*OFFICIAL THREAD* Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep III Discussion Thread--Part 6

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by naw ibo, Dec 20, 2001.

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  1. naw ibo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    Some females get past that stage once they are over the age of 13. :) Or at least once they've gone out with the bad boy and realized he really is an a$$.

    Obi-Wan simply didn't possess the necessary tools to give Anakin the type of fatherly support a natural father could have given him.

    Then why didn't all the Jedi turn out that way? NONE of them were raised by natural fathers(or mothers). LUKE wasn't raised by his natural father(or mother). That's not why he's so messed up, he's messed up because HE never learned. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. After a certain point, you can't force someone to truly take a lesson to heart. It is a decision they make.

    I like the fact he was an extraordinarily gifted and pure hearted young child who evolved into a clearly bashful, awkward yet infinately talented young man that had a bright and meaningful future.

    And there too, I could see his problems when he was a child and didn't find him that pure-hearted, he was quick to help Qui-Gon beyond giving him some shelter from the sandstorm because it got him what he wanted as well. He wanted to podrace, he loved it and he was like a perfect little con man guilting his mother into letting him do it. If he hadn't been a slave he'd have been considered a brat. One of those overly precocious kids who everyone but their parents want to smack upside the head. But as he's a slave we feel sort of sorry for him and so overlook that and transform it into "Oh what a spunky kid".

    Then came AoTC and he was so freakin' full of himself, sure he was talented but he didn't have an ounce of humility and he never got any humility and it certainly wasn't for lack of having a good example to follow. He wasn't bashful, just because he wasn't smooth with Padme doesn't make him bashful. He wasn't even remotely bashful. He was like a bloody mack truck the way he came on, he just didn't have "the lines" to make it not sound stupid. Honestly I can't only imagine the midichlorians must have had the power to put a whammy on Obi-Wan and Padme because I frankly find nothing even particularly likeably about Anakin.

    So yeah I think Anakin's story is a good one, in that it shows what happens when one is selfish and arrogant.
  2. HawkHeadKentil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    star 3
    I dont know Lucas's motives........if he has any, but he certainly wrote Obi-Wan as a great father figure. I heard Lucas is a liberal. (dont want to turn this into politics) but, Obi-Wan is a conservative masculine father figure. Its just a movie, but if a guy like that was the father of a-lot of the kids these days, you would have a-lot of folks opening doors for you when you go to the store.
  3. Jovieve Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
    Bravo, Naw.

    Exactly. The problem is Anakin. Not anyone or anything else's. Anakin had plenty of positive role models, plenty of room and time to explore other options. Given enough strength of character, Palpatine could've talked til he was blue in the face and Anakin wouldn't have believed him. In fact, the ONLY time I see Anakin stick up for what he's been taught by the Jedi is in the opera scene. "The Jedi are selfless, they only think of others." And you might as well see his lip curl up in a stubborn little kid pout. He's not going to be budged on this fact and Palpatine sees this. He changes the subject.

    Anakin had the capacity to go in the right direction. It's sheer selfishness that sends him in the direction he goes.

    The argument I've been given against positive role models is that Anakin didn't want to be anyone other than Anakin only points to his having a monumental ego.
  4. HawkHeadKentil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    star 3
    I wonder if Lucas once again will put his foot in his mouth though?? I saw a little to much "save Padlame" in his turning. Lucas clearly says in the commentary on the DVD OT, that it was Anakins greed to control things and his inability to control his temper, that is ultimately his undoing. I just hope that in the commentary for ROTS, Lucas does not give us the Padlame excuse. :rolleyes:

    Jovieve is right. Sorry if I sounded like an ass before. You were right about the sober thing. [face_laugh] Hawk likes beer!!!
  5. Jovieve Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 4
  6. Kenobis_Babe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 2
    I wonder if Lucas once again will put his foot in his mouth though?? I saw a little to much "save Padlame" in his turning. Lucas clearly says in the commentary on the DVD OT, that it was Anakins greed to control things and his inability to control his temper, that is ultimately his undoing. I just hope that in the commentary for ROTS, Lucas does not give us the Padlame excuse.

    Save Padlame was just another example of his greed to control the uncontrollable. Soon after he turned he was babbling about his new empire, shows you where his head really was.

    I just got back a couple of hours ago from seeing Revenge for the 5th time :D and it just keeps getting better. And Padlame and Analame, just keep getting...well, lamer. [face_plain] I can't believe how Padlame's character was destroyed by this episode, I can't get over it.
  7. HawkHeadKentil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    star 3
    Lucas did that. I agree with the ladies that have been seriously pissed off with the way Lucas made her look like an old hen, rattling around her apartment, waiting for the end to come. She kicked ass in AOTC's and than became a boy toy in ROTS.
  8. Ewoks_Rule_Haters Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 1
    Yea but Leia wasnt all that tough in ROTJ when compared to ANH and ESB. The only real action she saw in Ep6 was being shot in the arm and then taking out a trooper when Han moved out of the way. Padme and Leias' progressions througout their respective films were very similar when you think about it. Leia was also a boy toy in Jabbas palace may I add.
  9. Old Juan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 1999
    star 4
    The big difference between Padme and Leia is that Leia never gives up whereas Padme does in the end.
  10. Kenobis_Babe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 2
    Lucas did that. I agree with the ladies that have been seriously pissed off with the way Lucas made her look like an old hen, rattling around her apartment, waiting for the end to come. She kicked ass in AOTC's and than became a boy toy in ROTS.

    Yeah, exactly. As a woman, I can't tell you how much that turns me inside out to see a woman depicted like that. A woman who was a Queen-turned-Senator for an entire planet, croak because some guy broke her heart? [face_frustrated]

    Ewoks-Leia didn't go out like a chump. As far as the love slave stuff in Jabba's palace, I remember the affect that it had, and still has, on all the pubescent boys and grown men. I have thoughts about that, too, but I'm not one to rain on a parade. ;) I'll just say that, yes, Lucas is consistent.
  11. honour Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2003
    star 3
    Leia was also a boy toy in Jabbas palace may I add.

    Yeah, a boy-toy who uses the chain she's tied with to choke Jabba!
  12. HawkHeadKentil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    star 3
    This is where it becomes completly incoherent!! How can a sane mind put Padlame and Leia (the mack) in any kind of closeness? It is obvious that Han is not a murdering thug. He is a gambler and an out law. What makes him an outlaw? The empire? The very thing that Lameakin embraced. Leia saw goodness in a roudy guy. Padlame chose to ignore the fact that her "man" was a baby killer. Leia would have slaped Han silly if he was as lame as Anakin. Leia faced Tarkin and Vader and shoved it right in their face. Padlame just wanted to run away. Leia is so Obi-Wanish............She cares about more than herself. Remember when she found out Vader was a part of the family? She was more concerned with protecting Luke. She almost dident blink. She would have kicked Vader right in the shorts. Leia is a hero, just like old Ben.

    More extras........why was Leia not as tough in ROTJ? Still waiting? She was just as tough. I dont see how she wasent. Maybe someone could enlighten me?
  13. Handmaiden- Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2003
    star 4
    People. Cut Padme some slack!

    Think about the changes that she has had in her life. She's now pregnant with the Chosen One's child. He's not even supposed to have attachments, but now she's secretly married to him and carrying his baby. She's in the apt. so much because she's trying to stay out of the limelight; lay low. So people won't notice.

  14. Ewoks_Rule_Haters Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 1
    Padme's new demeanor in ROTS can be directly contributed to the fact that she is now pregnant and is concerned for Anakin while he is at war and the lives of her unborn children. This has sofened her in a way that could only be described as plausible given what her character is going through emotionaly. Even at the beggining of ROTS she expresses her fears to Anakin because she had heard rumors of him being killed during the war. This combined with her news that she is pregnant only makes this easier to understand. Shes been going through alot during the war not knowing if her husband was alive and worrying her children may not have a father.

    As far as her dying of a broken heart, I like the idea. I realise alot of you dont because you automaticaly assume she would have wanted to fight for her children and would have fought to stay alive, but a broken heart isnt actually something you can stop once its started. Its an intense emotional trauma that is nearly impossible to recover from once its began and in Padmes case finding out her husband killed Jedi, younglings and turned to the darkside, was just too much to take in her already emotionaly fragile state.

    I like to think of it like this, once Anakin began his turn to the darkside there was no going back. Just like whenever Padmes heart began to break there was no way to heal it. Lets not forget that Padme was already in the process of dying when they were operating on her to get her children out safely so she couldnt very well just keep herself from death at that point.

    Oh well disagree with me if you want, but this is kind of the way Ive come to grips with what happened to Padme. I know there is conflicting feelings on this but if you need some sort of simple explanation to things well then its this. Its Star Wars and really doesnt have to make sense given that its a Sci-Fi Fantasy flick. At least thats what I tell myself when I disagree with something in these movies.
  15. Handmaiden- Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2003
    star 4
    ^Good post.

    And might I also throw in this observation: All this time, it's Anakin that says he can't live without Padme, but in reality, it was Padme that couldn't live or go on without Anakin.
  16. Ewoks_Rule_Haters Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 1
    Very True and for me it actually made their whole relationship work in this movie whereas I felt there was nothing between them in AOTC. I sensed real feelings for each other there.
  17. Kenobis_Babe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 2
  18. naw ibo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 5
    Oh of course you can stop a broken heart--it's a matter of changing your focus(the Qui-Gon lovers should remember that one well, one of the few things he ever said I agreed with "Your focus determines your reality"). She had two newborns. They should be more important to her than anything else. Good thing they were obviously more important to those around her than they were to her, otherwise who knows what would have happened to them. Pretty sad that Obi-Wan, Bail and Yoda cared more about her kids than she did(or Anakin did for that matter). The best thing that ever could have happened to Luke and Leia was to not be raised anywhere near their parents or by their parents. Goodness only knows what kind of pathetic creatures they would have turned out to be if they had been.

    Shes been going through alot during the war not knowing if her husband was alive and worrying her children may not have a father.

    Oh she's been through so much during the war--being protected there on Coruscant and probably rarely in any danger. Poor baby. I'm sure it's tough but heck people go through it all the time and get very sad and grieve or whatever, but most of them don't die of brokenhearts, especialy if they only knew their husband a week when they got married and only spent a few days here and there with them in the intervening 2 years. Seriously on the whole she actually knew this guy for about a month to a month and a half total.
  19. Kenobis_Babe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 2
    As far as her dying of a broken heart, I like the idea. I realise alot of you dont because you automaticaly assume she would have wanted to fight for her children and would have fought to stay alive, but a broken heart isnt actually something you can stop once its started. Its an intense emotional trauma that is nearly impossible to recover from once its began and in Padmes case finding out her husband killed Jedi, younglings and turned to the darkside, was just too much to take in her already emotionaly fragile state.

    LMBO!! Thanks for giving me the best laugh I've had in days!! That must have been Lucas' wet dream, too.
  20. Ewoks_Rule_Haters Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 1
    Yes but in the context that Lucas wrote the death of Padme in, a broken heart was justifiable given that Episode 3 was written like a greek trajedy and it played out like one. Man craves power, fears he will lose the ones he loves if he cannot achieve that power, man gains power and loses everything he was trying to save with that power. And broken heart syndrome is a real and miserable way to die, and it cant just be turned off just by changing your focus. The broken heart Padme died of was not just some highschool crush not asking her to prom.Oh forgett it I explained why I liked it in my prievious post on the matter. Again this is a Sci-Fi fantasy flick thats supposed to stir up your imagination, not make you question whether or not every minute detail is plausible.
  21. Kenobis_Babe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 2
    ...not make you question whether or not every minute detail is plausible.

    Why else would all of us fanatics be here? [face_laugh] :D
  22. HawkHeadKentil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2003
    star 3
    This is the perfect thread for this. All this talk about "flowers falling from the sky" (sorry Naw forgot what the quote was) In the end you fools (AA's) must realize, Kenobi was so much the master of not only love, but of simple human compasion. Obi-Wan loved Anakin Skywalker. Anakin loved himself, and thought of no one else in the end. Did some people miss the entire end of that movie?? Look what happened!!! From the moment of Kenobi's scolding stance, to the end of the duel, it was like..............HAY...........Anakin............wake up!!!
  23. Kenobis_Babe Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 2
    Yes but in the context that Lucas wrote the death of Padme in, a broken heart was justifiable given that Episode 3 was written like a greek trajedy and it played out like one. Man craves power, fears he will lose the ones he loves if he cannot achieve that power, man gains power and loses everything he was trying to save with that power. And broken heart syndrome is a real and miserable way to die, and it cant just be turned off just by changing your focus. The broken heart Padme died of was not just some highschool crush not asking her to prom.Oh forgett it I explained why I liked it in my prievious post on the matter. Again this is a Sci-Fi fantasy flick thats supposed to stir up your imagination, not make you question whether or not every minute detail is plausible.

    oh.. I was so busy making jokes I forgot to post what I really meant to.

    Ewoks, the primary problem that I have with her dying of a broken heart is that it was a dishonest way out for GL. The purpose of Padlame dying like that was to take the heat off of Lameakin in the eyes of those who are sympathetic to him. Anakin killed Padme. He choked the life out of her. But that doesn't play very well to the girls who swoon and the boys who look up to him, but it's the truth. That's the person he became, someone who takes innocent life out of anger, revenge and the need for power.
  24. Ewoks_Rule_Haters Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 11, 2005
    star 1
    Oh dont get me wrong, I would have prefered that Padme die of Anakin strangling her, and I do agree that it was an easy way out for Lucas.All im trying to do is justify what is there since I really have no other choice. She died of a broken heart and these are all of the different factors I look at when considering what led to that happening. In a perfect world, yea Vader chokes a beach {just to PG it up}.
  25. Ruthio Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 2
    Interesting thoughts my friends. But Obi-wan made a big mistake beleiving he could train Anakin. I just dun understand how Obi could rasie such a Rebellious kid like Anakin.I would think years with Obi-wan would make Anakin start acting like Obi-wan.

    On a side note i could see why so many people dig Anakin [ i think he cool to]. Hes good-looking, a powerful jedi, [if not the most powerful] and hes actually getting some unlike the other jedi. Hes also got the best outfits amongst the Jedi, his only problem is hes very selfish and easily dooped.

    Oh yea I wonder If Anakin played tricks on Obi-wan when he was younger. I always got the impression Anakin as a kid would Jump on Kenobis bed and ask if hes awake yet.
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