unconvinced that Vader was The Chosen One, rather than Luke. I mean that, alone, each would have been powerless against the Emperor. Luke is as responsible for the demise of the Sith as Vader is, IMO. That would make them both Chosen Ones.

I could go around and around with this as it's almost a "six of one, half dozen of another" argument.

 

Well then, you might as well say that Luke is the balance that Padme brings to the Force.

 

im not sure if i even agree with it, but it good from a literary sense

 

The two Star Wars trilogies share many characters but have different structures. Instead of telling another heroic coming-of-age story, Lucas has crafted the prequels a historical drama, at whose center is Anakin Skywalker. His story is tragic; that of the Republic-turned-Empire, uncomfortably familiar. Anakin begins as a nine-year-old boy who is physically enslaved. He ends the prequel saga a spiritual and mental slave to the Emperor, who is his metaphorical if not biological father....

But the end of Revenge of the Sith is not the end of Anakin, whose story really closes when it merges with those of his children, Luke and Leia, in Return of the Jedi.

"It really has to do with learning," Lucas says, "Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can't be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he's caused. He doesn't right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the Saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I've grown to love- primarily the Emperor- and throw away my life, to save this person. And I'm doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I've done. I broke his mother's heart, but he still cares about me, and I can't let that die. Anakin is very different in the end. The thing of it is: The prophecy was right. Anakin was the chosen one, and he does bring balance to the Force. He takes the one ounce of good still left in him and destroys the Emperor out of compassion for his son."

Anakin Skywalker's final confrontation with the Emperor occurs during Luke's final confrontation with the Emperor, which compliments his father's dealings with the same man many years earlier, Indeed the life of the father and the life of the son are commentaries on each other.

"The Star Wars saga is like a symphony, which has recurring themes," he adds, "You have one theme orchestrated in a particular way and place, which then comes back orchestrated as a minor theme somewhere else. There are these little threads running through things that are constantly turning events on their head. You see two people confronting the same things, with different ends. It's a rhythm. I like the idea of seeing something from a different perspective. An advantage I have in this particular situation is that I have literally twelve hours to tell a story. It has the epic quality of following one person from the time he's nine years old to the time he dies. It's Anakin's story, but obviously there are many other characters in that story- his children, his best friend- and their stories carry through. So this isn't just a tune- it's a symphony. When you do it as a symphony, I think it actually becomes beautiful."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221

"If you see them in order it completely twists things about. A lot of the tricks of IV, V and VI no longer exist. The real struggle of the twins to save their father becomes apparent, whereas it didn't exist at all the first time [audiences saw Episodes IV, V and VI]. Now Darth Vader is a tragic character who's lost everything. He's basically a bitter old man in a suit."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith.

"The series was really about Darth Vader. People thought that it was about Luke, but it's not and never was. People would ask me back then, what's it all about? I said, 'It's about Darth Vader.'"

--George Lucas, Static Multimedia Interview; 2005.

 

We need to look at the saga as a whole and not in terms of OT first then PT.

Lucas is creating ambiguity in ROTS regarding Anakin's true origin and the validity of the prophecy to cause viewers to question whether Anakin is the Chosen One or if the Jedi were wrong all along.

At the end of the saga, the viewer comes to find out that the prophecy is correct, Anakin is the Chosen One, and was created by the midichlorians, not the Sith, to bring balance to the Force.

So don't look at ROTS as the film that trumps ROTJ. Everything ROTS has you believe about Anakin - that he was a Sith creation and not the Chosen One, turns out to be false when ROTJ shows him fulfill the prophesized role of Chosen One.

Those experiencing the films I-VI will be left in doubt about Anakin/Vader, maybe even believing the Jedi were wrong and that Luke was the "new" Chosen One. They will be surprised when Vader makes his final turn back to the good side, fulfilling the prophecy.

It's all about the development of the story as a whole and not about undoing the OT.

Excellent point. Im not gonna say that Anakin wasnt created by the Sith -I can see why it may be the case and how and why it happened. But I think EWOK makes a great point here. Its difficult for us old generation star wars fans to be objective sometimes and see the intentions of GL. I can see now that if you are a new fan of star wars and are watching them from I-VI then having the idea in your mind that Anakin was created by the sith, thinking that the prophecy may be false and not knowing what side Anakin may bring balance to would be a great way of setting up the OT and keeping a few surprises.

Nice post Ewokthatcried.

 

I still like the idea of Darth Sidious creating his own destructor via the will of the force. It adds so much depth to the saga. It makes you think about Palpatine's master plan during the Phantom Menace. Did he forsee the Queen and company landing on Tatooine? Did he truly expect Darth Maul to die? If he created Anakin Skywalker, then he most likely kept tabs on Shmi Skywalker throughout her life. Thus the Tusken kidnapping was probably set up by Sidious. Explaining the timing of events in AOTC and how perfect it was to suggest Anakin and Obi-Wan for the job of protecting the Senator so that the two could eventually be split up.

Of course that plan does leave an awful lot to chance. But then again creating a being as strong in the force as Anakin may guarantee his survival throughout the years until the plan is ready to take action.

It's clear George didn't have this plot in mind when he wrote the other five films though I'm sure while writing he pondered the idea of "what if the Emperor is Luke's grandpa?"

It really adds to the end of ROTS though. I mean Sidious was trying to save a 20 plus year experiment.

 

I kinda think so too Hooklineandsinker.

For me it makes sense as it would be down to the will of the force without the force taking away peoples choices.

For instance it gave the sith the knowledge how to create anakin - they chose to use it.

It gave Qui Gon the choice whether to take Anakin away - he chose to do it.

The Force is always looking for a balance. But it cant take away free will. Instead it lays down paths and offers individuals choices. If they make the wrong choice then the balance will slip further. If they make the right choice then balance will be brought.

The Jedi - want the more desirable balance - More good than evil = Peace.

The Force - want an even balance. Dont favour Sith or Jedi. Good and evil co-exist.

The Sith - want to destroy the balance - far more evil than good = more power for them.

 

I THINK ANAKIN WAS CREATED BY THE DARKSIDE AND HERES WHY!

After Anakin attacked Mace and gave Palpatine the chance kill him he told Anakin he was fofilling his destiny.

Mace and Yoda were unsure the tale that he was the CHOOSE ONE may have been a lie.

I think the myth of the Choose One was created by ancient Sith that belived or could see the future that a boy would be born of the medaclorins and he would bring a end to the Jedi order.

They had to make sure that this came to be so they made changes to make sure this child would live. When Palpatine learned of the truth of this from his fromer Master and later learned of Anakins birth he new he had to do all he could to shape he path to make sure he fofilled his destiny in the way that the Jedi had no idea about.

What do you all think?

 

Palpatine's just feeding him a bunch of crap. He's saying that Anakin's fulfilling his destiny of becoming the most powerful being alive.

 

This might not have anything to do with his origins, but instead of creating another thread I'll just ask the question here.

Where was Anakin's apartment at??

If he lived at the jedi temple, wouldnt other jedi get curious about him not ever being in his room?

I mean he slept at Padme's so didnt the jedi ever wonder where he was spending his nights, especially since this is a time of war and traitors are popping up left and right?

 

That was Padme's apartment. I can't recall if she's living in 500 Galactica or not. I know that Palpatine and his cabinet do. Anyway, Anakin can come a go without raising questions. I doubt the Jedi do bed checks of the Knights and Masters. Just the Padawans.

 

Yeah well I picture their temple being something like the X-Men's mansion....y'know people living right down the hall from one another, and if that's the case, I find it hard to believe that nobody noticed that Anakin was hardly ever sleeping his bed.

 

I don't think people pay that much attention. Otherwise he would've been, you know, busted before the first year of the Clone Wars ended.

 

On the DVD commentary, Rick McCallum mentions that the Opera scene is partly about Anakins origins (referring to the creating life bit).

So its clear his view hasnt changed.

Is this the primary idea now - Anakin was created by the Sith?

 

^^^

Im surprised no one is talking about this.

McCallum said he would discuss the matter with GL before the commenary was done (hyperspace celeb chat) and it seems he was allowed to carry his own opinion on to the DVD commentary.

A thought? Anyone?

 

It's weird. I thought after ROTS, everyone would accept Anakin's origins without any doubt. But instead, it confused things even more!

My ideas:
1.) The Force used the Sith to create Anakin. So both views are correct, from a certain point of view.
2.) The Force did create Anakin, on its own. Plagueis created Sidious, the ultimate Sith, by influencing midichlorians to create life.

 

I can't believe this thread is still around...

[image=http://matrix.thescarymonkeyshow.com/images/baby.jpg]
^^^MONKEY!!!

 

Shmi brought balance to the Force. nuff said.

 

"2.) The Force did create Anakin, on its own. Plagueis created Sidious, the ultimate Sith, by influencing midichlorians to create life"

woah. i thought that i was the only person who thought that might be possible and didn't post it for fear of flaming. good job dude!

 

I just listened to the commentary on ROTS and was surprised to hear Rick say that the Opera(zero gravity water ballet) scene discusses the orgins of Anakin. I think this supports the idea that Anakin was created by Plagueis. Lucas may have wanted to leave this concept open for discussion but I think Rick let the truth slip.