*OFFICIAL THREAD* Initial Reactions for RotS

Aside from the fact that you said Anakin's lightsaber was red...

Gives us a T, give us an R, give us an O...

 

>>>>1) If Anakin is a virgin birth of metaclorines how come he has a "brother" about whom we learn quite alot in Star Wars, who knows alot about Anakin's past as Luke tells Obi-wan.

First off. It is MIDICHLORIANS.

Secondly, Owen is his STEP brother. This is made exceedingly clear in Episode II. I suggest you go back and watch that movie again, my friend.

>>>>2) Leia remembers her mother and describes her as very beautiful, very sad etc but her mother's already dead, and don't give me this stuff about her being force sensitive and remembering her mother when she was mere minutes old.

Well, I'm sorry, but I am going to give you this stuff about her being force sensitive and remembering her mother when she was mere minutes old.

1. She is a child of the Chosen One.
2. If you can accept all the other things that Jedi are capable of, then just open your mind a little more.
3:

---

"Through the Force, things you will see. The future, [b]the past. Old friends, long gone.[/b]

[i]-- Master Yoda, TESB, 1980.[/i][hr][/blockquote]

[i][b]>>>>3) Palpatine says oh you killed Padme.... and you think there's no way Anakin/Vader could find out what happened for real, come on people lets not be blinded!!!![/b][/i]

I believe it is you who are being a little myopic. Would you like to point out HOW, exactly, Vader would find out?


As an aside, I would just like to point out how much I LOVE Sidious' smiling face under his cloak when Vader realises that Padme is dead.

[i][b]>>>>4)Obi-wan hands Luke his father's lightsabre.. he wanted you to have this says Obi. Nope never did and Anakin's was red, Luke's is white.[/b][/i]

Er. What are you talking about?
Anakin's saber was blue.
Luke's saber is blue.

And of course Anakin did not want Luke to have his saber! Obi-Wan is LYING to Luke to get him interested in becoming a Jedi.

[i][b]>>>>5) Grevious and his heavy breathing. Clearly he's proto-Vadar creation, but though he might have had a shriveled up heart in his metal skeleton he has no lungs, after all if he did he'd have died when blown into space in the fight on the bridge.[/b][/i]

Yes. He has mechanically assisted lungs. Just like Vader.
So what?

[i][b]>>>>6)In Star Wars Leia's hologram says that Obi-wan fought for her father in the Clone Wars. No he didn't, Organa isn't shown fighting anyone in the Clone wars he has no standing in the Jedi Council and there is no rebel alliance for him to command or Obi-wan to be a member of.[/b][/i]

Err. Hello?
Obi-Wan fights as a General in the Clone wars for the Republic.
Bail is a member of the Galactic Senate of the Republic.
Who [b]RUN[/b] the Republic.

It's all quite simple really. :)

[i][b]>>>>7) "Strange" says was Obi-wan in the gorge when he rescues Luke, I don't remember owning a droid.... you don't remember the R2 unit you called by name and took with you on various missions to save the republic. A droid by the way who doesn't have his memory wiped...[/b][/i]

He [b]DOES NOT[/b] say: [i]"Don't ever remember THIS droid...."[/i]
He says: [i]"Don't ever remember [b]OWNING[/b] a droid."[/i]

Of course he bloody remembers R2. This is the sign from the Force that the "time is right" (Yoda's words in ROTS) to train the twins.

And think about it, do you really think that Obi-Wan is going to say: [i]"Oh yeah, R2, I remember him. He belonged to your father before he turned into Darth Vader and helped destroy the Jedi"[/i] ??!??!?

I mean, DO you?!?!?

[i][b]>>>>8) Don't even get me started on asking why Darth doesn't recognize his own driods later on, one of which he built himself!!![/b][/i]

Where is it shown in the films that he [b]DOESN'T[/b] recognise them???

PPOR. :)

[i][b]>>>>Oh I could go on ....[/b][/i]

If it's more of the same inconsistent thought processing, then please, don't. :)

-----------------------------

[i][b]>>>>Hi JR, been a while. I havent seen it yet as i live in the outback but i will see it twice on friday and once on saturday. I know

 

"I saw Star Wars 3 times in one day when I was 10 by hiding under seats in the cinema in 1977 when I was 9 years old."

You lived under the seats of a movie theater for a whole year in anticipation of SW? Wow, my hat's off to you. Didn't you get tired of living off of dropped popcorn and candy?

 

the fact remains that Lucas should ashamed of himself. He's let down an entire generation and diminished his own reputation into the bargain.

thats not a 'fact' thats actually your opinion. You are perfectly entitled not to like this film but the vast majority have including most fans of the OT.

TPM and AOTC were not that great but Lucas has nothing to be ashamed of and the only people he has let down are the people who take the Star Wars universe too seriously in the first place.

If you really wanted to you could rip all 6 of the films apart. For instance the Millenium Falcon hurtles through Space during the chase through the Asteroid field ..but nobody is strapped in and thus the laws of gravity are ignored.

Leia is supposed to be a diplomat..yet refers to Chewie ' as a walking carpet' ...eh...

Hamill's acting is god awful ,,in fact like father like son springs to mind.....

but really none of the above mattered when u were 9 cos it was a great ride....and none of the imperfections in ROTS mattered either to my 7 year old nephew who was on cloud 9 after seeing it....

 

thats a great reply JR, saved me a lot of time.

 

>>>> My answers start with the chevrons

First off. It is MIDICHLORIANS.

Secondly, Owen is his STEP brother. This is made exceedingly clear in Episode II. I suggest you go back and watch that movie again, my friend.

>>> As I said fair enough on this point

Well, I'm sorry, but I am going to give you this stuff about her being force sensitive and remembering her mother when she was mere minutes old.

1. She is a child of the Chosen One.
2. If you can accept all the other things that Jedi are capable of, then just open your mind a little more.
3:

>>> You're grasping for straws here after all while I'm accepting that force sensitive babies (you're making it up) can remember their dead mothers from birth why don't I imagine that force sentive babies could remember they had a twin brother as well... oh dear a step too far I fear.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Through the Force, things you will see. The future, the past. Old friends, long gone.

-- Master Yoda, TESB, 1980.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>And right back atchya with

>>>> "Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future." meaning nothing is fixed and Jedi visions are neither infallible or precise.

I believe it is you who are being a little myopic. Would you like to point out HOW, exactly, Vader would find out (whether he had killed Padme)?

>>>>> Listen my friend if Obi-wan can find the moment "the chosen one" turns to the dark side on a security recording I'm sure this ultra powerful Sith could make a few enquiries and find the truth about whetehr he'd murdered his wife. And as for would I want to try and remember killing the woman I loved more than anything in the universe damn straight I would I would want to try and find out, you'd wouldn't? Hell then its a small step from there to believing that if George says its so then it must be...


Er. What are you talking about?
Anakin's saber was blue.
Luke's saber is blue.

And of course Anakin did not want Luke to have his saber! Obi-Wan is LYING to Luke to get him interested in becoming a Jedi.

>>>>White, blue ok... Ah so Obi-wan's a liar... more on that later

Err. Hello?
Obi-Wan fights as a General in the Clone wars for the Republic.
Bail is a member of the Galactic Senate of the Republic.
Who RUN the Republic.

It's all quite simple really.

>>>>> You can interpret like that if you want but thats like a soldier in Iraq believing a member of Parliament or the American senate is the same the President or Prime Minister. In Star Wars its clearly implied that Bail is in charge "you served my father" she says. Not with him, alongside him or any other way it implies he commanded Obi-wan. He didn't

He DOES NOT say: "Don't ever remember THIS droid...."
He says: "Don't ever remember OWNING a droid."

Of course he bloody remembers R2. This is the sign from the Force that the "time is right" (Yoda's words in ROTS) to train the twins.

And think about it, do you really think that Obi-Wan is going to say: "Oh yeah, R2, I remember him. He belonged to your father before he turned into Darth Vader and helped destroy the Jedi" ??!??!?

I mean, DO you?!?!?

>>>>>> So glad you can read Obi-wans mind and can read the signs from the force (so in your world the force is a sentient thing that can sends signs and read the passage of events? Whoa tiger). We'll have to agree to disagree that R2's claim to being owned by Obi-wan and their bizarre dance of supposed non-recognition or each other when reunited in the desert is anything other than contradictory and badly handled.

Where is it shown in the films that he DOESN'T recognise them (the droids)???

>>>>> Oh for gods sake...

If it's more of the same inconsistent thought processing, then please, don't.

>>>> No I quite like your attempts to paper over the cracks and fill in the blanks

 

I'm 37.

Saw ANH at least 25 times in theaters at age 10. As big a StarWars fan as there is. Loved ESB (although at the time I remember everybody complaining that we would have to wait 3 years to see what happened). I clearly remember most fans NOT believing that Vader was Luke's father. Found ROTJ to be a satisfying way to end the Trilogy (wished it was Wookies vs. Ewoks though - GL was critized using Ewoks for merchandising angle). I loved the final battle w/ Luke/Vader/Empereor.


TPM had many good scenes but overall left me hugely dissapointed. AOTC was better IMO but I still felt somewhat unattached to it and the PT. I started wondering if it was ME. Was I not enthralled by the PT because I was now an adult and saw things through the eyes of an adult?? It was in a way depressing because I felt that I had truly lost that child in me that saw the OT. The child that could pretend to be Luke or Han for hours on end. I was now the "stuffy adult" who seemed to lose all his imagination. I remember watching TPM, and AOTC and thinking "now c'mon, that's just stupid, that can't happen". I no longer believed in Santa Claus and now no longer believed in Star Wars. I was Peter Pan all grown up with an accounting job.

Well, I'm thrilled to say that ROTS changed all that! I took my 11 and 8 year olds to see it Friday night. That wonderful and spectacular movie found the dormant childhood imagination buried somewhere in my psyche and brought it bubbling to the surface! I was completely captivated and thrilled watching the events unfold in ROTS. The special effects left me muttering superlatives to myself - just like the OT did. The CGI didn't look cheesy any more - they where simply stunning. For a bit over 2 hours I became a 10 year old boy again! Walking out of the theater I felt like my children where my childhood friends as we giddingly discussed the awesome movie we just witnessed! I could see their imagination exploding in their eyes - lit like a roman candle.

We went home and watched Episode IV at their adamant request. I sat there watching the classic, answering my children's questions about Luke, Leia, Han Solo....,
thinking about ROTS, and thanking George Lucas with a huge grin on my face. For at least one night I had returned to Neverneverland.

Simply awesome!

 

Well, I was leaving the 3SA but after seeing ROTS for the second time, I have to say it's now my favourite of the series. I never believed for one second I would love this movie more than ESB, but I do.

 

>>>>As I said fair enough on this point

Cool.


>>>>You're grasping for straws here after all while I'm accepting that force sensitive babies (you're making it up) can remember their dead mothers from birth why don't I imagine that force sentive babies could remember they had a twin brother as well... oh dear a step too far I fear.

---

"I know. Somehow, [b]I've always known.[/b]

[i]-- Princess Leia, ROTJ, 1983.[/i][hr][/blockquote]
I guess it's not a step too far according to Lucas. I'm afraid that you are just going to have to accept that Leia has a fantastic Force-assisted memory.


[b][i]>>>>And right back atchya with [/i]"Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future." [i]meaning nothing is fixed and Jedi visions are neither infallible or precise.[/i][/b]

Accept, of course, that it is NOT right back at me.

Because the line you have quoted refers to the FUTURE, which is always in motion. Leia's memory is the PAST, based on what she remembered in the moment. Which is not always in motion. The past is something concrete that happened.

[i][b]>>>>Listen my friend if Obi-wan can find the moment "the chosen one" turns to the dark side on a security recording I'm sure this ultra powerful Sith could make a few enquiries and find the truth about whetehr he'd murdered his wife. And as for would I want to try and remember killing the woman I loved more than anything in the universe damn straight I would I would want to try and find out, you'd wouldn't? Hell then its a small step from there to believing that if George says its so then it must be...[/b][/i]

The fact is that neither Yoda, Obi-Wan, Bail or R2 are going to tell him what happened to her. And Threepio can't tell him anymore. Padme is clearly shown to still be pregnant in the funeral on Naboo.

Vader is going to see the funeral, and know that he is the one who laid her out unconscious with his Force choking her. He knows that Kenobi tried to save her from his Force choking of her, [b]so who else, pray tell, is he going to THINK killed her?[/b]

He'll see she's dead on the Holo news and think that he was responsible.


[i][b]>>>>White, blue ok... Ah so Obi-wan's a liar... more on that later[/b][/i]

Yes. From a certain point of view. ;)


[i][b]>>>>You can interpret like that if you want but thats like a soldier in Iraq believing a member of Parliament or the American senate is the same the President or Prime Minister. In Star Wars its clearly implied that Bail is in charge "you served my father" she says. Not with him, alongside him or any other way it implies he commanded Obi-wan. He didn't.[/b][/i]

You see. It's your use of the word 'IMPLIES', which shows that you are ALSO [b]interpretting[/b] this in the way that suits you.

The same way that it's also an interpretation from Leia. Who wasn't there at the time.
Suspend some disbelief, my friend. It's not a plot hole.

[i][b]>>>>So glad you can read Obi-wans mind and can read the signs from the force (so in your world the force is a sentient thing that can sends signs and read the passage of events? Whoa tiger). We'll have to agree to disagree that R2's claim to being owned by Obi-wan and their bizarre dance of supposed non-recognition or each other when reunited in the desert is anything other than contradictory and badly handled.[/b][/i]

Yep. R2 is lying too. That is because [b]he needs an excuse[/b] to get the message to Kenobi.


[i][b]>>>>Oh for gods sake...[/b][/i]

The point of the matter is that Vader more than likely DOES recognise Threepio. But SO WHAT? Do you expect him to say [i]"Hi Threepio, I'm so glad Mom didn't sell you or anything."[/i]...?

WHY do you think that Vader would acknowledge him, AT ALL?

Anakin Skywalker is dead to him, remember? : [i]"That name no longer has any meaning for me..."[/i]


[i][b]>>>>No I quite like your attempts to paper over the cracks and fill in the blanks[/b][/i]

No papering going on here, my friend. Just givin' you the facts. :)


-JR :)

 

"As for sith, the main problem is the crux of the story, the turn, why was the turn so quick ?"

I'm not sure why that bothers so many people. The force is magical, we aren't talking just a normal real world betrayal, once you open yourself to the darkside it infects you and you essentially cease to be yourself.

Just like the one ring in lord of the rings. There were moments where Aragorn and Galdriel and Faramir and Sam were all tempted to steal the ring from Frodo, and if they had that would of been the end of them. All it would of taken was one moment of weakness

and thats what happened with anakin. Not to mention that Mace had entered into a grey area of the force with wanting to execute Palpatine in cold blood so Anakin had a bit of a dilemma

Think about ROTJ when Luke snaps. He was one cold blooded saber swing away from being just as evil as his father. If he had struck down vader then he would of let the darkside in, and Palpatine would quickly have control of him. Before long Palpatine would of been able to turn Luke against the rebels, Han and even Leia the very people he wanted to protect. Luke would become just as evil as Vader in ROTS

And we bought that in ROTJ despite the fact that up until that moment Luke was pure good and never slaughtered a village of tuskens, never lusted for power, didn't have palpatine pouring poison honey in his ear for 13 years, that he hadn't already killed dooku in cold blood etc.

People say the turn was quick but we're forgetting that anakin was already like 80% evil by the end of aotc

It was never a matter of if, it was always just a matter of when

Now admittedly Lucas did make the arc for anakin problematic throughout the PT.

In Ep1 anakin is a nice boy who is basically indifferent about obi-wan, and obi-wan is highly doubtful and condescending about him,

In episode2 we are told they are friends, but they seem to genuinely dislike each other and anakin seems like a huge jerk who is already pretty evil

then in ep3 they are the greatest friends in the world and anakin is a super nice guy, then in the middle he turns completely evil

thats the real problem, its not that anakins turn was too sudden, its that the dominos are lined up in the wrong order, this was the first movie of the PT where anakin was likeable

Really the way it should of worked is Obi-wan and anakins friendship in the first half of ep3 is how they should of been in episode 2. Brothers, who love and respect each other and love getting into mischief with each other. Then that should of been put to the test by the end of Ep2, with their arguement on the gunship. that should of been the first crack in the otherwise perfect friendship

then in ep3 they've grown more distant of each other and their interaction would be the way it was in Ep2, where they are always getting on each others nerves and bickering.

then it would be a logical progession to anakins turn.

after Ep2 I was one of those people who said that GL had skrewed up by not showing the friendship between obi-wan and anakin. Some people on these boards said to wait until episode3. I doubted them but ultimately they were correct beyond my wildest dreams, but it does feel like GL was once again responding to fan reaction. two of the biggest complaints after ep2 was we still hadn't really seen anakin as a great starpilot and the friendship was not properly shown. then that happened right off the bat in ep3. coincidence maybe but I tend to think GL takes audience reaction to heart a little bit more then he claims.

So ultimately it made ep3 better and made it fit better with the OT that we got to see that awesome friendship finally. I loved when Obi-wan was saying goodbye to anakin on the landing platform and he smiled "farewell old friend" with genuine affection. this is the first prequel where obi-wan seemed like a real person and not some thumb up his butt company man. I really couldn't stand him in ep1 or ep2, and ep3 made him likeable again.

Its just weird that the prequel arc for these two is:

1)in

 

I agree with your analyztion of the character arc thing, but I don't think it was fully intentional. George probably realized that he had to make their friendship more believable after he saw the reactions from AOTC. I think overall the character interactions were a lot more believable this time.

 

Despite the fact I'm often labeled a basher, I'm going to refute the more ridiculous points made here:

"1) If Anakin is a virgin birth of metaclorines how come he has a "brother" about whom we learn quite alot in Star Wars, who knows alot about Anakin's past as Luke tells Obi-wan."

Owen is Anakins step brother, they are not biologically related. It would of been better if Lucas had better established a dynamic between Anakin, obi=wan and owen, but your particular argument makes no sense.

"2) Leia remembers her mother and describes her as very beautiful, very sad etc but her mother's already dead, and don't give me this stuff about her being force sensitive and remembering her mother when she was mere minutes old."

This is a bit problematic, and could of easily have been remedied with a short scene of Padme holding Leia and looking into her eyes. some quiet tender closeups. Then before they can hand her Luke, she expires. Alas GL didn't do that. So admittedly you're right about this one

"3) Palpatine says oh you killed Padme.... and you think there's no way Anakin/Vader could find out what happened for real, come on people lets not be blinded!!!!"

thats arguable. Only bail, yoda and Obi-wan know what really happened. Vader doesn't know about polis massa. nor does he know organa was involved. so whom would he find out from?

"4)Obi-wan hands Luke his father's lightsabre.. he wanted you to have this says Obi. Nope never did and Anakin's was red, Luke's is white."

Ummmm. have you seen any of the movies? Anakins saber was blue. Obi-wan took it from the edge of the lava river after leaving anakin for dead. At no point did anakin have a red saber, except when he beheaded dooku.

Luke uses that same blue saber in ANH and ESB.


"5) Grevious and his heavy breathing. Clearly he's proto-Vadar creation, but though he might have had a shriveled up heart in his metal skeleton he has no lungs, after all if he did he'd have died when blown into space in the fight on the bridge."

Just like han solo would of frozen and imploded when he went out onto the asteroid with just an asthma mask

"6)In Star Wars Leia's hologram says that Obi-wan fought for her father in the Clone Wars. No he didn't, Organa isn't shown fighting anyone in the Clone wars he has no standing in the Jedi Council and there is no rebel alliance for him to command or Obi-wan to be a member of. "

Agreed

"7) "Strange" says was Obi-wan in the gorge when he rescues Luke, I don't remember owning a droid.... you don't remember the R2 unit you called by name and took with you on various missions to save the republic. A droid by the way who doesn't have his memory wiped...

Its not perfect, but elements in Guinesses performance can be construed as him and R2 knowingly keeping secrets from Luke

"8) Don't even get me started on asking why Darth doesn't recognize his own driods later on, one of which he built himself!!!"


Vader never sees r2 or 3p0 in the OT

 

As for Obi-Wan not recognizing R2, he never said that he didn't recognize it, he just said that "I don't remember ever owning a droid." in ANH.

 

"I agree with your analyztion of the character arc thing, but I don't think it was fully intentional. George probably realized that he had to make their friendship more believable after he saw the reactions from AOTC. I think overall the character interactions were a lot more believable this time."

That seems most likely to me. Even the elevator scene in AOTC was added in at the last minute when he realized the friendship did not come across. Mr.Lucas dropped the ball with the friendship but he managed to pick it back up with incredible panache!

 

Leia remembers her mother and describes her as very beautiful, very sad etc but her mother's already dead, and don't give me this stuff about her being force sensitive and remembering her mother when she was mere minutes old.

When Leia describes her mother to Luke, she does not yet know that she's a Skywalker. When Luke says, "Your real mother," Leia would assume that she's still an Organa. Her "mother" could have died when Leia was very young, and could have been sad because the fall of the Republic almost brought about her husband's death...

 

Good morning!
I thought this as good a place to step in as any, as I haven't posted here in quite a long time. I must say that ROTS has restored my faith in the Star Wars series, where AOTC had caused it to slip somewhat (although most of my contemporaries lauded AOTC over what they perceived to be a slow and commerce-driven first episode (TPM), I still prefer TPM over the second effort, TPM being more character driven and featuring the sweetener of Qui-Gon Jinn *obvious bias here*.) ROTS, however, blows both of them away and does what I am sure Lucas intended--ties Episode 3 to Episode 4.

In the process of this unique tying of 2005 to 1977, I find strange returns to childhood surfacing and "A New Hope" entering back in to an adulthood that had lost its way for a long while. Although I have fallen off in posting to any message boards for reasons that inevitably follow with any forum that admits many individual points of view, I found it irresistible to write at least the "OMG, I just saw ROTS and it is so KEWL!!!" post on theforce.net (a site I joined way back in 1999) once again.

I find the old questions rising to the fore again in the light of Anakin's fall to the Dark Side of the Force, the old arguments churning through top level consciousness, etc... I am resolved not to argue too hard about the fundamental illusion of "Light Side" and "Dark Side" of the Force, although it is tempting.

I did enjoy the (probably intentionally) obfuscated viewpoint that lead to the mental stalemate in Anakin's mind of who to trust. I found that the Jedi seemed to be just as much at fault as Palpatine, the Sith, the political situation, etc. for muddling Anakin's perceptions. Mace, I think, handled Palpatine's arrest badly and made a muddle of his points to Anakin. I can honestly see why Anakin would not trust the Jedi, but I cannot excuse his fall. The slaughter at the Jedi Temple absolutely negates any good intention that Anakin might have had in his distrust of the status quo. He makes the "any means to a good end" mistake, although I must say he ends up looking like a chump when we see how deftly he has been used by Sidious.

But all this threatens to become an analysis, so on to other stuff. I thought some gave it up too easy, especially Dooku and Mace--I fully expected Mace to land on some platform, stunned, and come back for more. But the pacing doesn't allow for that, I suppose. Grievous was an amusing sideshow, and seems to be the argument for one-upsmanship in the number of lightsabers one being can wield at one time. Although I secretly wished to see the young Han Solo, I realized he was probably just TOO young for this one, and I let it go.

The best performance IMO would have to be Ewan McGregor--he brings that playful attitude to the right level. Obi-Wan Kenobi emerges as a fully realized character with dimensions lightly hinted at but obviously contained within him--the suggestion of past that hangs over Sir Alec Guiness in ANH is already implicit in Ewan's demeanor. On the minus side, I found Hayden Christenson's acting distracting at times, and the words "paper bag" arose on a few occasions. The story was structured well enough, though, not to detract from the power of his fall to the Dark Side. (Then again, I remember the underpowered "What?" from Carrie Fisher in ANH and realize just where the strengths of this series lie...)

Anyway, enough from me. I figured I could take up some space, as it has been several years since I did so here...

Cheers!
Lyta

 

From crap to cream- from suck to sweet:

Okay, so the first time I went to see ROTS, I was by myself. I sat down at about the middle row with a good view. Well, as fate would have it, this huge guy comes and sits down in front of me. His head took up a good part of the screen. Frustrated, I got up and walked to the back of the theater next to the exit to look for another good seat. Once again, fate intervenes. As soon as I get to the back- the lights go down. Damn it. I just sit down in the seat next to the exit. There is a light on over the exit, and I was really bummed that it stayed on during the whole movie- but I don't think it bothered me to some great extent.

Well, the movie starts and I was okay until after the ship crashed on Coruscant. Things started moving too quickly. I hated Sam Jackson's portrayal of Mace Windu right off the bat. Things were okay, but a little lame until Obi-Wan goes to Utapau. I began to become detatched from the movie. Frankly, I began to think the CGI was absolutely horrible. I was a bit surprised (in a bad way) at how bad. I hated Obi-Wan vs. Greivous. It seemed to me like the two weren't even on the same proverbial page. Like the actor was just swinging at something that wasn't there, and the CGI wasn't even reacting to the actor- just swinging at something that wasn't there- and they weren't even 'connecting' in a realistic fashion.

I was upset to say the least. There was a bit of crowd movement. People would get up to go for a drink or to the restroom in the middle of something that should've been cool, but didn't seem to be. Then came order 66, and I was too detatched to even care. The Jedi were being mowed down and all I could think was "this CGI is atrocious, and this is lame". I thought the same thing during the Yoda/Sidious battle. Toward the end there were some brief glimpses of things that weren't too bad.

When it ended, I was really bummed out. I was thinking, as I drove home, how absolutely terrible the movie was. How I would be sitting with my friends on Sunday sharing a bitter disappointment. I thought about all of those good and great reviews given over at RT which I had been following for a time. I thought "my God in heaven- how on earth can those people have thought that such tripe was anything but awful? Did George Lucas pay them off? Are they just in some conspiracy to get the movie industry in full force for summer? How in the name of God can people be so dishonest?" I was sure they were dishonest because no one in their right mind would call what I had just witnessed 'good' by any stretch of the imagination.

Anyway, I went home and was bummed out all day. That was it. I floated around 3sa for about an hour. I saw at the initial reaction threads some people expressing exactly what I felt. Bitter disappointment. Their reasons being virtually the same as mine. I have always tried to be of the mind "if you can't say something nice, etc." so I didn't post anything. I just anguished.

I saw some responses to the bad posts "See it again- see it again- I didn't like it, but when I saw it again, I loved it." I thought cynically to myself, "Yeah, right. Who are you trying to fool? No amount of repeat viewing is going to make that garbage into good."

Next day my cousin calls me. "How was it?" he asks. I said something like "interesting question" and did a little ambiguous talk so I didn't have to come right out and say "Lame with a capital L". I told him that I was trying not to influence his decision. He was spoiler free, and I wanted him to tell me what he thought after he saw it. I didn't have the heart to tell him how lame it was. He would see for himself- I was sure.

The day after that he calls me up again- "Hey, me and Phil are going to see e3, want to go with us?" I said "Well, I'm not going to pay another $7 to see it." "I'll pay your way," he said. So, I agreed. It was the last new SW film we would ever see together, so what the hell.

So, here we are, back in the theater. I'm kind of bummed just thinking about how bummed he is going to be. I

 

>>>>In Ep1 anakin is a nice boy who is basically indifferent about obi-wan, and obi-wan is highly doubtful and condescending about him.

But......he apologises to Qui-Gon for his condescending nature, saying that it is not his place to comment on Anakin. And then agrees to commit to his mentor's dying plea to train the boy.

>>>>In episode2 we are told they are friends, but they seem to genuinely dislike each other

Or.......in Ep II it is clear they are friends, based on their scene in the elevator and the fact that Anakin risks his own life to save his friend's. Yes. They bicker. Because Anakin is just like any other teenage boy with a talent - he thinks he knows it all.

>>>> and anakin seems like a huge jerk who is already pretty evil.

Or.......Anakin is a mixed up kid who loves his mother dearly but can't come to terms with the possibility of losing her, and therefore crosses the line when his mother is murdered by a bunch of savages.....

>>>>then in ep3 they are the greatest friends in the world and anakin is a super nice guy, then in the middle he turns completely evil

Or........their freindship has naturally grown, as Anakin has matured, but he again shows the same predeliction (with less justification) for revenge, when he kills Dooku in cold blood. Then in the middle he spirals down into darkness as he turns towards evil in order to save the one he loves.

Sound like a good arc to me....


-JR

 

"When Leia describes her mother to Luke, she does not yet know that she's a Skywalker. When Luke says, "Your real mother," Leia would assume that she's still an Organa. Her "mother" could have died when Leia was very young, and could have been sad because the fall of the Republic almost brought about her husband's death..."

No they are talking about padme. otherwise that scene is pointless

 

I think theres some interesting points being made here about Obi-Wan and Anakin's friendship. One point I now feel, is that given he doesn't really return in Episode III, Qui-Gon shouldn't have been the main focus of TPM. I feel thats where Lucas went wrong. It really should have been Obi-Wan who discovered Anakin, with Qui-Gon staying back on the ship. I feel so much of Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship was sacrificed for Qui-Gon Jinn. Don't get me wrong, I like Qui-Gon a lot, but his lack of involvment anywhere else in the Saga means his screen time can't be justified.

Just imagine if it was Obi-Wan who made the promise to Shmi that he would protect Anakin. If it was Obi-Wan who believed in the boy Anakin, when the Council wouldn't. That really would make ROTS even more powerful (not that it isn't already) Really, all the problems with Anakin and Obi-Wan realtionship go back to TPM, IMO.

 

I guess it's not a step too far according to Lucas. I'm afraid that you are just going to have to accept that Leia has a fantastic Force-assisted memory.

>>>>. Au contraire - if this memory thing is force inspired then explain why Luke ends up admitting "I have no memory of my mother. I never knew
her." and he's the stronger of the force twins... sorry you can't have it for one and not the other.

Accept, of course, that it is NOT right back at me.

Because the line you have quoted refers to the FUTURE, which is always in motion. Leia's memory is the PAST, based on what she remembered in the moment. Which is not always in motion. The past is something concrete that happened.

>>>> Crossed wires here, my original point re the future and vision was in reference to the visions that Anakin was having regarding the death of Padme. These are not fixed my argument is they are a poor excuse for this to be the basis of Anakin's to base his switch to the Dark Side. I would have given this more weight had there been signs of problems with the pregnancy along the way but there aren't.

The fact is that neither Yoda, Obi-Wan, Bail or R2 are going to tell him what happened to her. And Threepio can't tell him anymore. Padme is clearly shown to still be pregnant in the funeral on Naboo.

Vader is going to see the funeral, and know that he is the one who laid her out unconscious with his Force choking her. He knows that Kenobi tried to save her from his Force choking of her, so who else, pray tell, is he going to THINK killed her?

He'll see she's dead on the Holo news and think that he was responsible.

>>>>>Shown to be pregnant? She has a pillow up her dress!!!! I find your scenario quite funny but can't seriously follow your line of thinking. In fact if I do follow your line of thinking, that here I am a shell of a man, burned to a crisp, having killed my colleagues, possibly killed my wife what do I do... well kill myself actually. But if you can go along with it good luck to you.

You see. It's your use of the word 'IMPLIES', which shows that you are ALSO interpretting this in the way that suits you.

The same way that it's also an interpretation from Leia. Who wasn't there at the time.
Suspend some disbelief, my friend. It's not a plot hole.

>>>>> Sorry no. Leia is a powerful figure in the rebel alliance and you're suggesting she has had to interpret her father's remarks to her. Of course you could argue that perhaps her father was exagerating his level of involvement and making himself out to be a leader when he clearly wasn't but that way lies madness, speaking of which.

Yep. R2 is lying too. That is because he needs an excuse to get the message to Kenobi.

>>>>> Hello madness

The point of the matter is that Vader more than likely DOES recognise Threepio. But SO WHAT? Do you expect him to say "Hi Threepio, I'm so glad Mom didn't sell you or anything."...?

WHY do you think that Vader would acknowledge him, AT ALL?

Anakin Skywalker is dead to him, remember? : "That name no longer has any meaning for me..."

>>>>> We're not doing this - look its simple, GL figured he needed to keep his Laurel and Hardy couple in the mix despite the problem it throws up, the problem for people like me (and don't kid yourself, there's more of us out there than you'd like) is that it creates problems of plot believability, even in a 6 film sci-fi epic set in a galaxy far, far away.


No papering going on here, my friend. Just givin' you the facts.

>>>>>> Ah I know you'd so like it to be convincing, but its not ;-)

 

This film just gets better and better the more I think about it. Damn.

It it just me? Is there anyone else who feels this way?

I think that almost no one understood this film--not even the people who liked it.

Wow.

Huh.

 

Runecrow

Interesting that you would only go back because a friend would pay for you, but not with your own cash, because you thought it was lame first round.

Your post proves why this movie MUST be seen twice.

It's strange that way, because I felt the same way, I thought thats why some critics wrote bad reviews.

Everybody should have watched this movie twice before writing a review.

It changes on you second time around.
A movie like that is unique.

I think it's because it's utter sensory overload visually, emotionally, mentally.

On second viewing the sensory overload is about half of what it was on first viewing, allowing you to absorb the full impact, and it actually changes your perception of the film, now how awesome is that?

 

"I think theres some interesting points being made here about Obi-Wan and Anakin's friendship. One point I now feel, is that given he doesn't really return in Episode III, Qui-Gon shouldn't have been the main focus of TPM. I feel thats where Lucas went wrong. It really should have been Obi-Wan who discovered Anakin, with Qui-Gon staying back on the ship. I feel so much of Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship was sacrificed for Qui-Gon Jinn. Don't get me wrong, I like Qui-Gon a lot, but his lack of involvment anywhere else in the Saga means his screen time can't be justified.

Just imagine if it was Obi-Wan who made the promise to Shmi that he would protect Anakin. If it was Obi-Wan who believed in the boy Anakin, when the Council wouldn't. That really would make ROTS even more powerful (not that it isn't already) Really, all the problems with Anakin and Obi-Wan realtionship go back to TPM, IMO."

I agree 150%

and everything we like about quigon would still be in the film it would just be Obi doing it. Imagine Obi-wan cheating watto at dice and bickering about the price of a hyper drive

Quigon could of been the by the book jedi who kept telling Kenobi it was a bad idea to train anakin, and then when he dies Obi-wan is free to do as he likes

But then I also would of had shmi and anakin living on the lars homestead in ep1 to get the lars introduced sooner and allow obiwan to know them and be "a bad influence" on anakin from owen's point of view

 

From my point of view ROTS is the worst of the whole series. The dialogue and acting is the worst of the PT and it is poorly written. This movie was also poorly edited and put together.