*OFFICIAL THREAD* Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep III Discussion Thread--Part 6

Im also and Obi-wan fan, but you guys give other Obi fans a bad name. you guys never take it acount that Obi-wan made alot of mistakes throughout the prequel trilogy. I mean up until Revenge of the sith Kenobi always put down and made Anakin feel like a lesser person. All through Attack of the clones Obi-wan never could see how angry all his words made Anakin. Anakin skywalker was becomeing powerful to powerful for Obi-wan to control and he new that.

now in Revenge of the Sith he made up for most of that. Him and Anakin were truly friends and brothers, and Obi-wan came off as better Jedi. But, Kenobi had excepted the fact Skywalker had become a "better Jedi then he could ever be" and also a celebrity among the Republic. you other Obi fans seem alittle to conceded and don't take into account Anakin has always saved Obi-wans life. In attack of the clones he saved Obi-Wan from Count Douku. IN Sith he carried Obi-wans body out of a falling ship!

Now in their final duel it was obvious to anyone who saw the duel Kenobi was being backed down the entire time. That does not lesson Kenobi as most of you "Fans" think, it makes him even better. Vader was comeing strong and Kenobi new trying ot stop a Bulldozer with a rock would not work. So he did the best he could until he outsmarted Anakin near the end. If you ask Lucas Obi-wan was the underdog in that duel, but we always love to cheer for the underdog right?

 

Obi-Wan defeated Anakin with superior saber skills, patience,
strategy and intelligence. He was on the defensive because thats
his style and it's also the best one to use to defeat an
impatient overly aggressive fighter like Anakin.
Anakin didn't even leave a scratch on Obi-Wan, even with all
the dark side and supposed power he has Obi-Wan defeated him
pretty handily. Perhaps Anakin's biggest weakness is his
general stupidity. Lets face it he showed an incredible lack
of intelligence or strategic thinking in the duel or
in his life for that matter.

I think you are the one that is deluded or biased. The truth is
in the movie if you want to see. Vader is armless and legless and
burnt to a crisp and Obi-Wan is perfect (in more ways than one).
He is the greatest Jedi ever.

 

Ruthio

Im also and Obi-wan fan, but you guys give other Obi fans a bad name. you guys never take it acount that Obi-wan made alot of mistakes throughout the prequel trilogy. I mean up until Revenge of the sith Kenobi always put down and made Anakin feel like a lesser person.

How did Obi-Wan put Anakin down? By expecting him to act like a Jedi and not like an immature little kid when he's had 10 years of training?

All through Attack of the clones Obi-wan never could see how angry all his words made Anakin.

Anakin's angry because he knows Obi-Wan is right, but he blames Obi-Wan anyway, even though all his failings are his own fault. I'm sure you're not blaming Obi-Wan for Anakin's mistakes, are you?

Anakin skywalker was becomeing powerful to powerful for Obi-wan to control and he new that.

Well, only Sith 'control' other people. Anakin is supposed to control HIMSELF. You know, be a REAL Jedi?

now in Revenge of the Sith he made up for most of that. Him and Anakin were truly friends and brothers, and Obi-wan came off as better Jedi.

That's cause he's rid of Anakin. He's not his teacher anymore. I'd be relieved and a lot happier too.

But, Kenobi had excepted the fact Skywalker had become a "better Jedi then he could ever be"

But Anakin wasn't, was he? It was all a lie. A lie - Obi-Wan trusting Anakin - believed.

you other Obi fans seem alittle to conceded and don't take into account Anakin has always saved Obi-wans life. In attack of the clones he saved Obi-Wan from Count Douku.

After Anakin put Obi-Wan's life in danger in the first place by running ahead by himself when Obi-Wan told him not to. Wonder if he always 'saves' Obi-Wan's life because HE got him in trouble in the first place? Ya think?

Now in their final duel it was obvious to anyone who saw the duel Kenobi was being backed down the entire time. That does not lesson Kenobi as most of you "Fans" think, it makes him even better.

Well, you know Obi-Wan fights defensively, right? I mean you being the big Obi-Wan fan that you are. That means he does give ground. He doesn't want to fight or kill Anakin.

Vader was comeing strong and Kenobi new trying ot stop a Bulldozer with a rock would not work. So he did the best he could until he outsmarted Anakin near the end.

Anakin never even gave Obi-Wan a scratch despite his 'coming on strong'. Never touched him at all until ANAKIN ended up in pieces on the ground. It's called tactics and strategy and good defense. It's called being better.

If you ask Lucas Obi-wan was the underdog in that duel, but we always love to cheer for the underdog right?

Did he say so? Please give the quote.

 

And Anakin didn't make his share of mistakes?

The thing about Obi-Wan is, he's not going to sugarcoat things for Anakin the way Palpatine and Padme do. It's because he truly cares about Anakin, the way a parent does. When Anakin goes on his solo mission, Obi-Wan ends it by saying 'may the Force be with you' and smiling kindly to his apprentice. He tells Anakin he needs him in the fight with Dooku, that he can't take Dooku without Anakin, and has enough faith in him to toss him the second saber on Geonosis. At the beginning of the film, in the elevator, it's obvious that they are friends. Obi-Wan even jokes about Anakin's anxiety concerning seeing Padme again. If he kept saying 'oh Anakin, you're so perfect and powerful,' it would have only crippled Anakin in the end. The kid was overconfident as it is. Obi-Wan wants to make Anakin a good Jedi and a good person. That means that he needs to make sure Anakin holds himself accountable for mistakes, which is why Anakin only told Padme and Palpatine about the sandpeople slaughter. Obi-Wan would have heard the confession, and want Anakin to atone for his mistakes. Anakin wants to think he's always right, that he's superior. That's why he so easily goes along with what Palpatine tells him. Anakin has a lot of ego, that cannot be denied. Padme just lies for him, in AOTC and ROTS. Obi-Wan wants to save Anakin from himself. Obi-Wan's the only one who really cared for him in a healthy, loving way...and he's the one that gets dumped on.

 

i myself think you all have amazeing points. But, we all know skywalker made his mistakes thats the most obvious thing in the prequels. You guys talk about Obi-wans"defensive style". If you recall back in Phantom menace Obi-wan took the offensive after Darth Maul killed his master. Kenobi came at him hard and strong and tapped into the darker side of his skills. I beleived that Padwan Obi-wan in Phantom menace showcased the best solo saber skills i have ever seen in the saga or books etc. I always wondered why Kenobi was weaker in the Attack of the clones. He was wiser, but he seemd more solid in Revenge of the sith.

 

Obi-Wan had clearly changed his style since The Phantom Menace. He changed it to a less ostentatious, more defensive style as opposed to a more aggressive, offensive style.

 

Because he tapped into his anger after Qui-Gon got killed that he almost got killed as well. Obi-Wan changes his style as such and he isn't weaker in AoTC it's just that his opponent(Dooku)is someone who's much more powerfull and skilled at that point.

 

It really, truly never ceases to amaze me that when it comes to Obi-wan, there's some sort of collective brain fart that prevents people from realizing that Obi-wan's styles have matured and changed over the years. Largely due to the fact that GL introduced him as a padawan learner in TPM, what would make you think that he would stay the same over the course of 13 years? He would develop and grow, like normal people are supposed to do.

Taping into the darkside is not a plus, it's a minus. It's quick, it's easy and it's stupid. Because when you rely on anger, fear, etc., you loose focus. Obi-wan was able to recover with Maul because he calmed himself down and used his head to get out of the situation, while Maul was wasting time struttin' his stuff and basking in his moment of "victory".

Jovieve-your post about Obi-wan's handling of Anakin in AOTC is well said.

 

More Lameness WOW!!! Whats with all the kindness cookies? Obi-Wan was cruel to Lameakin? When? Where? I seem to remember a head strong Anakin never listening to Obi-Wan and getting Limbs choped off because of it. AOTC and ROTS. Has it ever accured to you kindness cookies, that Obi-Wan was trying to discipline the brat Anakin? Was he supposed to say......."Yes Anakin whatever you want". NO!! He was his frickin master!!! He was supposed to point out what Anakin was doing or saying wrong. Obi-Wan the big meanie

P.S. People are arguing that Lameakin beat Dooku, so he's better than Obi-Wan. I think they are ignoring the fact that it apeared Anakin got angery before he defeated Dooku. I think he used the dark side. Any thoughts guys?

 

*ponders*

Am I the only freak who LOVES BOTH Obi-Wan and Anakin?? Are we supposed to only like one or the other?

 

I dont like Anakin because of the constant crybabyness. (I made up a word) I like Vader. At least he dont complain all the time. He makes a cool badie. Anakin was written to jerkafied. (another word)

 

Am I the only freak who LOVES BOTH Obi-Wan and Anakin?? Are we supposed to only like one or the other?


I think you are the lucky one, as the movie (and indeed the saga) works best if you care about both protagonists. Trouble is, GL has made both characters such polar opposites and thrown them at loggerheads with each other so much that it almost feels that we are supposed to choose. A little more subtlety in the writing might have achieved this for more people, but that obviously was not what Lucas went for.

Edit: spelling hurts my brain

 

I guess some females might look past the totall lack of self control, intelligence, and manlyness, because they have some kind of physical attaction to Hayden. Im serious. Anakin as a character is so anti-hero its jumping off the script. If your a guy like me, you would probably find him annoyingly weak minded and getto. Blamming everyone else for his lameness. There are some guys who dont get it either..........those arent the marrying kind ladies

Edit. Anakin might be lame, but Im the lamest speller ever

 

^^^^

Minus the getto part, Hayden isn't really that lame, he just has anger managment issues and doesn't know how to control his feelings


Goos-faba

 

Is that the big excuse for him killing children? Come on!! Your very statement is the reason why he is lame.

 

If your a guy like me, you would probably find him annoyingly weak minded and getto.

*boggles* all my male friends including my bf, all who are not ghetto and are all educated all like Anakin.

I personally don't find Anakin that whiny, especially for his situation, and age. THink about it, in AOTC he is supposed to be six years younger than Obi-Wan was in TPM and in ROTS he is supposed to be three years younger than Obi-Wan was in TPM.

As far as Obi-Wan I don't find him arrogant and cold-hearted like some claim. In fact, I am of the opposite opinion.

IMHO, I LOVE them both.

LIke someone posted earlier, I guess I'm the lucky one who LOVES both so the SW Saga is really enjoyable to me.

 

What do you like about him? His noble character? His fortitude?......maybe its his kindness? Tell me.

 

"Am I the only freak who LOVES BOTH Obi-Wan and Anakin?? Are we supposed to only like one or the other?"


I agree with Hawk and Soitcomestothis on this. You are probably one of the few lucky ones who do but I honestly don't see much to like in Anakin. He behaves like a complete brat in AoTC and I don't know how anybody in their right might can possibly say Obi-Wan treated him badly given how Anakin acted towards him. This idea that Obi-Wan was supposed to let the brat walk all over him and give him nothing but pats on the back for everthing Anakin did is obsurd because it doesn't work, it only reinforces the bad behavior because then said brat knows he can get away with it. Part of being a parent/guardian/mentor at the level that Obi-Wan is throughout the PT is knowing when you have to come down hard. Does Obi-Wan enjoy having to do this?.....Absolutely not. But it is something that needs to be done because Anakin is the kind of person who doesn't take the: "Please don't do that" method seriously. Given Anakin's disposition and his obsession with power he most likely views that as weakness. We learned very early in AoTC that they(Obi/Ani)are long beyond this given Anakin's pechant for not listening: "We will not go through this excersise again Anakin" cleary spells out a history of such ass-hattery on Anakin's part and Obi-Wan is done trying to reason with him and he gets right down to it and guess what, it worked, Anakin shut his trap and followed Obi-Wan's lead like he should've in the first place.

In RoTS Anakin isn't nearly as bad initially but we really don't get a lot of time to grow to like him more before he's off killing kids, choking his wife, and trying hard as hell to kill his former master. If Anakin wasn't Vader, I honestly don't think many fans would like him at all.

 

I like the way his hair was even worse than Lukes'.
I like the way he gets owned by the master.
I like the way I feel seeing Anakin apologists make excuses for his lacking. You see, I like some Anakin.

 

Sorry EMK, what Old Juan says pretty much caps it.

I also wanted to like Anakin, but his faults far outweighed his charm. It has to be there somewhere for both Padme and Obi-Wan to love him so much, but I don't see it.

Love must be blind indeed.

I think it's just his rebellious attitude (and all the black leather) that makes Anakin such an attraction to the AAs. Even though that idea is not completely thought through. Yes, Anakin is rebellious - but against what? Being helpful? Kind? Compassionate? Disciplined? Mature?

It's just rebellious to be rebellious. And such an attitude is very immature, IMO.

 

I do not think it is a matter of loving one and hating another. The problem is, is that love is not equal. The question at times is who do you love more, and why? There is no reason why one can?t enjoy both characters, but there is not equality to your favoritism.

The problem is many Obi-Wan favorers become defensive of their favorite character. This at many times causes them to dislike a character that hurts him. At many times Anakin does hurt him and this can cause an instant reaction towards Anakin. However this is the same for Anakin, in many parts of the movie one can interpret Obi-Wan hurting Anakin. Also for some reasons fans enjoy seeing their favorite character being injured be that emotional or physical. This can also prohibit many from liking the two characters of Obi-Wan and Anakin equally.

In the end I do not think you can truly like/love both characters equally. There is always one you will be cheering to win and the other to fail. However we can like both, that I do not disagree with, but there is an always more favored one.

*This is not meant to offend anyone just and opinion*

~Ganki *back-again!*

 

While Obi-Wan Kenobi is my favorite character and best demonstrates the integrity one can achieve if one aspires to such lofty heights, I like Anakin Skywalker. I empathize and somewhat relate to Anakin Skywalker and his plight.
I like the fact he was an extraordinarily gifted and pure hearted young child who evolved into a clearly bashful, awkward yet infinately talented young man that had a bright and meaningful future.
Much like Anakin I despise endings to things. I would give anything to hold moments frozen in time forever. I can relate to Anakin very much in that regard.
Now, as far as the choices Anakin makes, well, I don't know, since even though they are grounded in real life, the catalyst that precipitates these choices is quite fantasy oriented.
If some old man came up to me and said "hey fella, you can shoot lightning from your hands and stop people from dying if you do X,Y,and Z for me."
If this world was a world like Star Wars where such a claim couldn't be immediately dismissed as BS, and may perhaps have some basis in reality as it does in the Star Wars universe, well I might say "cool" and actually contemplate it.

Anakin's problem was he never had a father. In many ways he was the ultimate latchkey child. For though the Jedi-Order could offer him a home, support and compassion, the rigid confines of the dogma espoused and practised by the Order made a true father/son type relationship impossible. This doesn't reflect negatively on Obi-Wan, as he truly loved Anakin as a son. Obi-Wan just as Anakin is a product of his enviroment and upbringing. Obi-Wan simply didn't possess the necessary tools to give Anakin the type of fatherly support a natural father could have given him. Someone mentioned before that Padme' and Palpatine stroked Anakin's ego too much. Well, this is necessary in a father/son relationship; ever bit as necessary as the practical disciplinarian role Obi-Wan played. The problem is Anakin recieved too much of one and not the other and as a result began to resent the discipline because there was no ass kissing or ego stroking to compliment it. Anyone ever attended catholic school or been around nuns a great deal? You will know what I'm reffering to.
Much like Obi-Wan, I like Anakin for the man he SHOULD have and COULD have been. Unlike Palpatine, Anakin was never truly evil. I would make a pinky bet with anyone that there probably wasn't a day that went by in Anakin's life that he didn't wish he had died on the black shores of Mustafar. His hatred for himself is really the only thing that kept him alive anyway. A vicious neverending cycle of self-degradation. In which occasionally just to stoke the fires Palpatine would probably feed a line of BS. Or throw a bone here or there.
I personally think the story of Anakin Skywalker is a good story. A relevant story with a good message for people. I'm glad Lucas elected to tell this story infact and I really despise that there are no more films coming. I really hate chapters in life ending.

 

Sounds like some people are looking a little to hard to explain what I or others just simply explained in past posts. It has nothing to do with meaningless psyco babble. I really wish some folks would try to understand that the way Lucas wrote Anakin leaves little to like. The way he wrote Kenobi leaves all to much to like. Its a black and white issue (yes I went there), Lucas wrote him that way. Unless of course your talking about the 10 year old on Tattoine That doesent count seeing the 10 year old have more personality than his future self. More Lameness.

 

<<If your a guy like me, you would probably find him annoyingly weak minded and getto. Blamming everyone else for his lameness. >>

Well you know what they say...nice guys finish last. Something about the bad boys that gets the femmes every time.

 

Ya its quite interesting that every time I meet one of these so called bad boys, I can take them out with a slap. Some females can be so blind. Mistaking kindness for weakness is the first error. I know a-lot of "bad boys", and when it comes to picking on women their certainly good at that. When its time for the real play...........you can here a frickin pin drop!!! Ben is so much the bomb........quiet, gentle strength. He's a man, and does not have to prove it by having a pissing contest.