*OFFICIAL THREAD* "CGI in the Prequels" Discussion

Why cant lucas spend 200 million? I mean his almost gauranted to get the money back and a lot more. He certanly has the money to spend. And btw i think the cgi in the prequals is awesome and will not be matched this year though i think war of the worlds will have kick ass cgi cause its costing about the same.

 

Here's a rant.
I just joined. For years, I've thought about signing up to a Star Wars group and starting some obnoxious thread with a name like "Top 10 most obviously computer generated effects in (take your choice of a movie)", but I was sure that it had been done already.
I'm not a big fan of CGI when it comes to animating animals or characters. The textures usually look real enough to me, but the movements don't. In the, what, 12 years since Jurassic Park, animators are still making creatures move the way they think they SHOULD, instead of the way they actually do. Motion capture technology can help-especially in wide shots- but in close ups, I think the movements are usually still too fluid, or too fast, or just not demonstrating enough inertia. Yes, every action has an equal reaction, but not necessarily an OBVIOUS reaction. (If, sitting in your chair, and for some reason you decide to plunge your head forward, you can do it without first pulling it back. A computer generated character would never do anything which was so obviously ungraceful).
I thought that some of the clone troops in the last film were obviously computer generated, especially the one who effortlessly kneels down and gets up in front of Padme. (I remember thinking "Why couldn't they have just had someone in a suit do that?") To be honest, I must admit that I didn't realize that all of the troopers were CG.
This one was better, but, as someone here pointed out, the best special effects (at least when it comes to computer generated) are the ones you don't notice. The clone troops were better- great in the wide shots, but as has been pointed out here, what's the point of having a character in the forground who's obviously not really there?
They gave up a long time ago on the battle droids. There was never any hope of them being unlubricated, or making jerky or rough movements. General Grevious' appearance was good, but movements- his walking, anyway- struck me as too smooth.
I often think that, by 2010, people will be able to identify computer generated character movement of this era as easily as we can identify stop-motion animation. Ok, enough knitpicking. I liked the movie, anyway.

 

I loved the CGI. You want over-done CGI, watch Sky Captain. THe CGI in ROTS blended in nicely, a warm, surreal, yet great-looking display. It fit the SW universe in that it managed to look so beautiful and not quite realistic, but at the same time, you could see things happening as if it were real. That's my $0.02 on this issue.

 

I often think that, by 2010, people will be able to identify computer generated character movement of this era as easily as we can identify stop-motion animation.

I still like Jabba's rancor and the tauntauns, even if they look as fake as helmetless clonetroopers.

 

I haven't had many proud scoops here on the boards, but I do take pride in this:

Before AotC came out, I had seen the photos and the commercials, and I complained in a thread "Why didn't George hire some guys in suits to be troopers?"

What's hilarious is that the thread was closed and locked, and I was constantly attacked by people who screamed that "no, those are guys in suits!!!"

After it came out that all the clones were CG, people didn't pat me on the back for being the first to notice or even apologize for being wrong. Instead, they attacked me, "They look good, people won't notice, you're an idiot."


Having written all this, the CG Clones in RotS are much better than the ones in AotC. Still not as good as men in suits are, but because the film was better, I'll accept the fake clones.

 

The clonetrooper on Kashyyyk that walks over to kill Yoda. That guy looks real! He walks like a real person. You forget he's computer.

 

I agree totally with TOASTEROVEN up above. CG characters are too smooth, and like we've all said, is it so bad to get some dudes in Clonetrooper suits? I mean, did they ALL have to be CG? The Rancor and Tauntauns looked more real than any of the creatures done with CG. Granted, stop-motion is quite time consuming, but I think the Rancor especially looked totally real, so it's a better payoff to make a creature come to life like that, as opposed to doing it with CGI and having people go, "Oh, that thing's totally made on computers".

 

The CGI in ROTS is the best we've seen so far in the history of film. My 2 Cents.

 

the only CG issue i have is the Clonetroopers!. not that they looked fake(they looked good) but because they WERE CG. I don't know why we could not just have guys in suits. it is CG for the sake of CG.which is pointles.It seems that it would take a lot more work to do motion capture and animation on troopers, then to have actors in uniforms. it was not neccessary and real costumes would have made the rest of the Effects look more realistic.

 

There were somethings that the CG clonetroopers did that guys in suits couldn't do. Example, when they arrive on Utapau. A lot of the more acrobatic movements would have been impossible for a dude in a suit as well. They looked good anyway; if I can suspend my disbelief for all the other crazy stuff in the GFFA, then the clonetroopers being CG is the least of my worries.

 

in those instances i agree. but all the way through?, even the Temuera Morrison close ups had him in a motion capture suit. overkill i say.
having said that , i think this is the first time i have ragged on anything in this movie. and unlike some people, it has hardly ruined it for me.

 

Yeah, I agree Duggy, maybe overkill, but Lucasfilm is not known for restraint when it comes to CG!

 

even though they looked realistic(i even had a aruement with a co worker who thought they WERE in suits) i still think that the Human touch can get lost . some things are traditional in SW. and to me troopers should be mainly "Guys in suits" with the obvious exeptions. but it is still a amazing feat of digital effects. like you said Yoshi, the best CG ever brought to the screen!.

 

These kind of discussion make me really want to watch all six films in a row, because I think that the CG in the PT and the SFX in the OT are really just there so GL can take us into his crazy universe. And I think both work equally as well.

 

Most of the time I really like the CG in ROTS but I do have some complaints. I didn't like most of the opening battle sequence. The only part that really made me go 'wow' was the very beginning where you see Anakin and Obi flying over the huge ship and then you can see the huge battle below. But after that it got a little mind numbing. I hated the battle droids as they get torched by R2, I've never seen anything so fake in a SW film. Sometimes the lava on Mustafar just seemed a little much as well. However, I could forgive the CG team for these things simply because of Coruscant. Its absolutely perfect! The amount of detail that is there, seeing the ships fly past the windows and everything, its just amazing.

 

"because I think that the CG in the PT and the SFX in the OT are really just there so GL can take us into his crazy universe. And I think both work equally as well. "




that is what he has claimed all along , they are there to propel the story. and to give some fanboys "AMMUNITION " to whine about this and that.




"Sometimes the lava on Mustafar just seemed a little much as well. However, I could forgive the CG team for these things simply because of Coruscant."




I don't think there was CG lava. it was done with real footage and some pasty stuff. you can see it in one of the Hyperspace webdocs.

 

"I don't think there was CG lava"

Seriously?
Oops, my mistake...

 

"I don't think there was CG lava"

Seriously?
Oops, my mistake...

I swear I'm not picking on you, but this just makes a point. Often times, we can't tell what's CG and what is not. That tells you that the quality of the CG, while not perfect, is very very good. Often times people complain that they should use models in the PT like they did in the OT, not realizing that they still use models!

 

and from what i saw on the HYPERSPACE webdocs, this movie had the most models and sets of the entire PT.

 

That's my biggest pet peeve about some of the gripes, is when someone complains something looks too CG, when I know it's a physical model. That's why I suggest you do some research on what was a model and what was not ("Making Of" books, docus), before you end up look like a fool.

 

What will be ROTS's greatest competition for Visual Effects Oscar? Narnia? War of the Worlds? Personally I think it will be King Kong, with Peter Jackson's reputation and the timing of December release, like LOTR.

If Weta pulls off convincing and photoreal Kong ape and dinosaurs and stuff, should that be enough to beat ROTS, which created multiple new worlds, countless characters and ship designs, etc?

Will a November 1 dvd release help ROTS's chances, or is that too early since voting comes in January?

 

i dont think its unreasonable to say that for most backgrounds, space battles, and just about everything else that cant be realistically done there is a need for CGI and it looks EXCELLENT.

but whoever looks at an obvious shot of something alive or a human that is cgi and doesnt get pulled out of the story is living in la-la land and needs to get off the computer and out into the sun for a bit.

stop animating humans.

again, for some shots far away or really fast it works fine, but stop the showcasing of animated humans. there is nothing more unbeautiful to watch than human movement that is 'off'. its because we ARE humans and we know what human movement should look like.

put an actor in a suit, make some geeks happy and you'll get no end of praise from geeks and critics alike. heck, just put a clone in a suit and multiply him a hundred times.

 

3417 put my feelings very well. Why put in CG humans when there are actors dying to be in your movie? Even if they're Clonetroopers, if the helmets are on no one can tell (unless you're too short like Mark Hamill, heh heh heh).

 

I do CGI as a hobby (been doing it for years) and the CGI in this movie was unbelievable. I could still dissect every part of a scene and tell whether it was real or not, but this is as good as it gets. The integration and lighting are definently the best ever put on film, no question. This movie involved a lot of shadows, darkness, and flashing lights which makes it so much harder. ROTS, TPM, and Jurassic Park and the 3 films to show CGI at its best (they are all about equal, a slight edge to JP).

 

For this one movie, ILM had it right on with Yoda - unlike AOTC Yoda, this little green friend is at least 95% like the puppet Yoda. 8)