*OFFICIAL THREAD* Obi-Wan Kenobi Ep III Discussion Thread--Part 6

Jovieve,

Hm. I think perhaps this leads up to the big duel. In the book of ROTJ, Obi-Wan says that he went after Anakin to turn him back to the good side because Obi-Wan saw what he had become, evil. Maybe Obi-Wan told him something along the lines of "You're supposed to be the Chosen One," or something like that. And Anakin realizes that Obi-Wan never believed in it or him? I'm just making an educated guess here.

 

Lady Sami - I was just thinking how important Anakin will figure he is in III , and Palpatine somewhere along the way asking Obi-Wan in front of Anakin and a crowd (with Padme there?) - in a casual way of course - something along the lines of "You DO believe our talented/war hero Anakin's the special/important/Chosen One, don't you?"

Even a slight hesitation from Obi-Wan could just wipe him out in Anakin's eyes.

I don't think in Ep III, Obi-Wan will even bring up the prophecy. He won't believe it by then if he ever did. Anakin has got to do something really heinous in order for Obi-Wan to abandon him to the point that he thinks he can no longer be brought back to the Light.

 

jovieve,

Okay, I got shot down for this in the social thread, but I think Anakin is going to go over to the dark side early in the movie. He won't be in the suit yet. He will be cheating on Padme and using dark side powers to win the war.

Obi-Wan will realize this and try to bring Anakin back and fail.

 

LadySam -

Okay, I got shot down for this in the social thread, but I think Anakin is going to go over to the dark side early in the movie. He won't be in the suit yet. He will be cheating on Padme and using dark side powers to win the war. Obi-Wan will realize this and try to bring Anakin back and fail.

Interesting. Why would Anakin cheat on Padme? He seems the obsessive stalker not the player type. I can imagine him using the Dark Side to help in the war, but only if he's off by himself doing covert actions for Palpatine. Leading troops into battle with fellow Jedi - maybe -would give that away pretty quick IMO. Especially with General Kenobi at his side. But this all precludes the Jedi haven't tossed him or insulted him by keeping his Knighthood from him for his little walkabout with Padme.

 

I don't think in Ep III, Obi-Wan will even bring up the prophecy.

Obi-Wan doesn't ever bring up the prophecy period. He didn't in EP II and he didn't in EP I. He never mentions believing or not believing Anakin is the Chosen One or not. Obi-Wan, especially by this time in AOTC, it seems like he views Anakin first and foremost as his padawan. Its kind of like "Chosen One or not, you still have to make your own bed and take out your own trash".

In fact it's kind of funny in TPM, Anakin makes a big point of saying "I'm a person and my name is Anakin", yet Obi-Wan who totally seems to not be starstruck by this idea of his being the Chosen One and treats him like he would a normal person who was acting like Anakin did, is now getting totally dissed by him.

 

jovieve,

Sorry, I thought I put in the reference from the novelization of ROTJ. In that book, when Obi-Wan is explaining to Luke about his father, DV is described as a man of "unbridled passions and wild submissions." To me, that means wine, women and song.

I know books are not totally canon, but this may not be contradicted in Ep. III.

Lady S.

 

Obi-Wan shouldd be a general in the Clone wars. I also think he should be on the Jedi council, and the main hero in the movie.

 

LadySami-

Sorry, I thought I put in the reference from the novelization of ROTJ. In that book, when Obi-Wan is explaining to Luke about his father, DV is described as a man of "unbridled passions and wild submissions." To me, that means wine, women and song.

Wow, I don't remember reading that. Will have to pick up my books again. But regardless, I guess that would make sense upon first reading, but since Ben Kenobi is renown for not being exactly direct, his words can be interpreted differently. Unbridled passion for Padme? For power? Wild submission to his emotions? To others in power?

I may be reaching, but it's possible.


I'm with you Naw. Obi-Wan has had to live with the punk. He has absolutely no illusions about who and what Anakin is. Too bad the Council wasn't listening in AOTC.

 

Up!

 

Sorry, I thought I put in the reference from the novelization of ROTJ. In that book, when Obi-Wan is explaining to Luke about his father, DV is described as a man of "unbridled passions and wild submissions." To me, that means wine, women and song.

Wow, I don't remember reading that.

Neither do I. Although I have only read them once, so it doesn't come to a huge surprise does it ?

 

I think Anakin at the beginning of EP3 will already not be with the Jedi order due to his marriage to Padme. He will be more of a 'bodyguard' to Palpatine. He already has a grudge against the Jedi council but still regards OBI1 as a father mentor.

OB1 will be struggling trying to keep peace due top the clone wars and will be more and more forced to become a fighter and not a keeper of peace. He senses that Anakin is more and more slipping into using the dark side of the force and confronts him once he learns that PADME is pregnant but is afraid to tell Anakin as he has changed and become much darker

 

anakin is never there when they discuss him being the chosen one, perhaps he just knows he is very powerful and they have never discussed the prophecy with him for fear of scaring him and we all know what fear leads to, maybe they worry it would make him over confident.

 

Regarding the Prophecy and "balance to the Force" etc., I think there has to be some discussion/resolution in EIII regarding this. The PT is all about Anakin, while the OT is mostly about Luke. We have to be told in EIII, why Luke is so important, why he has to be hidden, why the Emperor would fear him so much. As well, since it should be quite a surprise to the first-time viewer that Anakin becomes Vader, we have to know what the Prophecy truly meant. I am not saying that Obi-Wan should bring it up - perhaps Yoda and Mace talk about it, or Qui-Gon's spirit. Since QG was the first to bring this up, it would be fitting if he said something about it. However, IMO, Obi-Wan will know something about Luke's importance in EIII, since from ROTJ, we know that he, as well as the Emperor, were aware of this. After all, following EIII, Luke becomes Obi-Wan's "mission".

 

Darthfeanor -

Anakin is there in the Council Chamber with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in TPM when Qui-Gon exhorts the Council, "He is the One. You must see it."

Anakin knows he's some sort of special messiah. Or supposed to be.

 

Jovieve thank you thats the first time anyone has responded to me! i just meant maybe he doesn't know the full implication of the discussion he knows he's special but we don't know how much the jedi have told him, considering there future record with luke (thats weird) they may not have given him the full picture.

 

Just a reminder: at no point in the entire saga, prequels or OT, has Anakin/Vader ever referred to himself as "The Chosen One". Yes, he heard Qui-Gon in the Council, but he doesn't bring it up once in AOTC, not with Obi-Wan, not with Padme, and not with Palpatine. (It's the other Jedi who refer to the Chosen One prophecy, and not in his presence.) Which makes me seriously doubt he'll bring it up in Episode III and that it will be an issue between him and Obi-Wan. Let me add that Anakin's complete silence (so far, and as I said I don't think that's going to change) on this subject causes me to speculate he's actually rather uncomfortable regarding the prophecy.

As for whethe he thinks Obi-Wan believes or disbelieves it - I don't think that's particularily relevant, either. More to the point, he did hear Obi-Wan call him "dangerous" (Anakin was standing right there when Obi-Wan said this to Qui-Gon) and knows very well Obi-Wan would never have taken him as an apprentice if not for his promise to Qui-Gon. More than enough basis for insecurity and overcompensation through "Look what I can do" attitude.

 

servalan:

I think you're right...we don't really see Anakin refer to *himself* as the Chosen One, but I think he remembers all that talk about him, and thinks that that's how people should treat him and his abilities...

As someone else has said in this thread (and I can't remember who)...I think the idea of whether Obi believes he's the Chosen one is relevant because it affects how he treats anakin...I think that he doesn't really believe it because he treats anakin as "just another Jedi padawan" if you know what I mean...

do you all think that he feels guilty in ANH when referring to Anakin, not just because Anakin turns, but his failings as a teacher? I mean, Yoda told him what he was getting in to, but Obi was deteremined to keep his promise...i think anakin was more than he could handle...

(oh, and please don't take this as a diss against Obi...I like obi just about as much as I do Yoda...)

 

I think he might after his fall to the dark side. Well he said obi wan was holding him back, back from what. Maybe what he believed was fulfilling the prophecy. But this an obi wan thread so, Obi Wan is how old in III?

Axl

 

Axl wrote:
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I think he might after his fall to the dark side. Well he said obi wan was holding him back, back from what. Maybe what he believed was fulfilling the prophecy. But this an obi wan thread so, Obi Wan is how old in III?
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hmmm...although, I don't think the "holding me back part" is really anything to do with the prophecy...honestly, I think it's student-teacher angst thing...

 

I think he might after his fall to the dark side. Well he said obi wan was holding him back, back from what. Maybe what he believed was fulfilling the prophecy. But this an obi wan thread so, Obi Wan is how old in III?

Obi-Wan is 35 in AOTC, so he will be in his late thirties in EIII. If EIII is set 4-5 years after AOTC, then Anakin will be approximately the same age in EIII as Obi-Wan was in TPM, when he became a Knight.

When Anakin said Obi-Wan was holding him back, I think he meant holding him back from more responsible assignments, higher levels of training, etc. Anakin felt he was ready, but his master disagreed. Shortly thereafter, Mace/Yoda disregarded Obi-Wan's concerns and decided to give Anakin his first solo assignment, i.e., they decided NOT to hold him back. "Escort Padme to Naboo". Well, as subsequent events showed, Anakin botched up his assignment pretty badly. So, he really had not been ready, just wished that he was. .

Question is: will he spend the time between AOTC and EIII getting more ready, or will he still be lacking in some key areas when EIII rolls around? Will this frustate him and make him change Masters mid-stream? Knowing that at the same age, his own unassuming master (with LESS midichlorians) HAD been ready?

 

another obi-wan thread. and i've been directing everyone to the obi-wan appreciation thread.

 

OBi-Wan will be oe of the generals in the clone wars, and he will beat the heck out of anakin.

 

You said it Forever_Jedi_

All that Anakin did in AOTC was a 'test' of his Jedi-ness.

And he failed repeatedly on almost every single thing he did. He knew what he should do - he's not stupid, he's been listening to Obi-Wan for 10 years, but he did not take anything to heart - but he couldn't find it within himself to do the right Jedi thing.

As I said to Darth Feanor, I think at the very least Anakin knows he's special. He heard it announced in TPM and the speed and skill with which he learns over the last 10 years just add to that - he ties it into the prophecy I'm sure, he just doesn't say so.

I mean, think Sarah Connor in Terminator II, they locked her in the loony bin when she went on and on about her son being the 'savior' and her son was very embarrassed about it and never brought it up.

I think Anakin would believe his excellence is part of the prophecy, but he would never say so. And having Palpatine spill all that crap about "the greatest Jedi" in his ear...well you know the rest.

 

ok

i reckon that at some point through epIII
obi-wan will find out about the Death Star,
because if you look back to his immediate
recognition of the death star in ANH, you
sort of wonder how it knew it so quickly
and from that distance

now when he finds out.....i have two theories..

1.he is on his way back to the jedi council or the senate, and is intercepted by anakin, and his starfighter is taken down, onto the volcano planet...the famous fight happens, and obi-wan runs off to tatooine....so no-one else ever finds out...

2.he finds out, tells everyone else...and then cos all the jedi are killed, except himself and yoda(who would probably already be on dagobah), he is the only one left who knows about it.....

number two doesn't sound to me like it would work...plus the first one sounds more beliveable anywhoo

any thoughts on this??

 

robo_obi I agree that it is highly possible that Obi-Wan at least had some knowledge of the Death Star plans. Since we don't know yet what part Dooku will play in EIII, it is difficult to speculate how Obi finds out. Perhaps in an encounter with Dooku? When General Kenobi's troops take on the Separatists? As far as why no one else in the OT knows, who else? The people in the PT who would know are part of the Republic that become the Empire, or the Jedi, who are wiped out.

I am really in the dark right now regarding Dooku's role in EIII with relation to the Jedi.