*OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Croco, Aug 16, 2002.

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  1. ravennomad Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2006
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    No one is quite sure how Darth Sidious came across his young and deadly apprentice. He was raised from an early age to be a weapon, tempered by harsh, abusive training to become an incredible warrior. Once a Zabrak from Iridonia, Maul abandoned all trace of his former identity when he took on his Sith name. So complete was his devotion that he even endured the agony of having intricate Sith tattoos applied to his entire body.
    In the interests of concealing the Sith presence from the Jedi, all of Maul's missions were executed from the shadows. Though Maul longed to reveal the Sith menace to the Jedi, his devotion to his master was absolute so as not to question Sidious' timing. Maul had assassinated a number of enemies whose activities encroached on the growing Sith agenda. The dark warrior even infiltrated the heart of the galaxy's biggest criminal organization, Black Sun, killed, and escaped unscathed.

    Maul had a wide array of tools to help him in his missions. His Sith Infiltrator is a modified star courier vessel equipped with a cloaking device. His Sith speeder is lean and unarmed, pared down to the bare essentials to deliver maximum speed. In the past, he has even employed a modified protocol droid as an assassin, C-3PX.


    I think Darth Plagueis Forsaw his death and maybe planned on killing Palpatine but Palpatine beat him to the punch and killed Plagueis, Maybe Palpatine saw Plagueis use the force to create life in Shmi Skywalker and decided to take action....but i do believe either Sidious or Plagueis created Life who became Anakin Skywalker, lets not forget though Dooku trained GG in the ways of the Force and trained Asajj Ventress as well so i think there might have been exceptions to the rule, also maybe Palpatine needed a full grown Sith for reasons such as killing Jedi and doing these secret missions, Maybe Palpatine would have killed Maul or at least set him up to die much like he did for Dooku.....
    "We will watch your career with great interest"
  2. ravennomad Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2006
    star 1
    I got this from Wikipedia.com
    has been suggested in Vader: The Ultimate Guide that Plagueis, in his experimentation with the Force, created Anakin Skywalker in the womb of his mother, Shmi. According to Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology, Darth Plagueis indeed knew how to create life, and sought to create a replacement for his apprentice, Darth Sidious. In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, it is revealed that Sidious did not learn Plagueis's secret for the creation of life; and alternatively to the aforementioned sources, Sidious muses that Anakin is the "one created by the Force itself to restore balance".
  3. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    To also elaborate on my story a bit more, after Plagueis discovers Sidious's betrayal, he looked for a good host to create a child. He needed someone somewhat strong in the force, but too old and lacking in ambition to be of any use to anyone. So he chose Shmi, a slave retainer of his, to be the bearer of this child. And after he created the spawn inside Shmi without her knowing about it, he sold her to the Hutt, Gardulla, to stay hidden from his apprentice and would be assassin, Darth Sidious. See, the whole prophecy that the jedi forsaw states what happens at the end, and not how he, or she, would come to be. So I would say it's safe to think that the jedi were ignorant of what was to come, which for them was in a good way, and that the machinations of Plagueis would happen in a way that would destroy themselves "the sith" is what they were not aware of. The whole prophecy was misread. Plagueis' knowledge to create life was a plague that he alone had unleashed which would effect all beings, and not just the Jedi, but the sith as well. In other words, the sith were the ones who created the prophecy through no desire, or awareness of their own, and at the end it doomed them.
  4. RamRed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    I get the feeling that either many fans were uncomfortable with Shmi's description of how Anakin was born, because it seemed similar to Jesus Christ's origins . . . or else they're using this whole "Plageuis created Anakin" nonsense as an excuse to explain Anakin's turn to the dark side. It seems as if they cannot deal with the possibility of an innocent boy becoming a Sith Lord. So they grab at an idea that would hint that Anakin might have an inherent disposition toward darkness. I find it interesting that these fans have never considered the possibility that Sidious may have been LYING to Anakin about using the Force to create life or stop death, in order to gain an ally.

    In the end, it seems as if many fans still cannot comprehend or accept the idea that Anakin represents a moral ambiguity in all beings.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Some people just don't like Midichlorians and the fact that he could be created by the Force. Others feel that it would be better if he was created by the Sith, as then he would have a father instead of just the Force. In the end, his origins are vague and ultimately don't matter. He is the Chosen One regardless of being created by the Force or by the Sith.
  6. darthbobvilla Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2006
    anyway they locked my thread i guess because they have too many on this one but for those who did not read here is my theory...


    But looking back and trying to peace the puzzle of sidious is making me think.

    First of : Fact anakin is luke's father so why not Palpatine be anakin's father?

    Sidious in the theater revealed that darth plagius had learned the ways of manipulating the midi clorians to do almost anything ( sorry if bad named) and that he tought everything to his pupil...Wich obviously looks to be palpatine...

    Palpatine's plan could have been like this.

    Impregnate Shmi without her knowing it or knowing it...the true way of anakin came ot be his unknown to me but i suspect that palpatine did it somehow.

    Boy is made and born. Phase one of palpatine's plan done.

    Palpatine's gets a little war going on on naboo...phase 2

    Qui gonn lands on tatoiine and finds anakin and starts to want him to become a jedi...Phase 3

    Qui gonn brings anakin back and you know the rest phase 4 and so on...

    I think that palpatine scheme is real big and well planned and it took a lot of time for him but in the end well it worked and then backfired in his face at the end of ROTJ...

    Palpatine plans were to make his little mole come in and destroy everything while the jedis were too busy dealing with anakin and his situations and the clone wars palpatine had started he had less chances of being discovered...

    That is the only logical explanation going on i think.

    It's all one big family story where the father abuses the child and corrupts him to no end...kinda sad...

    I would have seen things in a different way maybe...but the prequel movies were very political and mimic todays society so it is easy to see the big picture in the end...

  7. DarthWolvo23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
    exactly

    i now believe it was plagueis that created anakin

    sidious learned of this and killed his master before he was replaced

    note - sidious didnt learn the power or know where anakin was created

    he recognised anakin was his masters creation after the battle of naboo

    he believes anakin is so powerful one day he will help sidious attain immortal status as his master had


    its poetic in a way - the prophecy was right - anakin did destroy the sith, and it was the siths desire for ultimate power (the power over life) that was their undoing

    anakin was the imbalance in the force - the prophecy is true when he accepts death
  8. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I think there's such a thing as TOO much coincidence, I mean we already have a hell of alot. Yes, we all know how powerful Palpatine is, and what an insanely evil, manipulative genius he is. He orchestrated the entire war, exploited the internal weaknesses of the Jedi, and did it all directly under everyone's nose. It's almost the perfect plan, but in *every* plan there are curveballs, why can't Anakin just be that? Palpatine singles him out from Day 1 as a tool. The Chosen One fell into his lap and he exploited it. It really makes you good when you use the unexpected to your advantage, rather than having it all planned out neatly in advance.
  9. JediPI323 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2006
    star 1
    Anakin does have a father, in my version of the prequels. Hear me out?
    1. 15 years b4 EP1 a jedi landed on Tatooine and in a moment of weakness had relations with Shmi who was at this time a slave of Watto.
    2. Shmi never sees the Jedi again after that night and nine months later she gives birth to a baby boy. She names the baby Anakin after her father and Skywalker after the name of the Jedi's ship. Jedi's on secret missions often traveled under assumed names.
    3. The boy grows up the property of Watto, begins to work in his shop and at the age of 8 is introduced to pod racing.
    4. At the age of ten Anakin and his mom are purchased by cliegs Lars who then marries Anakin's mom. Cliegs already has a son from a previous marriage who is named Owen. The two boys grow up together and their relationship is often contentious. They have frequent debates over the fate of Tatooine and the galaxy hence old Obi-Wan's words to Luke that "Your uncle thought that he should have stayed here and not gotten involved. It is on the farm that young Jedi Obi-Wan finds Anakin.
  10. sick_sith_girl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2005
    star 1
    I had always thought Anakin was from Tatooine... [face_thinking] :confused:
  11. Darth_Mongoulus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2005
    star 1

    Your version? Excuse me? We're here to disscuss grey areas of the Saga that actually exists, not contrived fantasies of what you think the prequals should have been.

    Sorry about that. That kind of thing always gets me a little wound up. Didn't mean it as a personal attack.

    Back on topic, I think it's more in keeping with Anakin's Messaih character that he was a product of the Force alone (with Shmi helping out of course). Still the idea of a mysterious, possibly god-like being creating Anakin for nefarious purposes is very intrigueing. So I guess I'm between worlds on the issue.
  12. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Anakin says he's lived on Tatooine since he was "very little", so there's some room for speculation that he actually wasn't born there, or that he lived somewhere else.


    And yes, this thread is to discuss Anakin's origins as they might be within the context of the films and established EU. No "I think it should have been like this" type stuff please.
  13. JediPI323 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2006
    star 1
    No problem. I thought we could discuss all aspects of the PT here. The PT have never measured up in my eyes when compared with the OT. I just hope that when GL's kids or someone else remake the prequels they give the story of Anakin Skywalker the treatment it so richly deserves.
  14. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Well, that has a zero chance of happening. Lucas took care of the rights to the films a good while back. He made sure that even after he is dead, no one, will do anything to the films that he doesn't want done. No one will be doing a remake. Not even his children.

    As to the story content, from the mouth of Lucas.

    "Right or wrong this is my movie, this is my decision, and this is my creative vision, and if people don't like it, they don't have to see it."

    --George Lucas

    "The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way, which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way."

    --George Lucas

    "...some of the people had a hard time with the reason that Anakin goes bad. Somebody asked whether somebody could kill Anakin's best friend, so that he really gets angry. They wanted a real betrayal, such as, "You tried to kill me so now I'm going to try and kill you." They didn't seem to understand the fact that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine. It doesn't have much to do with Darth Vader; he's a pawn in the whole scheme....

    So I had to ask myself, what was I trying to say and didn't I say it? Did it just get missed or it is it not there? I had to look at it very hard. I had to ask myself, Is this how the audience is going to react? Fortunately, Steven confirmed that most of everything was working. So I may lose a certain demographic - maybe, maybe not. But I had to make a decision, and I decided that I'm not going to alter the film to make it more commercial or marketable. I have to be true to my vision, which is 30 years old, but I have to be true to it."

    --George Lucas, The Making of ROTS, page 188.

    "Oh, it always hurts. It hurts a great deal. But part of making movies is you get attacked, and sometimes in very personal ways," says Lucas. "The point is, like if you paint your house white and somebody comes over, 'Well that should be a green house.' Well, fine, but I wanted to paint it white. I don?t think there was anything wrong with painting it white. I don?t think there?s anything wrong with me for painting it white. Maybe it should be a green house, but I didn?t want it to be a green house. I wanted it to be a white house.?

    --George Lucas, 60 Minutes Interview 2005.
  15. pakatak Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2002
    star 1
    ok, so I buy into the sith creating anakin. However They couldn't control what he was, the type of person he became. It occured on tattooine because it was so out of the way he wouldn't likely be found. ALso tatooine is a rough area. I think whatever darth it was hoped that anakin would gain some of the charecteristics of the people he was around, the hutts, watto, sebulba, and the like.

    Anyways, quigon finding anakin was the will of the force, in an effort to keep in balance, so the jedi could train him before the sith lord got him. Why didn't teh sith have him from the beginging? Can you imagine palpatine wanting to put up with all the problems of being a father, even changing the diapers via the force still stinks, also he would have been identified by the republic as force sensitive.
  16. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That's what protocol and nanny droids are for. ;)
  17. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Having more midichlorians than Yoda is not the same as an "inherent disposition toward darkness". The dark side involves a choice. It's not a magic voodoo curse you can lay on a child. I think one reason GL refrained from definitively saying the Sith created Anakin is because he noticed people making the assumption that such an event would absolve Anakin of his future choices. In the Rolling Stone interview GL makes it clear that's not the way it is.

    Anyone who "cannot deal with the possibility of an innocent boy becoming a Sith Lord" must have missed a couple of films entitled "THE PHANTOM MENACE" and "REVENGE OF THE SITH". That is the story. Anakin's origin, though it helps to explain certain things in TPM, does not change this.
  18. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Up for current discussion
  19. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    I see four possible alternatives for Anakin's origins:

    1) The 'light side' of the force reached out and touched Shmi to conceived him.
    2) The Sith (that being Plagueis), using the dark side, manipulated the force to conceive him.
    3) Natural conception, but Shmi is unable to remember who, when or why.
    4) Natural conception, and Shmi knows who but is not telling

    I'm partial to a 'dark horse' explanation -- #3. Prove me wrong!!!!! [face_whistling]
  20. AL_Patterson Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2007
    star 2
    If we had just seen the PT and the OT had yet to be made, I bet most people would say #2, including myself. But we have the OT, and we know that Anakin ends up balancing the force and fulfilling the prophecy, therefore I doubt a Sith created him.

    I'm inclined to say #4, she told Qui-Gon that lie because she slept with so many men. :p
  21. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    So we're working on Shmi, the seductive slave tramp -- no way of knowing WHO Ani's father might be?????? [face_shhh]
  22. AL_Patterson Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2007
    star 2
    She should have gone to Mo-Rai Pul-Vich
  23. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    I say #3 because Shmi acts nervous about the boy. It is mentioned earlier in this resurrected thread that as a slave, Shmi could have been impregnated when her tracking device was 'installed' or during any other time her master wished. She was a slave -- she had to obey. By being unconscious, Shmi doesn't remember having any fun in the process.

    QUI-GON : The Force is unusally strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?

    SHMI : There was no father, that I know of...I carried him, I gave him birth... I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?

    These are not definitive words, but provide a possible 'hint' that Shmi does not totally abandon the idea that there 'could have been' a father. Of course Qui-Gon could likely sense if she were lying, so my take is that Shmi just could not remember. Shmi definitely rules out a 'religious-type revelation' that she is mystically pregnant. She just is, and can't say how or why!

  24. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I know a lot of people don't want to put stock in Lucas' quotes, but he has said the following.

    "There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

    --George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.



    So it really doesn't matter if the Sith created him, he still brings balance.


    Actually, she doesn't rule out a "religious-type revelation". Religion isn't really a factor in Star Wars, except for the Force and that's if you view it as a religion. While Lucas did not go into details as to whether Shmi knew if she had her virginity intact or not, it's safe to assume from the film that this was totally mystifying for her. I think we can trace it to either the Force or the Sith. I just don't see a point in options three and four, since neither one is ever explored or even suggested. They don't change who Anakin is and what he does, but to me, they don't go anywhere that the first two do.
  25. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    She does not say "that I know of." She only says "There was no father. I carried him..."
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