*OFFICIAL THREAD* Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep III Discussion Thread--Part 6

Oh dont get me wrong, I would have prefered that Padme die of Anakin strangling her, and I do agree that it was an easy way out for Lucas.All im trying to do is justify what is there since I really have no other choice. She died of a broken heart and these are all of the different factors I look at when considering what led to that happening. In a perfect world, yea Vader chokes a beach {just to PG it up}.

I understand where you're coming from, I really do. This subject just always works me up, please don't take my following rant personally because it's not intended that way or even directed at you.

[rant]Any direction the discussion takes, it can't be justified. I'm sorry, it just can't. Being pregnant doesn't make one an imbecile.

The character's personality was established in the first two movies as someone of great inner strength and so much so, that she was someone that people wanted to follow, and in fact, wanted to keep in office for an extended time. A girl/woman who was willing to face battle and challenges without flinching, not one who wandered about in handwringing disbelief. If anything, being pregnant and having the life/lives of her unborn child in her hands, would have steeled her resolve to do what was in their best interests. A woman who would birth Leia, the same Leia we would watch in the future and say, "ahhh, yes, I see where she gets that spunk." But wait..what's this...

She watched the Jedi temple burning in the night, didn't even know if all the Jedi had been killed or not. Obi-wan, now a fugitive, makes an effort to get to her home, face twisted with sadness and pain, comes to her home to tell her that her husband had succumbed to the darkside and had personally seen the atrocities on hologram of what happened. But she doesn't believe, he'd do something like that? The same Ani that told her of his slaughter of the Sandpeople, men women and children? He doesn't have it in him?

Then lies to fugitive Obi-wan's face to sneak off and tell her husband all the terrible things Obi-wan said, as if he found it fun (as the temple is still smoldering and dead bodies lie strewn) to come to her apartment just for the enjoyment of telling her a tall tale. Then begging this lunatic to come back to her and be the way they used to be, even as he is trying to include her in his plot to overthrow the Emperor and become the new ruler?

A ruination this whimp has become. She is no hero, she's no role model, she's no leader. She's Padlame.[/endrant]

Again, nothing personally directed at you Ewoks, just something I have to get off my chest every once in a while. Sorry for getting off topic.

 

Gotcha, YUB-YUB.

 

The fundamental difference contrasting Obi-Wan's upbringing with Anakins, is that Obi-Wan was correctly indoctrinated into the Jedi-Order prior to his personality being patterned at roughly 3 to 5 years of age, whereas Anakin didn't have that luxury. Obi-Wan was a Jedi first, then X,Y,and Z. Anakin was X,Y, and Z, then a Jedi. This is why the Council initially refused to accept Anakin for Jedi consideration as was clearly spelled out in TPM. Anakin was already an individual.
Regarding the perception of Anakins personality, he was indeed bashful, as evidenced during his introduction in AOTC in the elevator, refamiliarizing himself with Padme' in her apartment, and his general disposition and demeanor. What is witnessed during the two films we see Anakin in adulthood is his reaction to circumstances and situations. In both cases EXTREME situations and circumstances. AOTC and ROTS respectively take place within a time-span of what? Days at most within each subsequent film? Hardly a good gauge to judge and critique someones personality, especially without the benefit of observing them daily for 13 years and under "normal" everyday circumstances.

As far as Lucas' portrayal of Anakin Skywalker, I believe Anakin is wrote as THE singularly most complex, multi-dimensional and multi-faceted character in the saga. Obi-Wan,Yoda, et.al are depicted in very formulaic, one dimensional broad strokes, never deviating from their established dispositions. Whereas Anakin Skywalker runs the full gambit of human emotions and the human experience: Hate, jealousy, compassion, love, revenge, mercy, pity, regret, remorse, satisfaction, fear, etc. etc. ad infinitum.


And no Hawk, Obi-Wan is most certainly NOT a Conservative Republican. He is far too accepting of others,humble, and a team player for that particular insulting label.

 

Interesting thoughts my friends. But Obi-wan made a big mistake beleiving he could train Anakin. I just dun understand how Obi could rasie such a Rebellious kid like Anakin.I would think years with Obi-wan would make Anakin start acting like Obi-wan.

He takes the rap for that in ANH, but you'll recall that it was the know-it-all Qui-gon who put Obi-wan in that position. Obi-wan make a promise and kept it, instead of telling Qui-gon where to go. He's a stand up guy like that.

On a side note i could see why so many people dig Anakin [ i think he cool to]. Hes good-looking, a powerful jedi, [if not the most powerful] and hes actually getting some unlike the other jedi. Hes also got the best outfits amongst the Jedi, his only problem is hes very selfish and easily dooped.

Superficial things only gets you so far. It's what's on the inside that counts the most, especially when an entire universe is counting on you to save it. And he didn't even have his good looks to fall back on when it was all over.

Oh yea I wonder If Anakin played tricks on Obi-wan when he was younger. I always got the impression Anakin as a kid would Jump on Kenobis bed and ask if hes awake yet.

- I can honestly say, I've never thought about it before now, but it's not cute. Just adds to his annoyingness. Is that a word?

 

Kenobes_babe all i have to say that if you were in Padmes situation being pregnant, father of baby becoeming a killer and a sith. Republic falling around you, your best friend [Obi-wan] has to kill your Rogue husband. All this admist an interegaliactic war that could forever change the Galaxy. Im pretty sure you would not respond to all this as greacefully as you expected padme to.

 

Kenobes_babe all i have to say that if you were in Padmes situation being pregnant, father of baby becoeming a killer and a sith. Republic falling around you, your best friend [Obi-wan] has to kill your Rogue husband. All this admist an interegaliactic war that could forever change the Galaxy. Im pretty sure you would not respond to all this as greacefully as you expected padme to.

Give it up, that argument is weak. The person in question is not me, I haven't been on your movie screen for the last 10 years. You're not qualified to have a conversation with me about what I would or wouldn't do, because you don't know me, so let's stick with the subject we have been introduced to, which is Padmé.

If you've read the last page you've been presented with some solid issues about why Padmé is now Padlame, by several posters. Care to tackle some of those talking points?

 

call me nice, but how the blazes did you expect padme to react in this movie?! Did you expect her to lead Obi-wan Kenobi to go kill her true love, or matter of fact bring her own lightsaber to help. Mr.Kenobes_babe

 

Reffering to Padme' as "Padlame" or whatever, is kind of banal and juvenile.
I think Padme' is simply human, in ONE day she lost her husband, her career, her world ,her lifetimes work, and the world she wanted to raise her children in. Yeah, I can see why that would precipitate a desire to want to just get the hell away.


When you are suffering, you usually want it to end.

 

Yeah, Padme is Padlame. As much as I liked her character in TPM, she was an aider and abetter in AOTC. Padme was always about compassion and diplomacy, yet she let Anakin get away with the Tuskens. Perhaps she thought he HAD told the Jedi about that little incident? Or did the war get in the way and it become a minor issue to her? Anakin's not above lying or concealing the truth, obviously.

In ROTS I give her credit in the Obi-Wan at her apartment scene, because it's very obvious IMO that she DOES believe Obi-Wan. Deep in her gut, she does and it scares her enough to chase after Anakin. Her line "I don't believe you...I can't." Says it all. She's pregnant with a murderer's child, her friend and his is trying to track Anakin down to kill him and she's pretty much all alone.

Of course there wouldn't be a story if she did what most women would do in similar circumstances - go home to the folks - so she takes off after Anakin.

I agree she put Obi-Wan and others in danger and was protecting a murderer by withholding Anakin's location, I had hoped she would show some fortitude and that she and Obi-Wan would go out there together as a team to try to 'bring Anakin back' - THAT would have been an excellent show of diplomacy on her part (I'll take you to him, but you've got to let me talk to him first) and friendship between the two of them - but GL chose to show her as a hormone-crazed enabler prego chasing across the galaxy after her killer husband.

It did not reflect well on Padme and pregnant women at all.

 

I like hormone crazed prego women chasing killer husbands across the Galaxy. Don't knock it 'til you try it.

 

While my other asessments of the differences in Padmes character in Ep3 when compared to eps1 and 2 will remain in my earlier posts, I can only say how I feel about the differences in her personality because of issues I have felt in my own family.My cousin was pregnant recently and her husband was in Iraq. According to my Aunt she was just a completely different person than what she normaly is, which was brash, outspoken and known to be the type to not care what anyone thinks. This all happened because everyday she lived with the fear of the possibility of never seeing her husband again and her child never knowing her father. While everything worked out eventualy, she had the baby, and her husband came home, she hasnt been the same since. She became very scared and worried about losing him while he was gone and she remains the same way now even though hes home. Im not saying shes a psycho or anything, im just saying certain situations CHANGE people. Thats why I can appreciate Padmes difference of character from the strong, independent woman she was, to someone who was softer in will and demeanor.That does not equate to weakness of anykind in my opinion. Its a swallowing of pride and realization of what is really important in your life.

 

I like hormone crazed prego women chasing killer husbands across the Galaxy. Don't knock it 'til you try it.

No accounting for men's taste.

 

Ewoks, while your intentions are noble, sadly the effort is wasted in this thread. Attempting to apply rationale and logic is tantamount to lunacy. For posterity, there are several rules of thumb you should consider when posting in this thread, at least, if you want to enjoy your time here.


Take notes.

1. Qui-Gon Jinn sucks
2. Anakin Skywalker sucks
3. George Lucas sucks
4. Now Padme' is lame and she sucks
5. Jude Watson sucks
6. The Prequel Trilogy sucks
7. Anakin fans suck
8. George Lucas ruined the character of Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Prequels.


There are probably a few more but, if you can remember these important user guides when posting, you will do exceedingly fine in here. This is enough to at least get you started in the wonderful world of the *Official* Obi-Wan Kenobi discussion thread.

 

call me nice, but how the blazes did you expect padme to react in this movie?! Did you expect her to lead Obi-wan Kenobi to go kill her true love, or matter of fact bring her own lightsaber to help.

She didn't have to lead Obi-wan anywhere, she knew where he was and could have told Obi-wan. Instead, she decided to put herself, and her children in harms way by traveling to Mustafar. If Obi-wan and Yoda had curled up in a ball and died because of the fall of the Order, Republic, death of younglings, etc, where would the kids be then? What? She get's a free pass because she's pregnant? Since when does being pregnant equal weakness and prone to bad judgement? Her children were supposed to be her first priority, not Anakin.


Mr.Kenobes_babe

 

Well I don't know Kenobi's babe, since Obi-Wan and Yoda curled up in a ball and went into exile and seclusion for 20 plus years, if that's an entirely relevant or accurate analogy.

 

well Kneobi_Babe she didn't beleive Kneobie obviously an wanted to talk to Anakin herself. YOu think she thought her husband would force choke her and her belly.

 

joshuavance

Well I don't know Kenobi's babe, since Obi-Wan and Yoda curled up in a ball and went into exile and seclusion for 20 plus years, if that's an entirely relevant or accurate analogy.

The operative word in Kenobi babes original line was 'curled up in a ball and DIED'. Exile and seculsion but not forever. In fact, in post ROTS EU, Obi-Wan certainly doesn't stay put on Tatooine doing nothing.

 

"Her children were supposed to be her first priority, not Anakin."


And therein lies my entire issue and problem with that notion.
That statement is merely indicative of the anti-male, superfemme, "I don't need men except to have babies" mentality and attitude prevalent among women today. It's utter bull**** and it pisses me off.

By that same token, *I* don't have much respect for a woman that would put her children before her husband so, it works both ways.
How could someone in good conscience put a newborn baby before a partner they have known and loved?? Within a union of two people, another child can ALWAYS be brought into the world. Are men truly so replaceable? If so, is it any wonder men behave the way they do?

Let's call a spade a spade here, you can't expect a man to show much consideration when essentially what you are saying is that all men are good for is to biologically sire children.

 

Obi-Wan and Yoda did not curl up into a ball, they were smart enough to realize they needed to lay low. Big difference. Going into exile when one is a hunted fugitive does not equal curling up into a ball and dying. It's a good thing Obi-Wan and Yoda had more strength of character than she did, seeing as they were the ones who had to make sure HER children were looked after after she wimped out.

Padme became a pathetic excuse for a woman, or anyone really. I wouldn't think any more highly of her behavior were she a man but it makes it even worse that she abandoned her children, heck she wasn't even going to hold on long enough for them to be born, she was actually going to take them with her. That's why they had to operate to get them out.

 

Thats merely semantics Jovieve, as for all intents and purposes, as far as Galactic affairs were concerned Obi-Wan and Yoda may as well have been dead. They certainly figuratively were.

 

Well I don't know Kenobi's babe, since Obi-Wan and Yoda curled up in a ball and went into exile and seclusion for 20 plus years, if that's an entirely relevant or accurate analogy.

Going into exile and waiting for a time when they could defeat the Emperor and restore the Jedi was the smartest thing they ever did. Obi-wan also made a huge sacrifice in order to watch over Luke. Of course, because Pad-lame couldn't stick around, 'cause life got all hard and stuff...


well Kneobi_Babe she didn't beleive Kneobie obviously an wanted to talk to Anakin herself. YOu think she thought her husband would force choke her and her belly.

And that departure from the character of a strong, well thought out leader doesn't disturb you in the least? Again, why-would-Obiwan-lie? What was his motivation? And as for Anakin, she suddenly had no clue that he was capable of violence?

 

Thats ironic, I consider the character of Padme' and her entire three episode arc to be a rather eloquent depiction of a woman and her journey.

 

I like hormone crazed prego women chasing killer husbands across the Galaxy. Don't knock it 'til you try it.

No accounting for men's taste.

Really, lol!

EDITED TO ADD:

Thats ironic, I consider the character of Padme' and her entire three episode arc to be a rather eloquent depiction of a woman and her journey.

Whaaa? A woman that starts off strong and ends up weak? That's your idea of an elequent journey of a woman? LOLOL!!!

 

I'm sure you'll live.

 

Thats ironic, I consider the character of Padme' and her entire three episode arc to be a rather eloquent depiction of a woman and her journey.

Funny Joshuavance. You posted earlier you would have no respect for a woman who put her children ahead of her man? I don't agree. Children ALWAYS come first because they are children. ESPECIALLY infants. As for the above. That cracks me up. An eloquent depiction of 'A woman and her journey'? Yep, she's pretty, young, thin, is feisty, falls in love, gets knocked up and dies before she gets old, fat and flabby. A woman's journey? Maybe in some male fantasy haven somewhere.