*OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul

I have made this thread to talk about the battle of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul all in one thread.

So like in this thread you discuss the duel.

Ok I will start off.


I always wondered if Qui-Gon was trying his hardest.

 

I don't see why he wouldn't have tried his hardest. He knew how important it was to not let Darth Maul escape, because if both Obi-Wan and him failed then there was a good chance that Maul might have captured or killed Anakin on the spot, and if he didn't kill him then there's a good chance that Anakin would have been seduced earlier on. He knew what was at stake.

 

I always thought Qui-gon went down kind of easy, he should of been able to beat Maul.

 

Even up to the bitter end, I never really got the feeling that Qui-Gon was using is full potential to actually kill Darth Maul. Maybe it's just that he kept his cool and didn't use the Dark Side at all, or never seemed to give in to the slightest amount of rage. He always seemed like he was measuring Maul, interested in him, probably trying to sense if he was a true Sith Lord and how he tied into the whole Naboo debacle. Even moments before his death, he looks at Maul with a bit of curiosity. He simply underestimated Maul's weapon; if Maul had used a single blade, it may have ended in Qui-Gon's favor.

 

Qui-Gon fought as hard as he was able within the frame work he was willing to fight under, which was fighting solely with the Light Side. However, I think he was partially trying to figure out why the Sith Lord he had fought on Tatooine was on Naboo and how he had known that they would be coming.

 

^ That's true too.

 

One reason I thought that Maul beat Qui-Gon wasa that Maul was (presumable) half Qui-Gon's age. Qui-Gon just got tired, he wasn't able to keep up and Maul caught him unawares.

 

I thought that too, but I'm not sure how to reconcile that with Dooku's ability to dominate Obi-Wan in AotC and RotS.

 

It's also possible that he thought he'd be able to help Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, etc. better if he passed on and used the secret of the Order of the Whills.

 

It is, but I think that credits Qui-Gon with a foresight that he didn't have. He was a great Jedi, but I don't think he saw what was coming it in it's entirety.

 

Dooku has a rather different fighting style to Qui-Gon. Form II and Form VI are almost opposites, IV uses the whole body a lot, II is about the hands and the feet.

 

Yeah, that's true. He was all about concentrating more on the moment rather than a possible future.

 

There were many factors that contibuted to Jinn's demise: age, opponent, fighting style, combat environment, pace and distance covered. I like the Novel's POV on how the duel unfolded. IMO, once the Jedi were separated, all three of them knew which one of them was about to die.

 

Qui-Gon is the ultimate Jedi-- the only one (within the context of the films) who has stayed true to the lightside and who was never tempted to gain temporary power by triping the light fantastic of the darkside.
In the earlier confrontation with Darth Maul on Tatooine Qui-Gon was not only pushed to his limits, but may have been defeated had not Obi-Wan, warned and alerted by Anakin, been in a position to rescue his master. The bottom line is even at this earlier stage, Qui-Gon took the prudent path and escaped. He knew then that the Sith had returned and they had the potential to challenge and defeat the Jedi.
- He must have known even earlier, I think. Perhaps this is why was he so tuned into finding the Chosen One.

 

well I know obi-wan was not trying his hardest before qui-gon died

 

I think it's important that Qui-Gon wasn't actually trying to kill Maul as he was trying to capture him. I doubt he went by the "kill first and ask afterwards" principle. Had the Jedi entered the duel with the intent of killing Maul, things could've been quite different. Just note how both OBW and Qui-Gon fights better alone - simply because they have to...

But ultimately, Maul was a ferocious dueller, and although he might not beat Qui-Gon at every encounter, he would be no push-over for anyone!

 

All good points. For the record, I think that if Maul had seperated them and killed Obi-Wan first (which he no doubt would have), Qui-Gon may have temporarily gone over the edge when the energy shield went down, and I think he would have been too much for Darth Maul. We see in the cases of Obi-Wan versus Maul, Anakin/Dooku rematch and the Luke/Vader rematch that a little Dark Side can even the odds when you're facing a superior opponent.

 

Huh, I hadn't thought about Qui-Gon fighting to capture rather than kill. I could see it, but his "We'll handle this." always sounded like it meant they were going to kill Maul to me.

 

or on the other hand,it could have messed up his thoughts,he would start to panic or even despair,he could have gotten confused and Maul could have completely overwhelmed him.

about what Rosa83 said...
i think yes,the original intent was to capture him,but Qui-Gon already had a taste of what Maul could do on Tatooine...he barely escaped that.and when he was faced with a life and death situation(his life and his padawan's),i think the last thing on his mind was trying to capture Maul.
we see near the end of the duel,he was going for the kill,he was on the offensive,he was pressing Maul(or falling into his trap,as Terry Brooks would say ) even when they got the the laser wall thingies.

 

Qui Gon knew that there would be no chance of taking Maul alive, he knew that the Sith had come to destroy them... Many people overlook that fact that Anakin saved the Jedi. Had he not taken out the 3 Droidekas, the jedi would have been quickly overwhelmed with Maul at the front and them at the rear. Unlike the TF ship early on, in the Theed hangar there was no where to run.

 

But SSS, you have to agree that the Jedi went there with the intent of capturing and discovering the identity of Maul? If Qui-Gon thought that he could not have taken him after what he experienced on Tatooine, he would have told the council so, and they would have sent a more powerful dueler, for instance Mace or Yoda (which I think would have been the wise decision anyways).

I'm not taking anything away from Maul as a dueller, but had the Jedi fought him on their terms, with the intent of killing him straight away, I doubt he could manage it. OBW and Qui-Gon seemed to be a good team.

Also, do you think that Maul wanted the droidekas to take out the Jedi? I think he wanted them for himself, and that the droidekas were for the Queen and her group...

 

I agree that they would of sent someone with more experience after maul.. i mean yoda didnt want obi-wan to go after dooku in ROTS for a reason.

 

First of all, Qui-Gon (possibly the best Jedi ever) was fully attempting to kill Darth Maul, ok. Qui-Gon is not a fool. Maul nearly did him in on Tatooine; as a proponent of the LIVING force Qui-Gon is actually more inclined to find a direct and final solution to an issue.
Furthermore its obvious form the movies tone at that point (much more serious), the dialogue and the story arc that the Jedi were fighiting to kill.

Instead of deluding yourselves from seeing the obvious*, let me simply state the reason Maul defeated Qui-Gon;

Darth Maul was superior at lightsaber combat, and using the Force in conjuntion with LS combat than Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan

Had they had a wizards duel prior to the fight though; Qui-Gon may have won that. (though the dark side should never be underestimated; witness how Dooku fought Yoda to a stand still in a wizards duel)

Lastly, I would like to add that Maul could probably have bested Mace Windu in a duel as well, and maybe even Yoda. (though not both together). Mmaul was just that damn good; Lightsaber combat was Maul's 'thing', the reason for his existance in the movies.

Basically, if Qui-Gon, the last proponent of the Living Force in the Jedi Order, who regularly still took death defying missions instead of sitting on his @ss in the council was defeated, then Mace Windu would have been defeated by Maul as well.



((*Its actually Obi-Wan who was attempting to capture Jango in AOTC; Jango fans try to froth about how Jango won against Obi-Wan, when actually Obi was fighting to capture, while Jango was fighting to kill. Plus he had his kid help him with starship grade weapons. Oh and he still ran away, bumping his head in his haste . ))

 

They were given a mandate to protect the Queen, the Jedi knew the instant Maul showed up at Theed that it was now a matter of life or death. Given that we know Maul's makeup, DOTF was kill or be killed for all involved. ((Besides, Sith do not surrender; they may plead with you not to kill them, but they won't surrender.))

I think you might be forgetting one thing, the Council had doubts about whether Maul was in fact, Sith. Based upon what happened on Tattooine, Qui-Gon already knew how tough the 'mysterious attacker' was.
[image=http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/SithStarSlayer/TPMMaulandJinnOnRamp.jpg]
I wish that this portion of their first duel had NOT been cut. It would have illustrated how bad Maul really was, and how close he came to overwhelming Jinn.

Maul was more than a match for 2 Jedi. Remember that Maul did not fight with any hesitation, or mercy... Kenobi and Jinn had to be mindful of each other. They could not swing freely as Maul did, lest they inflict collateral damage upon one another. The Jedi were a good tandem, but Maul was better than their combined talent. If he wasn't, the Jedi would have disposed of him quickly.

((SIDENOTE: Lucas was smart in sending 4 Jedi to Palpatine's office... if his Apprentices' could handle two-Jedi at a time, then what could Sidious do?))

They were called in to wipe out anything and everything in their path. The order was to get the treaty signed, so I took as Maul was to supposed to kill them all except Padme. Heck, he wiped-out Black Sun by himself, what were a few volunteer pilot's and two Jedi gonna do?

No doubt. Maul wanted the Jedi for himself. If they fell to the Droidekas, then they weren't worthy opponents to begin with.

 

"Find out the identity of the attacker" sounds to me that they were trying to capture him, or at least something similar. After a while I'm sure they realized that they would have to go for the kill. But their first intent led them away from the hangar where they stood their best chance...

Not so bad that Jinn didn't force him off again
The council did have doubts... but also, QG only said that he was well trained in the Jedi arts, not that he was exceptional..
However, I still think that they should have played it safe and sent their best duellers...

That depends greatly on the two Jedi. Yoda and Mace would take him single handedly, ROTS OBW would also. However, for most Jedi, Maul would be more than a match - very true.
I don't think that Maul was better than QG and OBW together. Maul knew that as well, and therefore his tactics was to separate them. Again, had the Jedi forced him to stay in the hangar, things would be different...

Again, that depends on the Jedi
That's EU, and you know that's exaggerated

True...