*OFFICIAL THREAD* Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep III Discussion Thread--Part 6

I usually just lurk in this thread, so I hope you don't mind me popping in to add my two credits. And my apologies if I'm repeating anything that's already been posted.

There is no doubt in my mind that Obi-Wan won the duel. I've seen the film six times already (woo-hoo!), and there were several instances were he could have won earlier and simply killed Anakin. He was holding out until the very end. The one time that stuck out in my mind was when Anakin leaped off the little lava droid and onto the floaty-thingy that Obi-Wan was on. Anakin lands on the very edge and has to flail his arms to keep his balance. One little Force push from Obi-Wan, and the Chosen One would have ended up in lava.

I'm halfway through the novel right now, and am enjoying it. One of the better adaptions. I love the addition of Obi-Wan quips, especially during the Palpatine rescue because I can totally picture Ewan saying those lines. I just finished up the "Making Of RotS" book, and Ewan, as he did with the other two films, brought a lot of laughter to the set. "Not to worry, we're still flying half a ship" was an ad lib on his part Lucas loved and decided to keep. And during the Palpaine rescue, Lucas decides he wants the two Jedi to add a salutation to their meeting. Ewan ad-libs with "Greetings Chancellor, today you are being rescued by Jedi Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker."

One more thing, and then I'll be quiet. Got my Entertainment Weekly (largest entertainment magazine in the US) in the mail yesterday. Each week they have a "Must List" that talks about the best things of the week in entertainment. On it this week: "Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid: The great Scots turn in marvelous performances (one nuanced, one scenery-chewing) that define the moral spectrum of Revenge of the Sith."

Yay for our boy!

Andé

 

Handmaidenande, you can add your 2 cents anytime. Thanks for that information. I didn't know any of those things(great EW quotes by the way, Go Scotland! )

What did he say?

And the milkmen will inherit the earth.

Milkmen?

Well, I'm sure that's all dairy producers.

LOL Jovieve, too funny. That's how rumors get started.

 

I'm absolutely appalled that the AA's are so resolved to covering for Anakin that they have even ignored the ENTIRE LESSON of the saga.

"I'd've done the same thing as Anakin!"
"The Jedi were cold/rude/disrespectful meanies who should have recognized Anakin's greatness and worshipped him as a god. Their failure helped turn Anakin. It was THEIR fault."
"Anakin was just in love, it wasn't his fault. The Jedi should have become Fantasy Island and let them do whatever he wanted because he's special and so in lurve, that's what's important in life." rolling_eyes

They are committed to completely reinterpretating the Saga as 'not Anakin's fault'.

It would seem that way Jovieve.I looked at RotJ and I am so disappointed in Anakin. I am like here is your son with half of the training you had speaking up for himself and you with even full training never spoke up to the empereror until that last act and that was a suprise move but still for your children to fight on after you destroyed everything in their lives, I really appreciate Obi-Wan,Luke and Leia that much more.

 

I almost feel the need to start a new topic for my question, but since this thread discusses Obi-Wan, I'd like some help figuring out one part of ROTS.

I've seen ROTS 4 times now, and every time during the fight scene with Obi-Wan and Anakin vs. Dooku, it really looked like Obi-Wan got crushed.

Dooku launched Obi-Wan across the room where he slammed into a wall and hit the floor. Then Dooku dropped a huge chunk of flooring on top of Obi-Wan. It appeared to me that the big chunk absolutely crushed Obi-Wan's legs and smeared them across the floor. However, after Anakin killed Dooku, he ran over to check on Obi-Wan and found that he was just "knocked out."

Did anyone else see a problem with this scene? Was it a GL "oops" or do I need to get new glasses? Maybe there should have been a close-up shot wedged in there to show that Obi-Wan didn't actually get squished.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.

4ceful1

 

I saw it to. It's just another example of Lucas' lame editing. Not to worry though, I'm sure it will be followed up by a lame excuse on the commentary.

 

4ceful1

Yeah, I noticed it too. It looked as if that platform completely crushed Obi-Wan. If I remember correctly, it even moved him a foot or so across the floor.

Then when Anakin checks on him, he's not even caught up under the platform. Yeah I think it's just lame editing.

 

You're right 4ceful.

Bad continuity or editing or whatever.

It looked like it crushed his hipbone. Someone in the movie winced watching that. Was it Palpatine?

The only 'it's just a movie' excuse I can give GL is maybe a GFFA has superlight alloys. The catwalk just looks heavy.

Lame, I know.

Another nice ROTS Obi-Wan moment:

On Mustafar, when Anakin is crying over the massacre at - oh, hell, name your favorite Anakin massacre location - the sun is eclipsing black through the clouds. Looks evil, dark, cool as s--t.

On Mustafar, when Obi-Wan is saying he will 'do as he must', behind him, the sun is emerging from the eclipse, so behind Obi-Wan is the shining light of an emerging sun. Anakin is facing it. I'm sure he finds it blinding.

Nice chiascuro moment.

 

When Anakin walked up to Obi-Wan after killing Dooku, it seemed like there was about a foot of space between the catwalk and the floor. I'm glad ya'll saw the goofup, too. The Jedi have a lot of powers, but instantly regenerating legs isn't one that I've ever heard of.

Thanks for the feedback, folks.

4ceful1

 

I only saw it one time..........What are you people talking about? Obi-Wan was warning Lameakin thoughout the whole duel. There was no point in the entire duel that Lameakin had the upper hand. They were never even, in power or wisdom.

This guy loved that fool ass jerk, and tried even untill the end to make him feel good about himself. AnaJudasLameakin really betrayed everything, and everyone. I would like to know what reason Beanakin would have for hating Obi-Wan?

Padelame did not even give Lame ass Analame the compliments Ben did.

"I hate YOU".............WHY????

Obi-Wan is the man. I dont know how a person could walk away from this movie and not at least understand the most noble (yes noble) of all the Jedi. Yoda even looks Lame, compared to the understanding, most humble, super Jedi.............Obi-Wan.

 

Lucas needs to back off and get some distance from being everywhere at once. I mean he has to have some say in what goes into his movie but enough is enough. Back off man...take a breath,, look at the movie then moved forward. Lucas is an editing addict. He edits the movie until it basiclly feels like every scene is just a bookmark instead of the chapter. granted he had alot to fit in this last movie but at least let the movie evolve on it's own, stop trying to make every scene a tie-in...ok we get it this is a tie in, back off and see where this leads us. There's no mystery because everything is either over explained or just a placemat for what should have made sense. By the way Obi-wan was the most interesting thing about the movie, I could care for him more than Anakin. Anakin was to cardboard for me. I did like the movie for what it was, a tie in nothing more.

 

I've been looking at the Does the Duel prove that Obi-Wan is better dueler than Anakin? thread.

*sigh*

 

Jovieve, Naw,

Mace, in Stovers adaptation, is implying that with a lightsaber, Obi-Wan Kenobi has no equal.

Obi-Wan's form (E.U. rubbish) is based almost exclusively on defense. That is why Mace refers to Obi-Wan not as A master, but rather THE Master. Later Stover describes Obi-Wan's style as being the "eye of the storm." This is infact how he overcomes all adversity.


Dooku could not best Obi-Wan with a lightsaber. He had to resort to using the Force. People misconstrue that scene as reflecting badly on Obi-Wan, when in reality it demonstrates how far Obi-Wan has grown in ability since AOTC, where Dooku bested Obi-Wan with a saber technique.

Grievous attacked Obi-Wan with 4 blades simultaneously and Obi-Wan was amused by that. He completely dismissed Grievous' skills.

Anakin was a proverbial wrecking ball. An absolute maelstrom of blue energy attacking Obi-Wan. Yet Obi-Wan weathered that barrage like a champion. It even plainly states in the novel it is Obi-Wans way and choice to always give ground. Always defense.

Obi-Wan is not an aggressive fighter. He is pure defense. The epitome of defense. Nothing or no-one can penetrate Obi-Wan's defenses.

Mace was suggesting to Obi-Wan to be HIMSELF, and do what he does best, and as a result, Grievous could never beat him. By focusing and putting himself at the "eye of the storm", Obi-Wan can never fail.

 

Nice post, joshua. I didn't think about that interpretation of the Dooku duel but it does suggest that Dooku had to use the extra Force tricks to get Obi-Wan out of the way because he *couldn't* beat him with a lightsaber this time.

As for the catwalk -- I've seen it four times, and I'm pretty sure that when it falls it doesn't really crush Obi-Wan but only pins him because there are supporting struts or something on the bottom of the catwalk. So it looks like this: |__| upside down. Wow, I'm having way more trouble describing that than I would think. Oh well. I'll check again the next time I see it but I think that's the answer.

 

The movie showed a confident, calm and dominant Obi-Wan. I cant believe that there are still people trying to turn that duel into something it was not. They seem to ingnore every piece of dialog before, during , and afer the duel. "I failed you Anakin" is one that comes to mind. That does not sound like a man being dominated. It sounds like yet another warning to Lameakin, that he is in over his head. The duel plays out like this very obviously. Vader is wasting multiple chances, until finally Obi-Wan sees there is no reasoning with him. Befor the duel, we know Obi-Wan does not want to kill Anakin/Vader. We know he still dose not when he talks to Vader. "Palpatine is evil" and so forth. Obi-Wan warns that jackass Vaderkin "not to try it", and still gets a bad rap from drooling Anakin Freaks.

 

I know it's only natural to want to defend Obi-Wan in those threads but I've learned that its just not worth it because there will be no convincing the AA's and more often then not it ends up turning into a pissing contest.

Again as for the opening duel with Dooku, again Palpatine clearly helps Dooku out so it really doesn't reflect negatively on Obi-Wan's character(except to the AA's who will use anything in order to tear Kenobi down but we all know they are just jealous because they can't handle the fact that Anakin got spanked in the the final confrontation with Kenobi)at all.

 

True!! True!! ..........AA's Im very guilty of going into those threads and starting a fire, but after awhile its like...... "Did you even read my post, you drooling, disfuntional, hormone inbalanced, common sence lacking, tastless, ignorant, puke face, looser". Thats what Im thinking anyway.

 

Same here. I do a preliminary defense of Obi-Wan on those threads, but for a few tough nuts, it's mostly an 'opinion' thread and not a discussion thread. People just dive in, don't read the thread or any parts of it, post their opinion and leave.

The Grievous fight, I noticed a huge opening. At the very beginning of the fight, after Grievous has put a new laser-cutout design on the floor, Obi-Wan is watching him closely, timing his move to block and when he does, I only see him block 2 blades, the other two Grievous is still holding down and at his sides. IMO this left Obi-Wan wide open.

Did anyone else see this?

Other than that, I really enjoyed their battle. Obi-Wan appears fully absorbed in the Force and it gives him a kind of peaceful euphoria, "...Obi-Wan saw death...but it meant nothing. There was no death, there was only the Force..." It hit home to me just recently that especially in the opening battle and later in the Grievous fight that Obi-Wan has that same gentle, amused expression Ben wears for most of ANH. As if he's watching everything from some great distance.

Wonderful character. Super subtle acting by Ewan. Obi-Wan's played like a real sensei. Most all of them are not flashy or bold individuals at all.

 

BIG FAT COCKS

 

Yes that's right Ewan/Obi-Wan does have a big cock. Thanks for coming in here to point that out.

I know exactly what you guys mean. Some of the AAs just make me laugh, especially when they say that Anakin was "kicking Obi-Wan's ass" until the last moment when he lost due to his big mistake so it was him defeating himself. I guess Anakin just happened to fly onto Obi-Wan's lightsaber blade at exactly the right positions in order to get his arm and legs slashed.

The funniest thing is they can't find anything to argue about the draw between the force-push contest so they say that Anakin is stronger because he got up more quickly than Obi-Wan did. Now that's LAME.

 

I like how Lucas validated Old Ben's monologue from ANH regarding Anakin's fate,subsequently disarming the ammunition critics utilise to asassinate Obi-Wan's character.

"A young Jedi named Dahhth Vader, who was a pupil of mine before he turned to eeeeville, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father, now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the Darkside of the Force."

He was indeed a young Jedi, now named Daaahth Vader. He was indeed a pupil of Obi-Wan's prior to becoming eeeeeville. He did indeed HELP the EMPIRE hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. People wanted to see, or assumed Daaahth Vader did it personally, and single handedly, they forgot this monologue.
Daaahth Vader did indeed murder and betray Anakin. The good man that he was died. Indeed the Jedi are all but extinct, save Obi-Wan and Yoda, and perhaps a few stragglers left for the E.U. and purported TV series. Seduction, is as good a term as any to describe the process which murdered Anakins character precipitating the persona of Daaahth Vader.

So I ask you,those who presume to refer to Obi-Wan as a liar, given ROTS how is the Sith Killer a liar now??? Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[face_hug]

 

[image=http://img297.echo.cx/img297/6056/pdvd0141rx.jpg]

Look at that pose! Need I say more about how Obi Wan is the best!

 

Holy hell! That's hot!

 

People say Anakin is stronger not b/c of the fight, but Lucas and Gillard said that many times, and the Dooku fight. Its intresting that so many people in this thread still bash Anakin so much after ROTS, They were real friends in this movie, well until he turned, he carried Kenobi out on his back, and saved his life what 10 times, what an a$$hole. I agree that the duel did not show Anakin to be stronger, they seemed equal. The Dooku fight sure did though, a clonetrooper could have fought as good as Kenobi did in that fight, good thing Anakin was there to save the day. oh and AA is Anakin apoligist right? I think George Lucas is an AA.

 

The moment he killed little kids, he gives up hero status. There is just so much to bash Lamekin for. Lucas wrote him as a lame ass attention craving looney. Obi-Wan was written as a humble, noble, intimidating moral icon. Its that simple. I think the fact that he tries to murder Obi-Wan takes away all the times he saved Ben. "I hate you"...........still trying to figure that one out!! Shouldent have jumped when he told you not to. Now you are not only lame in character, but really lame.

 

Zam

GL says Anakin is more powerful. More powerful does not equate to 'better than'. The AA's have a lot of trouble with this. I don't know why. If they were all fanboys I'd understand because they'd all be of the same age mentality as Anakin. But they're not. Oh, well. [shrugs] Guess they'll have to have their legs and arms chopped off to learn better as well.

And does the count of who saved who mean Anakin saved Obi-Wan's life every single time during their 13 year relationship? Highly unlikely. Considering Obi-Wan's a master and Anakin is not, considering Anakin says Obi-Wan will 'need' him on Utapau and Obi-Wan doesn't need him at all. I'd say it's just a friendly match.