*OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by lightthunder1, Nov 22, 2007.

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  1. averagejoe3 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2007
    well i think he was better than the two combined....the novel seems to clarify this:Years of training had gone into the preparation of Darth Maul as a Sith Lord. He had been more than the equal of the Jedi Knights he had faced and should have been able to defeat them easily. It was bad luck and chance that had led to his death, a combination that even the power of the dark side could. not always overcome.

    ROTS Obi-Wan could have beaten TPM Maul,but not a 13 years older Maul.by then Maul could have been Sidious' equal,i think.
  2. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    Bisect him while he stands there shocked that a Padawan beat him. :p

    He was a match for them due to the negatives that come with fighting as a team. Obi-Wan shows that individually when drawing on the Dark Side, he's Maul's superior in raw offensive ability. Maul simply played on Ben's hate-induced tunnel vision and shoved him into the pit. Ben simply does the same to Maul by out thinking the Sith Lord and going for his dying master's lightsaber.

    Who says that in the novel? I also highly doubt Maul would be Sidious's equal by RotS. He'd at best be on Dooku's level imo.
  3. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    Which novel was this? The Phantom Menace one?

    I think this would be true in time... that Maul's skills would have increased exponentially as Sidious was probably intending for this Apprentice to succeed him in the Banite tradition. To do that, the Apprentice couldn't be a weakling, he had to have at least a possible chance at eventually beating Sidious. And to do THAT, you have to have a pretty powerful Apprentice as Sidious was really, really powerful. One bit of evidence for this could be that Anakin wasn't born yet when Sidious picked Maul and began to train him, and Count Dooku was still a Jedi Master.
  4. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    Maul had to replace him eventually, but I don't see any reason to think he'd want an apprentice who would replace him before his plan to rule the galaxy was finished.
  5. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    My thoughts exactly:)
  6. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Kenobi got lucky with two shots, one for the saber hilt, and then second when he knocked Maul down. Maul proved to be Kenobi's superior in combat, not the other way around. Even when was empowered by his dark-emotions he couldn't best Maul. That little thing that Kenobi held onto was called an OT-life-saver. Maul only died because he had to... for the story's sake.
    Nothing more.
    Nothing less.
  7. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    You're acting like Obi-Wan surviving because of the OT delegitimizes that he beat Darth Maul. That's like me saying "Oh, the Sith only beat the Jedi because of the OT and thus it's not legitimate." Obi-Wan legitmately outfought, out thought, and defeated Maul just like Palpatine did to the Jedi Order.

    Obi-Wan also was strong enough when he drew on the Dark Side to take Maul off balance and cut his saber in two. The gulf between their skill levels is no where near as large as you make it seem.
  8. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4
    How did Obi-wan get lucky when he cut Mauls lightsaber in half and knocked him down?:)
  9. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    Probably because Maul beat Obi-Wan like a red-headed stepchild for the entire duel, and didn't even pay attention to him until Qui-Gon was out of the way. Obi-Wan, even after cutting Maul's saber, was still losing the duel, and would have definately lost had he not had time to cool down and focus. He was in no way as good a fighter as Darth Maul.
  10. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    Yet at the end of the day Maul's bisected and Obi-Wan walks away. It was Darth Maul's arrogance and stupidity that cost him the duel, two things that completely undermined his skill as a warrior.
  11. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    Darth Vader bisected Obi-Wan, does that mean that Obi-Wan was inferior to Darth Vader? ROTS shows otherwise.
  12. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I have studied the end of TPM ad-nauseum, and I laugh at some of the things posted here.
    The finished-film contains some rather blatant editing mistakes, and in my book they are what delegitimizes Kenobi's victory. Lucas put very little thought into getting Kenobi out of that pit, if this weren't true, the editing wouldn't have been soo Strilo edit: Don't circumvent the swearing rules.

    Mistake numero uno: Maul force pushes Kenobi with two different hands.
    Mistake dos: Kenobi took 17 seconds to call upon the Force. No Jedi, or no Sith for that matter ever took that long before, or after to summon the Force. Watch Kenobi throw his hand at Vader on Mustafar, how long was that? A half a second?
    Mistake numero tres:When Maul is staring at Kenobi he has saber in one hand. But when he turns around as Kenobi leaps, the saber mysteriously ends up in his other hand, so that he CAN'T block Kenobi's strike. <-- that move right there is what makes Kenobi's survival even more contrived, or as I call it: because of the OT.


    Ray Park couldn't help but be in the right spot, and even held his weapon correctly, so they had to edit it... just to get him cut in half. The sequence of events surrounding Maul's death were specifically altered to enable Kenobi's leap from the pit.

    Kenobi didn't kill Darth Maul....
    Lucas did.



  13. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    You make a good point. :) Maybe instead of having that podrace, we ought to have an extended battle between Obi-Wan and Maul. It would be neat to watch them kick the tar out of each other for a little longer. We could see how dangerous the Sith were, and how lethal Maul really was, because Lucas wouldn't be under as bad a time contraint for the battle. And Obi-Wan would look very good instead of appearing like he bested Maul in a cheap shot.
  14. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4
    In my opinion, it was not "luck" that Obi-wan was beating Maul before he force pushed him to that pit. He used his anger then when Maul saw an opening, he pushed him to that pit, but that opening was there because when Obi-wan used his anger he lost his focus. It was not "luck that Obi-wan used his anger to dominate that part of the duel. This is my opinion.:)
  15. Amrita_Glittersong Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2007
    star 1
    I think that Maul was indeed the better technical fighter, but that shouldn't discount what seems to be Obi-Wan's greatest asset in a lightsabre duel: his ingenuity. Obi-Wan consistantly, throughout the movies and EU, comes up with unexpected or unorthodox ways to even out or turn the tide of a fight to his favor. The fight with Maul is a good example of this; though Maul out-fought Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan out-thought him.
  16. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    Ben is shown willfully allowing himself to be struck down while Maul was simply killed.

    Editing mistakes are irrelevant to the plot. Maul died for the same reason Dooku, Mace, Ben, Yoda, Dack, Padme, Anakin, Palpatine, random stormtrooper, and everyone else who dies in the film did. The script required it. The constant attempts to make Maul's death seem any less legitmate than any other death is simply ludicrous given that we're talking about a piece of fiction where everything that happens happens because of the plot, which means every event in the PT happens because of the OT.

    Lucas killed everyone.
  17. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    The editing does matter.
  18. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    Things like a saber ending up in the wrong hand don't matter to the plot.
  19. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    What matters is that Maul has been brutalized like a clawless cat against two pit bulls in the new esential guide to the force. Although Palpatine is the narrator...
  20. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    I hate the EU and will probably regret this, but what does it say?
  21. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    I will post the entire passage on thursday nite in the Should Darth Maul have died thread.
    I didn't hate the EU before, but I ain't likin it too much right now...
  22. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    Because it disagrees with you?:p

    Sorry Masssster. I will go and do pushups, or get fried... your bidding Masssster:p
  23. lightthunder1 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 1
    lol
  24. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    Remind me to post Palpatine's thoughts on selecting an Apprentice. I have to get the whole Maul thing up tonite, and finish an RPG post... so if I forget, send me a PM.

    There is an addendum to the Telos Holocron where Kenobi writes about DOTF. Since its POV, I can stomach it the part I don't like, but at the end the recording Kenobi concedes that "the creature had me"... If I have time, I'll post that too!

    You should get fried just for asking!![face_laugh]
    Pushups... much better for you to inflict pain upon yourself BEFORE I do.

    Besides, I haven't cracked my knuckles yet today.:p



  25. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    Maul would have won if he wasn't fooling around and thinking to himself whilst Kenobi was in the pit: "This is going to be too easy. He is gonna die, because I KNOW I am better. Why don't I just have some fun right now and torture him a bit? What is the chance he has now of surviving, anyway?"
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