*OFFICIAL THREAD* Clonetrooper/Stormtrooper Discussion

I think that the clonetroopers are programmed with a loyalty to the Republic not to the Jedi. Thus, if the Republic (aka the Empire) says that the Jedi are now the enemy, then they will fight and kill them.

 

But the clonetroopers have to make another switch when the Republic becomes an Empire- they have to start killing humans, not just battledroids, and they don't just have to go against Jedi, but anyone who opposes the Emperor- that's a change of behaviour from Republic times.

 

your right in saying that the clonetroopers are loyal to the Republic, not the Jedi, just like saying, the U.S. Army is loyal to the U.S., not the senators themselves. So, in theory, when the republic turns into the Empire, the clonetroopers MUST and will follow the orders as though nothing has changed

 

And now......... My wacky theory!

Clones are altered. What are these alterations? Excelerated growth. Anything else? We don't know yet. But what if they are altered to not have any midi-chlorians? If Palpy is behind all this he would know to make this alteration. Without midi-chlorians the jedi would be powerless against them. So one day Palps can say "The jedi are a cancer to the Republic" and "release the hounds" so to speak. Eventually the lack of midis would cause the clones to go crazy, or die, or whatever. But the damage is already done. So the new Emperor institutes a draft to take the place of the clones. hence Stormtroopers.

 

Somebody sometime ago (yes, very specific identification there ) posted an article made shortly after ESB that pointedly said the stormtroopers were, indeed, clones. And two, given the fact that the Empire IS the Republic redux, why is it necessary to even replace the clones, save those that are killed? Sure, the vehicles are different, but then the standard Navy plane from 1986 (f14 Tomcat) has been replaced now by the FA-18 Hornet) in LESS than twenty years. Militaries upgrade.

 

Yeah, the clones would follow the orders of Palpatine because they were made to be less independent, more docile, and to follow orders.

So, I guess all they have to do now is to defeat the battledroids, come back and follow Palpatine, who'll maintain control after the war because of the devastation and chaos that is left behind. And the rumoured "Great Clone War" is the shift in control, when the clones turn on the planets they once defended- they're still pawns, but pawns for the other side this time.

Maybe the clonetroopers will suffer losses at the hands of the Jedi or any opposition to Palpatine during this time, and he may be desperate for more troops, but since the clones on Kamino are taking too long to mature, he'll accelerate the growth of the clones and/or rush their training- and these are the stormtroopers...clones of different ages and sizes.

 

I think that somewhere near the end of the Clone War, the Clones go crazy (Yeah, thats what happens when you grow them too fast)
and Palpatine needs to replace them... so that is where Clones become obsolete. It's no longer worth the money to grow them just to fight a bit and go nuts, may as well recruit from the normal people. Cheaper, and they won't go crazy!
He might even blame the Clones going psycho on the Jedi. He might say that their little mind tricks twisted the Clones out of control or something. So then the people of the galaxy will get angry and go on a rampage to destroy the Jedi Order.

 

I do not think the clones will go crazy- the clones are positioned in AOTC to be the military support that Palpatine will need for his totalitarian rule.

I'm still with the stormtroopers being clones. They're being prepared for this role.

I think the Republic turns on the Jedi because Dooku was once a Jedi, and he causes mass destruction. Then when Palpatine gains power, the Jedi are the main group that resist him. They represent the old ideas of the Republic and that's why he disbands the Council and tarnishes the name of the Jedi to the people. He promises a new order that the Jedi's ideals do not fit in with- he puts them in a bad light to people, including Anakin.

 

I like how Lama Su says that the Clonetroopers will take any order without question. That kind of shows how Palpatine could do almost anything without opposition.

 

Ok now listen to me. I have a few facts(and and specutlation) that got to get though. The clone troopers die off because of their genetic enhancments. They will get too old by episode 4 and most will die during the clone wars. IG-88 is made by the Trade Federation and malfuctions and kills Nute Gunray and that will be the end of him. IG-88 was not made to kill Padme or he wouldn't be on Vader's flagship. Hugh Jackman is a Jedi in episode 3. Lucasfilm has not given him a name and other details are still undisclosed to ILM staff. In the novel of Episode 2 Yoda discovers the truth behind still being yourself while being one with the force. Evil cave where Luke fights Vader. The same thing will happen to Anikin. It will probably be a short dual between him and Dooku or Vader. And where I come up with Vader is because with Luke, It shows him where he is going. Lucas might show the connection between Boba and Jabba. Anikin might have gone back to free all the slaves and pod racing being gone might be Anikins doing too. Where is that female hut at? When Dooku wanted Obiwan to join him he wanted to let Obiwan live and join the Sith meaning he would have to kill Sidious.

 

"In the novel of Episode 2 Yoda discovers the truth behind still being yourself while being one with the force."

I must have missed that part. About what page is that on?

 

I am fine with three possibilites:

1:

The clonetroppers become the stormtroppers.

2:

The clonetroppers become the stormtroppers, but other clones, and other regular "recruits" get added in to the Empire slowly replacing the old ones - eventually only taking in pure breeds of humanoids leaving no clones left. This recruitment process would happen over time as the Empire takes control over planet systems forcing the men to be drafted into the empire's army. The force is at first caused by the clones, but over time is simply the emperor, vader, tarkin, and the stormtroppers.


3:

My favorite explanation (which I guess could be potentially combined with #2 as well) is:

The battle droids in EP1 were the first style of army. Their flaw was that they all are controlled by a central computer and can all be disabled simulataneously by a command ship's signal from being destroyed. The Clonetroppers are individuals and are therefore more advanced than the droids. They are all obviously from the same DNA and have that to their disadvantage. It could happen that if the opposing force to the clones found any genetic flaw or allergy that Jengo had that they (the opposing force to the clones) could defeat the clones by spraying a gas of chemicals that would simply kill them off due to their specific genetic flaw. This may not even be a real flaw, but a specific characteristic in the clones' DNA that can be diagnosed and then cross-examined with chemicals and other mutagens to disable their nervous system or other system in their bodies leaving them for dead.

Whatdya think?

 

INVERTEDMAN, you present three very intresting possibilities. I like the idea that there is some sort of virus that would only affect the clones. It would resolve a question that has been plaguing us for over 20 years, namely how in the world could Ewoks armed with sticks and stones defeat well armed stormtroopers?

Here is something to think about, though. Since clones age normally after they mature, that would mean that the first units would be 40 years old in the OT.

 

Do we really know what the origin of the clones really is?
1 Fact: they are clones of Jango Fett
2 Fact: Dooku is surprised at their appearance at the battle, oppsite of one who would expect them or created them
3Fact: Genos say Syfo-Das ordered them for the JEDI not the Republic
4Fact: 10 years ago same time as Naboo incident
5Fact: Syfo-Das is dead before that and the Naboo Incident , rumor an assassination
6Fact: Only a Jedi can erase something from the Jedi Archives.
7Fact: The Genos waited 10 years for a Jedi to show up
8Fact: The geno that meet obi seemed recognized him perhaps a look alike
9Theory: qui-Gon is alive at the time of the ordering of the clones
may erased the archives or it may have been Qui-Gon he?s dead which would explain absence of Jedi looking in on Genos on productivity
1-Fact Qui Gon was aware of cooruption in senate
3 Fact: Qui-Gon had a deep loss recently in TPM Ankin: No one can kill a Jedi Qui-Gon: I wish that were so
4 Fact Qui-Gon knew Ankin is chosen one, full capability in ten years may need military help, sith a great danger, he believed Maul was a sith as he stated so with corruption becoming ramped and emergence of sith and appearance of chosen one, great conflict in future which would explain need for an army for the JEDI
5 Theory: Gui-Gon back from Tatooine finds the chosen one and encounters the Sith on the same planet, the council does not take him seriously, turmoil has engulfed the Senate and the future is uncertain. The chosen one will be able to face the threat to bring balance in about 10 years, when he is adult, the sith was after the queen which means they were working with the trade federation. They have a big army so the sith have an Army. When Ankin faces the sith he will face them and the Army. Anakin needs an army. So with the Senate uncertain and the council ignorant it must be in secret. Using a former masters name will stop the army being trace to him. Ten years later obi looks like qui-gon. Qui gon dies and the secret dies with him. All dooku need to do to start a war was to kill some jedi not engge an army. The army was an added bonus for Palp.
6 All this however does not accout on how Jango fits in, nor does dooku know of an Clone army. Previous contact?

 

Clones for Jedi Council. Palp and plubic against Jedi. DRAFT! Quickest way to raise an army. Low quality though, explains alot.

 

I think that the troopers are recriuted by the emperor and the rest of the storm troopers are students of the empire academy.

 

OK, as GL has alledgedly said:

"Ive always known that stormtroopers were clones"

OK, but as many, including myself have pointed out, this is not a fesible idea. Think about it. Stormtroopers are, dumb, cowardly, and apparently the best place to stand when a stormtrooper is firing at you is right in front of them because they cant aim. Well I, figured out how GL could make it so that Clonetroopers do in fact, equal stormtroopers. Pay attention:

SCENERIO:

With Jango dead, no new DNA can be used to make new Jango clones. THEY CANNOT USE DNA OF CLONES, GENETIC DRIFT WOULD EVENTUALLY CAUSE MAJOR PROBLEMS . So here the Jedi come to Kamino to look at the vat of DNA that is left. When Jar-Jar in his infinite clumsiness falls in. BINGO we have clumsy, stupid and ultimately pretty worthless stormtroopers.

This solves so many problems including the faction to have Jar-Jar dead. Also, it shows why the Empire has these stupid guys.

Ok, Im done

 

nice one v wing fighter pilot!!

 

Thank You

EDIT

Oh and one more thing:

2 Fact: Dooku is surprised at their appearance at the battle, oppsite of one who would expect them or created them


No he wasn't he jusrt playing the game, remember he tell Sidious that everything is going as planned at then end? He was just acting suprised so that the Sepretists wouldnt suspect anything. Dont you think they would if he wasn't suprised at a Clone army comming out nowhere?

 

Probility 0. What of the Qui-Gon connection? Thoughts, anything wrong or right?

 

I posted this in the ATOTC message board earlier....Sorry if this seems redundant.

I read a lot of stuff in a thread somewhere about why the clonetroopers were badarses and the stormtroopers pretty much stink.

A popular theory was that the stromtroopers of the OT were a completely new Clone Army commissioned by palpatine to fight the clonetroopers of the republic. The theory further explained that the Empire stressing Quantity over Quality would mass produce these 'troopers which will reach adulthood in half the time, thus decreasing their overall abilities. The theory also explains how the clonetroopers were loyal to the Republic and not to Palpatine thus causing the need to make his own army. Intersting theory that makes sense.

Here's my sense of it.

I think that the stormtroopers of the OT are just "next generation" clones or descendants of the clonetroopers. Without Jango's live dna to continue to make first generation clones, the future soldiers where probably "clones of clones" and so on and so forth, which may degrade the overall quality of the finished product. Perhaps Obi Wan and Yoda seeing that Palpatine is getting too powerfull somehow "tamper" with the CLone DNA thus dimishing the overall effectiveness of the army.(Would be nice to see the Jedi "manipulate" events like Palpatine does)

Also I don't believe that Palpatine needed a new Clone Army to fight the old one. It is my understanding that the "troopers" are loyal to their commanders, which in either trilogy are either Jedi(PT) or Palpatine's governors, generals and Admirals, which are all "non-clones".

Tell me what you think.

 

I like the idea about having the stormies being "clones of clones." Another idea might be that the production process was sped up, thus causing the lack of training, etc.

 

Then why the varriation of voices in all the OT? If they were clones would they not have had the same voice as the clones and Jango did? And what of the Death Star troopers? They are not clones.

 

The clones the various different heights, voices, etc. where probabably slight mutations of different generations of clones. They could be further defined as the "Tall Batch", "The Short Batch", "The Bad Shot Batch"(the most widely used batch), and the "Raspy Voice Batch."


**** The real answer to all of this is... In 1977, GL had no idea that we would spend all day in message boards analyzing every little detail of his Universe. He probably didn't think about it

 

The entire debate over the details I feel can be explained by the combination of two critical yet simple factors to the Emporer in the near future...the factors of immediate need and simple economics.

Despite their growing numbers and evident talent, the Republic is going to lose a great number of Clonetroopers to the ever widening separtist war. In the giant ruse that Palpatine has weaved across the entire galaxy he will all too happily applaude the slaughter of the army that he secretly conspired to create. The replacement to these combat casualties are found to be far too time consuming and costly for the impatient and overconfident Palpatine.

In a war that he himself has created, and one in which he is holding the strings to both sides of participants, Palpatine doesn't need the best, he just needs the most.

To get the most (in order for the future need of a massive determent effect), he will employ the simple task of recruitment while using the all too enticing factors of a life of excitment, wealth, and power. Hence the birth of the Imperial Army and Navy...

By doing so, Palpatine would have an incredible corps of men from nearly every known system, both young and old, that willingly (and sometimes naively) enlist themselves into the Emporer's service. Some will do it for the power, some for the opportunity, and some for the grandiose ideas that the Supreme Chancellor/Emporer will ultimately spin the idea to be...but irregardless of their personal reasoning, in his service they all shall be.