*OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Croco, Aug 16, 2002.

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  1. Force-Keeper Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2004
    star 5
    Well, unfortunately, even Rick doesn?t know the truth of Anakin?s origins. Only George does and he?s leaving it up to us to decide what the best theory is. I still say the Force created him, not some crazy Sith who could manipulate the Midi?s and create life.
  2. CyberTEA-201 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 20, 2004
    i disagree Force-Keeper. Yes I bumped this up to get people talking about this subject. Sorry
  3. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    I read a brilliant blog at the official site that I believe clearly explain's Anakin's origins. The writter pretty much looks at things the way I do.

    http://blogs.starwars.com/JediShemL/1

    The thing that should have been brought up in the blog is Palpatine lying about what Plagueis knew. Basically Palpatine said that Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew, and then said that only Plagueis knew the power, but if he and Anakin work together, they could discover the secret.
  4. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    read a brilliant blog at the official site that I believe clearly explain's Anakin's origins. The writter pretty much looks at things the way I do.

    Yes, I agree, its a good blog. Because of Darth Mauls age, Plageius had to have been dead for maybe 15 years before Anakin was born.
  5. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    thanks a bunch. a good find and a better read. this is pretty tough to refute by using available info
  6. MariahJSkywalker Poopoo Head

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2005
    star 6

    Makes sense to me. If Sidious was Anakin's father, wouldn't it be revealed to us since the saga is now complete. I believe he was created from the force, any not from any person.
  7. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    For all we know, Sidious said that just to get Anakin's attention and open his mind to the Dark Side of the Force. You do realize that Sith Lords will use lies and deceit to get what they want. Clearly Sidious did read Anakin's mind about Padme, and revealed that he knew that to Anakin when he was trying to recruit him to the Dark Side.

    This is the part of the blog where I thought the author should have added that Sidious said that Plagueis knew the power of the of keep people from dying, then taught everything to his apprentice, and later said that only Plagueis knew the power. The inconsistants to all that proves that Sidious was just lying to manipulate Anakin. Anakin didn't realize at the time that Sidious read his mind about his concerns and used that tall tale to get Anakin's attention and open his mind to the Dark Side.

    "Something is happening to me. I'm not the Jedi I should be. I want more, but I know I shouldn't."

    That quote by Anakin was after the opera scene, but before Sidious tried to recruit him. Maybe it's true that Plagueis knew the power and Sidious didn't. But Plagueis died well before Anakin's birth.
  8. emporergerner Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 6, 2005
    star 4
    Darth Plaigues could have very well known how to create life. In my opinion he did and in my Opinion he created Anakin. This is why I think Palpatine did'nt know it, this is just my whcky opinion so here it goes.

    I think that Plaigues created and Apprentice, but not who he impregnated or on what Planet, and at the same time created the Prophesized chosen one of the Jedi. I think he told Palpatine that in due time they would find. Him so years pass and Palpatine doesn't really belive him and kills him. Palpatine finds Darth Maul and trains him. Then after Darth Maul gets killed on Naboo he meets Anakin for the First time and hears about how he' s supposably the chosen one, the one with the Immaculate birth with no father. At the same time he senses the fear from the young boy. Remember what Palpatine said to Anakin on Nabbo.I'm dont think this is exactly it, but close enough. " Young Skywalker we shall watch your career with great interest." With his evil Smile.

    Well thats my opinion.




    Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith
  9. leia1964 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2005
    star 1
    I am in the group that does believe that Plagueis and Sidious created Anakin. The blog is a very good one, I read it when it came out along with many other that both refuted and agreed with the Sith creation story line. I have written many replies on several different threads stating why I think he was created by the Sith and why I think its a great arch to the story, but here I think I'll just mention one aspect of my opinion...

    I've read several (make that nearly hundreds) of replies that state something like this '...the Sith tell lies to gain power, etc. so Palpatine/Sidious is just lying to Anakin to get him into his corner...' To me this sounds like it could be the "justification" for lots of things we don't want to believe. Example: When I saw TESB and found out Vader was Luke's father I remember talking with my SW fan-friends about it and everyone was like "...he's just lying, just to get Luke to join the dark side..." and "...Vader's a really bad guy, they lie all the time, you can't believe anything he says..." Sound familiar? At the end of TESB, did we really know Darth Vader was, without a doubt, Luke's father? No. We had to wait for RotJ to find out for sure. But, let's say RotJ never happened (just stay with me), Lucas put that infamous line in TESB for a very good reason, to let the audience know something vitally important... that Darth Vader was indeed Luke's father. He puts these things in his movies for a reason; number one, to make us think (this thread proves that works) and two, to inform us of what is really happening with the characters. I can't think of another time in the Saga that a main character has outright lied about a very important byline to the story. (And the whole Obi Wan telling things from "a certain point of view..." doesn't count; I think Lucas had to back step after ANH so that's how he fixed things.) Also, if Plagueis and Sidious didn't create Anakin, why doesn't Lucas just come right out and say it? He has adamantly told us that Anakin IS the Chosen One, he wanted to make that very clear to the fans; so why not just tell us "no, they didn't create him, Sidious is a liar, the Force alone created him". I think because he wants us to believe the Sith created him and this is somewhat, although vaguely, confirmed by RM in the Commentary.

    The blog stated that there was no where else to go in the SW story as far as movies are concerned that would inform us of the Anakin's true origins; I disagree. I think Lucas can go back further and tell us the story of Plagueis and Sidious.

    IMO Plagueis and Sidious created Anakin together. This is why Sidious tells Anakin that if they work "together" they could make it happen. Also, the will of the Force DOES still exist within the Sith creation theory; the Sith created Anakin thinking they would use the Jedi prophecy against them, but in turn the 'will of Force' steps in and uses their own creation to destroy them, thus Anakin remained the Chosen One through the whole ordeal and DID bring balance to the force by destroying both Sidious and himself. Just my opinion though.
  10. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    I think that Plaigues created and Apprentice, but not who he impregnated or on what Planet, and at the same time created the Prophesized chosen one of the Jedi. I think he told Palpatine that in due time they would find. Him so years pass and Palpatine doesn't really belive him and kills him. Palpatine finds Darth Maul and trains him. Then after Darth Maul gets killed on Naboo he meets Anakin for the First time and hears about how he' s supposably the chosen one, the one with the Immaculate birth with no father.

    Everything written here is a theory based on what is wanted, rather than facts. Plagueis died and Anakin was born 15 years later. Your theory doesn't make sense.
  11. CuppaJoe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 4
    Can somebody please find that scene from the rough draft where Palpatine tells Anakin he created Anakin? I've been trying to find that..
  12. Sauron_18 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2005
    star 4
    Palpatine never said and will never say that to Anakin.

    Look:
    1)It was Plagueis who was doing these experiments.
    2)Whether its true or not, we'll never know, at least not in a long time, hey, its been like 25 years and we've never seen a Jawa without a cloak, so, there GL for you....
  13. CuppaJoe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 4
    It was a dropped concept in one of the rough drafts.
  14. Lumpawarrump Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2001
    star 1
    It's implied very strongly.

    I agree with Leia1964, though it seems to me that Sidious probably manipulated the midi's alone. Very possibly with the help of a crystal. I think he killed Plagueis once he learned this skill.

    Palpatine may or may not have known the full skill of cheating death. Possibly he really did need someone of Anakin's power to discover it. Either way he was fooling Anakin about this skill, and of course never had any intention of helping him save Padme.

    The ability to create life is another skill entirely, and a secret that Sidious uses more as elusive leverage over his prize apprentice.
  15. CuppaJoe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 4
    I'm looking for that scene in the rough draft where Palpatine says to Anakin...

    "You could look at me as...a father."
  16. Lumpawarrump Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2001
    star 1
    I just found this in another thread:

    This is taken from Page 42 of the Making of Revenge of the Sith book, which contains storyline and dialogue from George Lucas' rough draft of the script....

    "On Coruscant, PALPATINE completes his seduction of ANAKIN, who at first refuses to go over to the dark side-- until the Chancellor makes a startling confession:

    DARTH SIDIOUS
    I have waited all these years for you to fulfill your destiny... I arranged for your conception. I used the power of the Force to will the midichlorians to start the cell divisions that created you.

    ANAKIN
    I don't believe you.

    DARTH SIDIOUS
    Ahhh, but you know it's true. When you clear your mind, you will sense the truth. You could almost think of me as your father.

    ANAKIN
    That's impossible!

    DARTH SIDIOUS
    Nevertheless, you must decide."
  17. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    Notice it wasn't in the film? There is a good reason for that.
  18. Master_Shaitan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 2004
    star 5
    Joseph: Pellagius in the fourth century was either a Welshman or an Irishman, I think. He upheld the individualistic Western tradition against what I would call the tribalism of the East, and was considered a heretic. He stated the main points against the doctrines of which St. Augustine, his contemporary, was the champion. One was the doctrine of original sin. Pellagius said, you cannot inherit another's sin. Therefore, Adam's sin is not inherited by anybody.

    Tom: The sins of the father are not visited upon the son?

    Joseph: That is all Eastern philosophy, not European. Another thing Pellagius said is that you cannot be saved by another's act. That takes care of Jesus on the cross and knocks the whole thing out. Of course that was rejected. Pellagius was defending a doctrine of individual responsibility. I don't know where it comes from, but certainly it was typical, I would say, of European as opposed to Eastern points of view. You were an individual, not merely the member of a group.


    Interview with Joseph Campbell.

    Anyone find certain aspects of this interview interesting?

    Pellagius...or is that Plagueis?!
  19. mandragora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    I don't understand where he's coming from with this. While it's true that Eastern philosophy tends to focus on the individual more as a member of a group than Western individualism, that doesn't mean there isn't ascribed a very high importance on individual responsibility. There's nothing in Fart Eastern philosophy I can think of that suggests you can be saved by another's act. In fact, the whole Karma issue is about having to bear the consequences of one's own actions and is entirely about individual responsibility.
  20. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
  21. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    regarding this cited post:\ http://blogs.starwars.com/JediShemL/1


    i so agree with this concept ......(root word - conceive) -
    it's important, at least to me and my embrace of what star wars means to me, to believe in the goodness of the spirituality that george lucas, in a very intentional, deliberate, enlightened and educational process, chose to incorporate into his myth for the 20th and 21st century. anakin, the chosen one, was born of the need to return to the light, to the good, to the truth.

    and that's why i love this story so.


    LL
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Well, I would tell this person that had Lucas not changed his mind, Palpatine created Anakin and that would've been that. It doesn't matter where Anakin comes from. He's still the Chosen One.

    "There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

    --George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.


    The official stance seems to be that Plagueis told Sidious that he could create life and cheat death. This scared Sidious as he feared that Plaugeis would replace him. Sidious then killed Plaguies. Maul was already being trained at the time. When Sidious learns of Anakin following the Battle of Naboo, it's very clear that he wants him to replace Maul in the long run. What's not certain is if Palpatine decided to create Anakin or if Plagueis had set it in motion, which took a while to occur. Or if the Force chose to go to work, ten years prior to the Battle of Naboo.

    But had Lucas kept to his initial story, there would be no room for doubt that Palpatine didn't create Anakin. He opted to change it for reasons that are only vaguely clear. Not saying that your belief has to be wrong. There is no right or wrong answer regarding Anakin's origin, unless or until Lucas spills it and thus makes it official
  23. Dean1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2005
    star 1
    "Everything written here is a theory based on what is wanted, rather than facts. Plagueis died and Anakin was born 15 years later. Your theory doesn't make sense"

    No it makes much more sense to suggest that the force just . . . created him!

    Plaguis could have died 50 years before Anakin was born - still doesn't mean that Anakin was therefore only created through the "will of the force". Who says that it was Plagueis that created him anyway. From my recollections the film just states that Plagueis simply learned the secret to create life. This alone allows us to consider that it is possible in this GFFA for a child to be born without the bonding of a male & female in the usual way - and not through the "will of the force".

    As Sinister stated maybe creating life in this kind of way takes a little time. Maybe it takes 15 years for the energies, or the midichlorians - or whatever to bond to start the process of actual conception. Who knows?

    Another theory could be that Sidious tried to create life 10 years before the Naboo Battle in the way Plagueis had trained him. Even using the force and all the dark powers at his command he is unsuccessful - seemingly - however, on a desert planet not too far from Naboo a child is unexplainably conceived. 10 years later Sidious hears about this child who has apparently been immaculately conceived - from a neighbouring system. He puts two & two together and decides he will watch over him with "great interest!"

    I realise that this is all just speculation and conjecture but at the same time I find it more logical to beleive that something like this may have happened as opposed to the pure "will of the force"!

    : )
  24. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Precisely. That's how the bios for the three characters are written, more or less.
  25. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I personally think Plagueis created Anakin. And the reason why he did it is because he either sensed, or discovered through other means, that Sidious had betrayed him by training an apprentice who would later become Darth Maul. It doesn't say anywhere when Darth Maul had been found, and trained, or even how old he is other than the fact he was young when he died. Plagueis sensed betrayal and he acted, using the knowledge he alone had obtained. Because Sidious had also discovered his master's knowledge of his plan to usurp him, and his jealousy of his master's power to manipulate life, he decided to murder him before his apprentice was ready. I also think Plageuis created Palpatine, which was his first succeeded attempt at creating life.
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