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*OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Turn to the Darkside.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by That_Wascally_Droid, Dec 21, 2002.

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  1. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

    Jul 29, 2001
    We've been seeing a lot of threads dealing with the specifics of Anakin's turn to the darkside. But so far, we haven't had one solide hub of discussion, quick theories, questions, and debates.
    So, I give you guys an official thread for such discussion. Before creating your own thread for your own theory, ask yourself if it could go in here :)
  2. shinjo_jedi

    shinjo_jedi Jedi Master star 5

    May 21, 2002
    Wonderful Thread :) First Post :D

    Personally, I think his change to the dark side will have something to do with the death of Padme, and Darth Sidious plotting something for Anakin to turn against the Jedi Council. Well, just my breif thoughts...
  3. Darth_Howell_III

    Darth_Howell_III Jedi Padawan star 4

    Sep 12, 2002
    Padme dies, or is dying.

    Anakin wants to "learn to stop her from dying."

    He looks to the Dark Side for information on "how to do it."

    He will see a first-hand demonstration of a "Force Ghost," namely, Sifo-Dyas, come back "from the dead."

    He embraces the Dark Side.


  4. JediMasterEllic_Kier

    JediMasterEllic_Kier Jedi Master star 3

    Nov 17, 2002

    Not saying this is a theory, just a thought I had the other day. If we assume that Anakin will be away, fighting in the Clone Wars, what will Padme be doing. Staying in the Senate, and fighting things out politically. We've seen that she is close to Bail Organa (they are both on the Loyalist commitee).
    What if over the years, Bail and Padme have developed a "close" relationship. Anakin, returning, finds out or notices. Jealousy gets the best of him. I'm not saying Padme and Bail DO anything together. Just that they are very close.
    We've seen anger, hate, revenge, and resentment in Anakin, but have we seen Jealousy yet. He seems to get uneasy when Padme is talking about her first boyfriend. If he sees Padme in a close relationship with another political type...who knows.

    What is more hurtful but betrayal by the one you love! I know when a past girlfriend of mine cheated on me, I wanted to turn everything around me to dust.

  5. Grilled-Sarlacc

    Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jul 19, 2001
    I concur with Darth_Howell_III.

    My view at this point is that Padmé dies and Anakin again failed to stop it. Anakin will blame the "slow" Jedi teachings (and Obi-Wan specifically) for holding him back from his true potential - a potential the Chancellor told him about.

    Anakin witnessed how much power the dark side can offer with Dooku. Anakin will seek out that power, a power he will believe he could have used to save his mother...and his wife.
  6. OldieVonMoldie

    OldieVonMoldie Jedi Master star 3

    Dec 23, 2001
    One of the most popular theories (as pointed out by Grilled-Sarlacc) is Anakin failing to save Padme & turning due to her death.

    How about a polar opposite view on that theory? Think back to one of Vader's lines in ROTJ. "Give yourself to the dark side. It is the ONLY way to save your friends." Maybe Ani DOES keep Padme from dying, only he must turn to the dark side in order to do so.
  7. Sophita

    Sophita Jedi Master star 4

    May 24, 2002
    Copying my reply to a similar thread-

    I'm thinking that it's his love for Padme that brings him to the darkside, along with his impatience, and his insecurity; He is terrified of losing things he holds dear, and cannot accept it when he DOES lose the things he loves. We've already seen what happens when he loses his mother-What happens when he inevitably loses Padme, as we know he must?

    I'm also sure Palpatine will be in the backround, manipulating things as he always does, slowly turning Ani's anger towards the Jedi, Obi-Wan, and possibly even himself.

    And after the falling out of Anakin/Obi, I think it's rather easy for Anakin just to give up and stay with the darkness.

    So basically: Lots of factors, but Padme is definantely the largest one.

    That's just my guestimate though. *shrugs*
  8. Grilled-Sarlacc

    Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jul 19, 2001
    Great idea, OldieVonMoldie!
  9. Master_DuSai

    Master_DuSai Jedi Youngling star 1

    May 16, 2002
    this is a different twist to the Anakin losing Padme idea. What if an unknowingly pregnate Padme leaves Anakin. I think it would be harder for Anakin to deal with Padme deciding she couldn't be with him than if she died. There is some solace and nobility in death, especially of a heoric character like Padme. Anakin could live with that, knowing that she did her duty, even in death. But, if she left him, it would just fuel his anger, self-doubt, and negitivity.
  10. Master_Dubri

    Master_Dubri Jedi Youngling

    Aug 20, 2002
    .........cut to dooku force zapping padme, with anakin watching.......anakin gives himself to the darkside so he is powerful enough to take on dooku and protect padme....flash foward to vader watching luke get zapped
  11. PMT99

    PMT99 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 23, 2000
    Master Dusai-

    That kind of approach wouldn't push Anakin to the darkside because we always see him abide to Padme's wishes like he did at the fireplace in AOTC so if she decides to dump him, he will accept her wishes even though he won't like it.
  12. PepperSpray

    PepperSpray Jedi Youngling

    Dec 21, 2002
    LEIA: She Died when I was very young...

    If PADMÉ's death was the source of ANAKIN's turn to the DARKSIDE,,, & Leia knew her real mother when she died, then VADER would have known of her existence (LEIA)... Right?

    This leads me to think that PADMÉ rejects ANAKIN (because of his agressive behavior). Or, because of a warning from OBI-WAN that he has turned to the Dark Side.

    ANAKIN's desire for power is fed on by PALPATINE who urges (seduces) ANAKIN... His impatience has already started to and is what will ultimately turn him.
  13. forever_jedi

    forever_jedi Jedi Master star 5

    Jun 5, 2002
    There will be more than one single big reason. There may be something revealed about the past, for example, that someone was behind Shmi's death, which may bring about even more rage than during the Tusken massacre.

    Padme will play a part; it may be her death or it may be her distancing herself from Anakin as his darkside tendencies start to surface. There may be a parallel with RotJ; GL loves little parallels. Han and Leia love each other. But when Han thinks that Leia loves Luke, he says that he will stand aside and "not get in the way." What if Anakin is the exact opposite? Mistaking Padme's friendly affection towards Bail Organa?

    There has to be something along the lines of the Jedi Council denying him Knighthood, or throwing him out of the order, etc. There's been enough foreshadowing with "holding me back."

    What if he is terribly injured and dying and Sidious saves him (a la carbonite type freezing?) Then Sidious defreezes him, offers him the choice of death or life if he gives in to the dark side and hatred? Anakin doesn't want to die and embraces the dark side and rises from death - this would be very Frankenstein-like and in the "30s, 40s vocabulary".
  14. PepperSpray

    PepperSpray Jedi Youngling

    Dec 21, 2002
    You are definately right...

    GL will not base it on 1 event. We've already seen him slip. If you pay attention there are more than just one or two glimpses of anger in ANAKIN in SW2.
  15. DamonD

    DamonD Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 22, 2002
    I think Anakin will willingly embrace the Dark Side. He has a real thirst, a greed for power, and he doesn't have the mental discipline to find his potential through the Light Side of the Force.

    And when he is defeated by Obi-Wan and left almost dead, he will embrace it even more as he strives for revenge.

    Anakin's life as Vader is one of almost constant hatred. Very tragic.
  16. Mortimer_Nerdly

    Mortimer_Nerdly Jedi Master star 5

    Sep 19, 2002
    pssst!....everyone!....Padme's not gonna die in Episode III!

    Personally I think Anakin's gonna turn to the Dark Side if he hunts down Darth Tyranus and kills him, but gets beat up in the process. Then he takes Tyranus' place at Darth Sidious' side. Then Sidious orders him to help him get rid of the Jedi. Then later, he gets in a fight with Obi-Wan (The lave pit scene) and losses bad. At that point, Anakin becomes Darth Vader.
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 28, 2001
    My take is the same as I've mentioned in the last couple of weeks or so.

    -The threat to Padme will still exist. Just cause the Clone Wars end in the beginning of the film, doesn't mean that her life isn't endangered anymore.

    -Anakin's thirst for more power to protect her and stop Dooku, will overcome him.

    -A duel between Anakin and Tyranus will come. Not sure if Obi-wan is there or not.

    -The threat to Padme's life will be the final straw in his lashing out in anger and hate. Maybe made to think she's dead. Possible that Padme's pregnancy will help send him over the edge.

    -Then the duel between Anakin/Vader and Obi-wan begins, and ends with the injuries.
  18. AnddreWicha

    AnddreWicha Jedi Youngling star 2

    Feb 1, 2001
    I think the death of Padme coupled with his immaturity in accepting what Obi-Wan is going to tell him (the "I told you so" lecture) will weigh a heavy toll on the already troubled young man. I mean he is already blaming Obi-Wan for pretty much everything that is wrong in his life. When he sees why Jedi don't allow attachment (because of the emotional hardships and there interference towards their duty as Jedi) he will more than likely hate the Jedi more for that. But the death of Padme is the trigger in my opinion.

    Wow I got on the first page! SWEEEET! :D
  19. KypD

    KypD Jedi Youngling

    Dec 22, 2002
    -Has anyone ever thought about the fact that Anakin is selfish. He does every thing for himself. He has jeopardized missions for his own needs and feelings (i.e. going to look for his mom in ATOC and attacking Dooku on his own.)
    -So maybe he turns to save himself. This could be the only way he can live after falling into the lava. By useing the darkside to heal himself.
    -Just because Leia says she remembers her mother does not mean she really "remembers" her mother. She could just be thinking of Bail's wife who we have yet to hear of.
  20. OldieVonMoldie

    OldieVonMoldie Jedi Master star 3

    Dec 23, 2001
    Thanks, Grilled-Sarlacc!

    Master_Dubri, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I posted my theory. Lets flesh this out a bit.

    Lets look at what Anakin has seen from Dooku.
    First, he sent Ani into a smoldering, half consious heap with force lightning, then he totaly dominated Obi Wan (the only living Jedi to defeat a Sith), then fended off Anakin and cut off his arm. After all this, Dooku was still able to hold off the most experienced & powerful Jedi master and escape with his life.

    Add this to what George has said on the audio commentary of the AOTC dvd- 1. The ONLY way for Anakin to get the power he seeks is to use the darkside, & 2. The darkside IS stronger (but at a terrible price) & I can't think of any other way for Ani to defeat Dooku.

    This also would play into Leia's comments in ROTJ. Imagine how sad Padme would be knowing what Ani has become- in order to save HER. Plus this would let her live long enough so Leia's memories wouldn't be contradicted. Presumably to die sometime between the trilogies.
  21. Mortimer_Nerdly

    Mortimer_Nerdly Jedi Master star 5

    Sep 19, 2002
    OldieVonMoldie, I agree with you! Great theory!
  22. D_Lowe

    D_Lowe Jedi Knight star 6

    Aug 15, 2002
    I still think he will be angry with Obi-Wan and the Jedi for expelling him from the Jedi Order because his secret marriage to Padme is made known.

    The only problem I have with Anakin turning to the Dark Side to try to save Padme is that he know about both children and how would Obi-Wan be able to take those from Anakin and hide them without him knowing about it. That is where I see a complication with that theory.
  23. forever_jedi

    forever_jedi Jedi Master star 5

    Jun 5, 2002
    KypD, I agree that Anakin has been shown to be quite self-centered in AotC. Everything is always about himself or the one/two people close to him. I think the final and irreversible path to his Fall, is when he chooses to recover from his fatal injuries and live using the powers of the dark side. That is why, he is truly in the grip of the dark side in the OT, fears Palpatine, and cannot bring himself to turn back, knowing he will die. It is only in the final moments of RotJ that he is able to conquer his fear of death.
  24. Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa

    Smuggler-of-Mos-Espa Jedi Youngling star 6

    Jan 23, 2002
  25. Guybrush

    Guybrush Jedi Master star 3

    Oct 18, 2001
    Is he Anakin while he is fighting Obi-wan or has he already turned?

    When does Anakin leave his Skywalker name? When does that name no longer mean anything to him?

    Does he witness someones death, is he kicked out of the jedi order, does he become vader after the fight with obi-wan. The emergence of Anakin out of the lava transforms him into vader?

    Will the movie echo Dr Jekell/Mr. Hyde? (a movie out of the 40's) Has Vader been in Anakin all along, and through the course of the film we see him battle with his inner demons and in the end he succumbs to the dark side.

    Will the movie echo The Phantom of the Opera? Once Anakin has his face disfigured, does he feel he no longer can face his wife Padme? Is Anakin that vain?

    In Skywalkers mind does he start to view Anakin as a Weak link, one not strong enough in the force to win battles? He becomes disgusted with himself and takes on a name of power and fear. He becomes someone he knows can't lose.

    Well, what do you think?
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