*OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon in ROTS

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Ben R, Feb 18, 2006.

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  1. Ben R Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2000
    star 4
    Hear me out on this one, folks:

    I feel that it's a shame that the originally planned dialogue at the end of episode 3 between Qui-Gon Jinn's ghost and Yoda was cut. Particularly, the part where Qui-Gon tells Yoda that the key to beating the darks side is Love. Love is the answer. He says that the Sith are looking to achieve immortality through selfishness & cheating death, but they are doing it all wrong. Love and compassion are the keys to it all. He then tells Yoda he will teach him how to retain his identity through the force after death... somthing the Sith will never be able to do.

    I feel that KEEPING this conversation in the movie would have been a HUGE shot in the arm to the Original Trilogy. Not only because it sheds more light on the Qui-Gon thing and the force ghost stuff, but also because it explains another reason why Yoda would still hide on Dagobah & not go out & help Luke beat Vader & Sidious. Yes, you can argue that Yoda had become "old & weak". Yes, you can say that order 66 was still technically being enfored and Yoda was a recognizable character to the Empire. ...But, I think the story is benefitted immensely if you understand that Yoda & Obi-Wan learned from Qui-Gon that the key to beating the Sith Lords is through Love and compassion. Then it immediately makes sense that Yoda is sending Luke alone, hoping that his compassion & Love for the father he never knew, along with Anakin's Love & compassion for his son will help Vader to snap out of it, where they defeat Sidious together.

    We all know the story. We all realize that this is how Luke redeems Anakin. ...But, if Qui-Gon's ghost's dialogue was included for someone watching the saga in numerical order for the first time, they would have fewer questions about why Yoda doesn't go with Luke to fight. They would think, "Love is the key. The way for Luke to get through to Vader isn't helped by Yoda going along."

    What do you think?
    whostheBossk likes this.
  2. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Please use this thread to discuss all aspects of Qui-Gon and Force ghosts in ROTS.

    And remember to keep things positive. This is the PT forum afterall. :)
  3. Ben R Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2000
    star 4

    Thanks, RebelScum77.
  4. Death-Vader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2002
    star 3
    I agree with you 100%.
  5. SBD-518 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2005
    star 2
    I think that it doesnt really fit in with the tone of ROTS. Or even that of the saga. Love was never an explicit thing in the saga. It was only really present in AOTC. Its more of an undertone to the actions of the characters. And the PT follows the journeys of Anakin of Obi-wan. Other characters were shown only if they were needed to explain the story.
  6. Ben R Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2000
    star 4

    "Love was never an explicit thing in the saga."

    Then tell me what it was that made Vader rescue Luke from the force lightning. ...or what it was that Han and Leia had going.
  7. jedibri Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2000
    star 4
    Lucas may have tossed around the ideal of Qui-Gon as a ghost. But, then chose to leave that up to Ob-Wan to be the first. It gives both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan more depth as characters.
  8. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2004
    star 5
    Lucas may have tossed around the ideal of Qui-Gon as a ghost. But, then chose to leave that up to Ob-Wan to be the first. It gives both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan more depth as characters.




    Yep, plus Liam Nieson couldnt/wouldnt do the role.
  9. MASTER_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2001
    star 1
    I reading the dialouge between Yoda and Qui-Gon in the ROTS novel, I too was thrown off as to why it wasn't there in the movie. I feel it should have been. But sometimes the director and producer has to make tough choices as far as editing goes. When you look at the movie itself where does Qui-Gon really fit in? I think Yoda's explaination at the end of the film about Qui-Gon was more than adequate.
  10. Obi-Wan-1000 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2005
    star 4
    I wish Qui-gon was in ROTS,They should have put Qui-gon there!:_|
  11. DarthWolvo23 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
    i have come full circle on my feelings on this

    i originally wanted the qui-gon scene in there really badly but now think it would be a little too much like "here is how we will win"

    it is better to not hear what qui-gon tells yoda because we see in the classic trilogy that yoda doesnt really believe anakin can be redeemed

    for me, the definitive qui-gon "ghost" scene is in the clone wars cartoons - when we see yoda have a vision of him and little anakin on dagobah

    i like the idea he communicated with yoda by telling him possible future events in clues as opposed to him just coming out and saying "love will conquer all"

    hope this made some sense!
  12. BothofUs Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2003
    star 4
    Just to see Qui-Gon again as a ghost in RotS would have been great. The imagery would have been something. Although, that room on Polis Massa is a bit of a forgettable setting. I think a hooded Qui-Gon ghost would have been wondrous.
  13. SephyCloneNo15 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2005
    star 5
    I was always disappointed with the disclusion of this scene. To be honest, at first in AOTC I didn't even realize that was QGJ's voice while Yoda was meditating and Ani was kiling Tuskens.

    I agree that it would have been nice just to see/hear from him in ROTS, but when that guy said it would be bad to just say outright that love will conquer all, I sort of agreed with him. Then there's all this retconned buisiness about QGJ not being able to physically manifest himself as anything other than a voice. Long story shorty, I've sort of come to agree with this and accept it.

    After posting that first paragraph, I could totally just see Qui-Gon narrating the whole saga, and then we cut to him in front of the pearly gates with the GFFA equivolent of St. Peter, and Qui-Gon's saying, "You see, it all turned out well in the end. Do I get in?"
  14. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    I could swear I replied to this earlier today in the OT forum..... am I losing it?
    [face_hypnotized][face_hypnotized] [face_hypnotized] [face_hypnotized] [face_hypnotized]
  15. Kasey_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2006
    star 4
    Since Qui-Gon didn't disappear upon his death, he couldn't have possibly have come back in spirit form. He was only able to come back as a voice...which is why everyone thinks Obi-Wan is a crazy old man, because he's walking around talking to Qui-Gon all the time, who you can't even see!
    So even though I agree that this dialogue is great, and the idea behind it is powerful, I don't think that having him come back in spirit form would have completely made sense. Besides, we get the idea that something is going on when Yoda says that Qui-Gon has returned from the nether world of the force...
    It shouldn't have to be spelled out in the sand for people you know.
  16. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
  17. inkswamp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 3
    Okay, your post leads in to something I posted earlier so I'll post again here. I was browsing IMDB tonight and I ran across this tidbit on the episode 3 trivia page:

    Liam Neeson has said that he recorded a cameo as Qui-Gonn Jinn, which was to feature in a scene with Yoda, further explaining the concept of a Jedi communicating from beyond the grave. In the script, the dialog (in which Qui-Gonn is heard, not seen) appeared in the scene in which Yoda is meditating on the secret asteroid base just before Bail Organa informs him of Obi-Wan's return with Padme. The scene does not appear in the deleted scenes section of the DVD, nor does it appear in any known release of the film.


    You can see it here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121766/trivia

    The reason I bring this up is that I was under the impression that nothing had ever been confirmed as far as Neeson's cameo, and yet IMDB claims that Neeson himself confirmed it. Does anyone know what their source for this might be or are they just misinformed on this point?

  18. TheLighterSide Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2005
    star 4
    What is there to discuss? He wasn't in the film, and because we have no idea what the translation of the novel conversation would have been like on film, we cannot know definitively whether or not it would have significantly improved the film. Therefore, I have to conclude that the film, sans Qui-Gon, is as it should have been.
  19. Ben R Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2000
    star 4

    Regardless of Liam Neeson, they could have done it.

    The voice actor for Qui-Gom in the clone wars cartoon sounded just like Qui-Gon. You could have shot a hooded guy with a similar face & beard and made it fuzzy. ...Or, you could have shot another actor from behind.

    Neeson wasn't completely necessary in pulling it off.
  20. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    The best part is, in the novel QGJ is ONLY a voice..... no physical form, so they would'nt even have to fudge that!
  21. YoungAngus Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2005
    star 5
    Thats interesting. IMDB seems to be a preety reliable source and if its right, hopefully it will be inserted into another release of the film.
  22. Kasey_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2006
    star 4
    Exactly! Qui-Gon couldn't come back in spiritual form because his body hadn't disappeared because he had no idea about this ability until he was summoned back through the Force after the Tuskin camp incident because of his strong connection to Anakin.
  23. AnakinBrego Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2004
    star 3
    George Lucas stated that Qui-Gon was a weaker ghost, that's why he could only be heard not seen! He'll be training Obi-Wan and Yoda to be seen, and hopefully he'll eventually be able to be seen in the process, hence at the end of ROTJ, I hope for the next release![face_praying]
  24. inkswamp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 3
    I wish they had sourced that however. I'm hoping the collective knowledge of SW fans will dig up whatever it is they are referring to. If Neeson himself said he recorded it, then there's no question.

    It would also clear up these persistent rumors about how Neeson refused to work with Lucas again after TPM. I find that highly doubtful as it is. If so, he'd be one of the first actors to come away from Lucas with that strong of a reaction.
  25. Carnage04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 5


    Honestly, I think it was a big mistake not to have a voiceover or something in the film during the Yoda meditation sequence. At the end of the movie, when Yoda says "An old Friend has returned your old master blah blah" and Obi-wan is like "Qui-Gon!" the people that I went to see the film with were like "WHAT?!?!? What does that have to do with ANYTHING?" Obviously for those of us that watched Clone Wars, read LOE and ROTS, talked on discussion boards, and tried to find out a ton of crap about the movie, we understood the point. My friends are into Star Wars so they at least knew who Qui-Gon was. I'd assume alot of casual viewers may have left the theatre asking "Who the hell is Qui-Gon?" The way it is presented just makes it seem to come out of nowhere.

    Carnage
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