*OFFICIAL THREAD* Clonetrooper/Stormtrooper Discussion

"From the AOTC DVD commentary -

(bold added to point out the important parts_

Lucas - (talking about Boba) "Before, he was just another clone, who was just, you know, for what ever reason, had sort of broken off from the stormtroopers. ... Early on, the stormtroopers were meant to be clones" (AOTC DVD audio commentary, 46:47 - 47:02 minutes)

Rob Coleman - "This is our first chance to really realize, oh my gosh, these clonetroopers are really stormtroopers...." (AOTC DVD audio commentary, 47:32 - 47:37 minutes)

So, this should settle all debates about the majority of stormtroopers."

I agree...and to take it one step further...at the end of the Jango vs Obi-Wan duel, GL and Rob Coleman talk about Jango banging his head on the way in Slave 1 as a way to tie him to the stormtroopers and that it's a "trait" that the stormtroopers "inherited" from Jango.

 

This was also on the commentary-

Lucas says that Jango smacks his head on the door of Slave I to show why the Stormtrooper in A New Hope hits his head as the Stormtroopers are from Jango's DNA. Well, I guess that clears up that debate...for now.

 

Just wat to add my too cents.

The line from the Kamioian saying that they need to keep Jango aroung because they need a new sample of his DNA is not on the DVD. I watched with and without the commentary on. I will look for it specifically tonight. And get down the exact dialog.

 

I don't suppose that the SWTCG is canon, but the newest expansion set, A New Hope, reveals that stormtroopers are indeed clones.

 

Y'know, about 4 months ago someone( ECMBoba-Fett I think ) showed me a Lucas quote from a 1980's Starlog magazine where Lucas says that he envisions the Stormtroopers as being clones, and now he repeats that statement on the AotC DVD. Sweet!

 

Lucas says that Jango smacks his head on the door of Slave I to show why the Stormtrooper in A New Hope hits his head as the Stormtroopers are from Jango's DNA. Well, I guess that clears up that debate...for now.

Ridiculous. DNA has nothing to do with a character's penchant for hitting his head. That is not a Fixed Action Pattern, and FABs are associated with species--not individuals.

Habits are not transfered through DNA.

---

As for the assertation that "fresh" DNA is needed to clone, that is what I call utter BS.

Let me explain why.

Life started with a little monoran (single-celled organsim). This little guy reproduced by binary fission--asexual reproduction. He duplicated his DNA and made another copy of himself. This little guy made multiple copies of himself. Along the way, one of these copies mutated. Maybe radition hit his unprotected DNA, or maybe heat denatured it--anything could have done it. It didn't mutate on its own, however. Binary fission does not produce those sorts of errors.

So, this little guy learned to "mate". It wasn't reproduction as we know it, but it was sexual. He exchanged DNA with a mutated cousin through DNA encapsulated in protein. The DNA was modified, and eventually a series of mutations, accidents, and "matings" resulted in protists and even multi-celluar life.

The first animal arose from colonial protists. Animals produced sexually. Fast-forward through mutations and mistakes and you get the most significant mistake ever created: the human being. (Note: mistakes are mutations. Mistakes lead to evolution. I'm not dissing humanity. ^_~)

Let us look at our parents. They produced gametes through meiosis, which involves duplicating DNA and splitting chromosomes and all that good stuff. That haploid set of DNA fused into diploid DNA and formed a zygote--you. From that single DNA strand, came multiple mitoses until the very last mitosis happened two seconds ago. That's all DNA duplication.

Now we have transcription of DNA into tRNA. Then that's translated into mRNA and so on and so forth. That's even more copying!

Let's count how many times DNA was duplicated in order to get to you. It's about a few quadrillion, give or take a billion.

See, now we have a problem. Because if DNA lost quality, animals wouldn't exist. Monkeys wouldn't exist. Neither would humans, your parents, or you. You'd never develop cells. You couldn't even translate mRNA into enzymes--so all your biological processes would become dead.

We'd still have monorans, because they can function off any sort of nucleic acid--but the quality would be so bad that animals would never exist. Neither would George Lucas, or Jango for that matter.

George can say all he wants, but if he choses to have Jango as a human--he follows the rules of human biology... no matter what galaxy he's in.

Honestly, Jango really doesn't matter. The computers on Kamino can store a lowly genome. [i]We[/i] can currentely do that. Jango's DNA is 99.99999998 percent identical to anyone else's. It takes us about a month to code one person's specific DNA differences in their genome, but we can do it.

I sure hope that the big bad cloners on Kamino has better technology than we do. *rolls eyes*

Even if they didn't, the clones should have intact DNA. I've proven that they cannot deteriorate.

[hr]

Conclusion: Unless the Kaminoians do something stupid, like make the DNA radioactive, the DNA cannot lose quality.

Uncle Georgie made an oops.

[hr]

[color=white][hl=blue][i]me = GrandAdmiralJello [/hl][/i][/color]

 

WOW!! Thanks for the biology lesson Jello.

I remember most of that from College but that was almost 10 years ago. And you know if you don't use it you lose it!

I never bought the idea that a new DNA sample was needed every so often. A copy is a copy. If you are taking an exact copy of something as complex as DNA then you better not be making any mistakes or your clones might come out with 3 arms or something!!

 

"That trait of Jango Fett bumping his helmet on the Slave I is cloned into the Stormtroopers."

... George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

 

Jello: This is the same galaxy where people are being shot at in close range and not get hit. Where sound is in space. Where a mystical power allows people do to amazing things. No matter what the rules of the real world are, you can make up your own rules. Lucas said that he had to make up his own rules. It's all in the GL prouncements and the "Behind The Magic" disc.

 

Yeah.... who cares what he says off screen though?

 

ungh ummmh.... Cloned into the Stormtroopers....

 

Sure GL can make up his own rules as he goes because it is his story.

What i don't get is that when pressed with arguments from fact here on Earth that point is always brought up. But some people who bring that point up have a way of trying to prove thier ideas with fact from this rock too. So sure GL can bend the rules or even break them, but until we see direct evidence in the movie I am not going to buy it. He goes by the rules until we see otherwise.

I mentioned in a post eariler about the line from Lauma Su about them needing to keep Jango around because they need a new sample of his DNA every so often, is not on the DVD. So if that line is not there then the clones could be copied forever and GL is going by the rules put down by Jello.

 

I watched AOTC last night and that line wasn't in there. Luma Su said that they keep Jango Fett on Kamino, but not for fresh DNA.

"Oh, we keep him around." That's all that he said to Obi-wan, before going on about Boba Fett.

You can assume all you want, but what Lucas says goes. He said that the bump Jango took was to show the connection to the Stormtrooper in ANH. And that was only because that everyone has gone on about that scene. The "rule bending" statement came in 1998, four years before AOTC.

 

There is apparently a reference to 'genetic fading' in the original shooting script. The following excerpt is from what is believed to be the shooting script. I found it at Star Wars: The Lost Episodes.


OBI-WAN

Where is this bounty hunter now?

LAMA SU

Oh, we keep him here. After a few hundred thousand clones, the genetic pattern starts to fade, so we take a fresh supply. He lives here, but he's free to come and go as he pleases.

If this is true, either Boba will be the new host, or there will be no additional production of clones, aside from those that are already on the way.

 

I think there will be a massive invasion of Corusant. It is at this point that the Clonetroopers will become the Stormtroopers, mirroring the nazi invasion of Europe. I think that this invasion will occur right about half-way through the movie. It is this invasion that will likely be the "catastrophic event" of episode III that transforms the prequel galaxy into the OT galaxy.

 

If the "genetic fading" theory is true than they HAVE to use a new host. Otherwise the stormtroopers in the OT would be 40-60 years old. I just don't buy 60 year old stormtroopers but maybe that would explain why they're such poor soldiers. They've grown weak in their old age. But, who would they clone? If you belive the Micheal Keaten movie "Multiplicity" than if you make a copy of a copy they come out all..um...strange.

 

Well, I believe i have an authoritative and true answer that should give an answer to this puzzling question. In the Attack of the Clones DVD (technical commentaries section), Lucas makes an important comment at the end of the Obi-Wan vs. Jango fight. As Jango bumps his head running onto the Slave I, Lucas mentions that stormtroopers show similar signs of clumsiness throughout Star Wars, a humorous and odd trait that was genetically picked up from Jango. What more can be said...? However as for why the stormtroopers cant shoot...hmm....

 

If the "genetic fading" theory is true than they HAVE to use a new host. Otherwise the stormtroopers in the OT would be 40-60 years old. I just don't buy 60 year old...

Not necessarily. If you watch carefully, you'll notice that at one point Obi-Wan looks out to see thousands of 'test tube' fetuses while on his tour of the Kamino cloning facility. These little fellas wouldn't be over the hill twenty years down the line.

Romana1911: But those comments don't rule out the possibility that Boba will become the next donor. Remember, he's genetically identical to Jango (no tampering with the DNA).

 

Not necessarily. If you watch carefully, you'll notice that at one point Obi-Wan looks out to see thousands of 'test tube' fetuses while on his tour of the Kamino cloning facility. These little fellas wouldn't be over the hill twenty years down the line.

please remember, the clones are engineered for accelerated growth, otherwise "it would take a lifetime to grow one".

go on...

 

The clones are accelerated to maturity. It doesn't necessarily follow that they age at an accelerated rate after that.

 

like i said before i think stormtroopers and clonetroopers are the same because they are both very obidient both fight the same exclude the commander which might be hired by the emperor because they think different

 

I think the new batch will consist of palpatines DNA, because you can clearly see the stormtroopers mask to look more like emperor's face with the big eyes and the frown.



btw I'm going to up this for who ever wants to say something about it

 

Padawans....I've posted on thread several times and refuse to get caught in the mix again... The clonies are stormies point blank and simple. if GL says it so shall it be. He has allowed several brainfarts over the years. Here we go...

1) made the mistake in allowing fans to believe that stormies are recruits, in ANH we see stormies talking to each other like buddies; subservant clones don't do that(books,personalities and families).
2) stormies are LETHAL. they're just not lethal to main characters (ask any rebel soldier in the beginning of EP4 & 5 if they felt like a threat to stormies today). If not how would they have ran the GALAXY for 20 years.
3) looking at the retarded superiors they were under itz surprising many stormies did'nt defect(Palpy have a penchant for promoting treachery over competence)
4) widespread knowledge that stormies were the best of the best, that'z why nobody dared fight them when they took over other worlds.
5) refusal to act in cowardice:stormies are trained to keep coming even though they lose big numbers, they only retreat to regroup.Hard to defeat an army that will sacrifice hundreds just to get a few: nothing to lose menatality(vietnam showed us that)
6) the promotion factor; the best stormies were promoted to royal guards. If all stormies were clones then they all have the potential the become crimsons becuase itz in their DNA, therefor all of them should be getting promoted after a while.
7) and what'z with the european stormie officers (in black) in the OT, when AOTC pushes the premise that stormies bred their own officers (same pacific islander heritage).

these are some of the few mistakes that GL let lie and have confused fans to no end over the past 2 decades. Ponder futher on this riddle I will young onez.

 

As I said when watching AOTC, Luma Su never said anything about why Jango was kept on. The genetic fading was there at first, but Lucas dropped it.

 

As I said...what does that have to do with the difference in Clones or Strormies.. I don't care if the they used Chewie as the source of the DNA, it still doesn't explain the subtle differences in the troops.

I find your lack of faith disturbing........