*OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon in ROTS

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Ben R, Feb 18, 2006.

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  1. Padme-Wan_SkyWindu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah, IMDB actually isn't very reliable in some instances like that. For example, for a while on their Jurassic Park page, under "Memorable Quotes", they had some lines from the "Matriarch Velociraptor" that obviously were fabricated by some random person and sent it (they were pretty funny, though). The point is you can't trust everything you read on sites where people can just send in information that gets added without being screened for accuracy.


    I like this thought, and had never considered it that way. Nice.

    As far as the topic goes, I would love to have seen the dialogue in there, but only with the disembodied voice. It makes more sense to me since Qui-Gon's body did not disappear when he died. I also would have liked the continuity within the PT. With his voice in Episode II very briefly, it would have been cool to have it appear more in Episode III. That brief moment in Episode II established him trying to make the connection from the netherworld, and Episode III could have more solidly linked the movies than Yoda's little comment to Obi-Wan did. It served its purpose well enough, but I would have preferred to have actually heard Qui-Gon.
  2. Carnage04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 5

    Actually, at the end of Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, Qui-Gon starts chatting him up while he is walking down the street. He decides to duck into an alley so he isn't known as the "Weird old guy that talks to himself."

    Carnage
  3. Ben R Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2000
    star 4

    Qui-Gon starts chatting WHO up in "Dark Lord"?
  4. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Yes I too would be interested to know who he was speaking to.
  5. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    He speaks to Obi-Wan in Dark Lord.
  6. dianethx Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2002
    star 6
    I see nothing wrong with having Yoda having a chat with Qui-Gon in the Polis Massis (sp?) scene, just the voice. It would have certainly helped tie in the movies. Even one line about compassion. We have the thread of compassion in AOTC and in TPM. It would have been a good continuing theme to have it in ROTS. Plus it makes sense to show that Luke had love and compassion for his father. Luke, imo, is much closer to a Qui-Gon figure than Obi-Wan in the way he approaches things - rebellion and love and compassion for others.

    "Compassion is the key. I will teach..." and have his voice fade away as Bail comes in. Simple, to the point and Qui-Gon there.

    As for Liam not wanting the role, I don't believe that is true but I haven't got anything to back it up. As far as I know, he wasn't negative about TPM (unlike Ewan) and he certainly made a joke about Jedi secrets when asked about ROTS.
  7. Juggernaut86 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    Why does Obi Wan needed instruction on how to speak to Qui Gon when Luke didnt need help to speak to Obi Wan
  8. DarthGimpy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 1
    Eaxctly. It was a huge mistake not to include his voice in my opinion. In the scene that he was "suppossed" to communicate with Yoda, we just have Yoda sitting there; you can see where this was cut out. Liam Neeson is so good at having the wise and sage sounding voice and advice, it would have been wonderful. And we only need the voice; he hadn't learned enough to become a ghost before he met his end, but with his help, Obi-Wan and Yoda were able to accomplish the trick by the time of the old trilogy.

    And there's the matter of continuity as well. It would help explain a little more why his voice came out of nowhere in AOTC. And Yoda and Obi-Wan's conversation seems very weird and almost forced (Obi Wan says, "Qui-Gon!?!?!!?") without having heard from him at some point in the movie before then. They only had to add 20-30 seconds to the movie to fit that in. Should have been time well spent.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Obi-wan needed to learn, because he and the other Jedi were not listening. Yoda had only figured it out through meditation. When Obi-wan began Luke's training, he taught him the technique without his realizing it. It's something that's very simple, but long since lost to the Jedi. We didn't see all of Obi-wan's lessons to Luke enroute to Alderaan. We only saw the Lightsaber training session, which we come in the middle of.

    Yes, Obi-wan began speaking to Qui-gon a couple of months following ROTS. "Dark Lord", "The Desperate Mission", "Dark Warning" and "Last One Standing" all feature their communing with each other.
  10. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    Well, the real reason qui-gon was not in rots (his voice or his 'ghost') is that Liam Neeson was asking for a large sum of oney to play the part and thus Lucas declined to add him into the cast (however briefly that would have been).
  11. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    As far as I know, Liam liked being in SW; he kept his lightsabre, for the love of crumbcake. :p
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    PPOR. Do you know this for a fact or are you citing false information or assuming that you know? The real reason is that Lucas tested the footage of Yoda talking to Qui-gon, but he didn't like the scene. It interrupted the flow of the film and so he cut it, before Neeson was contacted. It was not about money. This was confirmed in 2005, right before the DVD release of ROTS.
  13. anakin2lordvader Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2003
    just wanted to say I really liked Qui-Gon in episode 1 & was crushed that he wasnt in episode 3.... along with Anakins fall it was the one thing I was looking foreward to possibly seeing.
  14. acinom Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2003
    By now, I've gotten used to just HEARING Qui Gon instead of seeing him in AOTC so I think it would have been weird to actually SEE him in ROTS in the scene/discussion with Yoda from the book.
  15. DarthGimpy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 1
    It's interesting to find that Lucas thought it would interrupt the flow of the film, as the major action scenes had already finished by that point, loose ends remained to be tied up, and Qui-Gon's voice would have been a good way of doing that. I disagree with him if that's true, but I'm not the film maker, and it's not like his abscence kills the movie, but I think it should have been there.
  16. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Well, Jar Jar made a lot of people angry. As a result, in the end it seems like much of TPM is generally overlooked at this point.
    Even by Lucas, if the first draft of ROTS is any indication ( not to mention joking on the Colbert show about not having the rights to the film ), and by the various book people, if the NEC ( for example ) is any indication.
    But, in fact, TPM is still canon.
  17. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    This is true. I have read this information myself.
  18. LordVader66 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2005
    star 4
    I don't have issue with Qui Gon not in RotS. I was not a huge fan of Qui Gon, anyway and the whole plot line in RotS makes sense to me. Though I would say seeing a Force Ghost Qui Gon would look pretty cool.

    As for Liam enjoying Star Wars, I have read it was not something he did not enjoy. I read on the internet (wookiepedia?) that upon hearing there was a role for an older Jedi Master in the new Star Wars movie, he told his agent "Do whatever it takes to get me that role". But once principal photography started, he absolutely hated it. I cannot recall if he gave specific reasons.

    As for Qui Gon in Dark Lord, for me Dark Lord lost a lot of credibility there at the end. When Obiwan learns Vader is alive, Qui Gon immediatly starts talking to him and goes on to say that Vader's life as a Sith is not fixed, I found it to be too hopeful and unrealistic and covienent.
  19. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    It contains a better explanation of Obi-Wan's lie in ANH than the one offered by ROTS itself, IMO.
  20. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6


    Agreed.
    What a pathetic attempt to make Ben's bold faced lie a little easier to swallow. While he was at it, why didn't Qui-Gon just spill the beans and ruin the whole saga by telling him Vader would also be redeemed. :p

    AJA
    Sometimes, more is less...
  21. Obi-Chron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2003
    star 4
    My issues in Qui-Gon not being in ROTS are three fold:

    - Jinn's 'short' voice-over to a meditating Yoda would have provided contintuity to the OT, mirroring Ben's appearance to Luke in the OT
    - Many dispassionate movie goers did not fully grasp the subtleties of what was happening in the final scenes of the movie. Qui-Gon talking to Yoda would have helped bridge that glaring 'disconnect' by providing a guiding 'force' for the way ahead.
    - The name 'Jinn' is indicative of a sprirt form, literally Arabic for 'spirit being,' the name that we get the Anglicized 'Genie' from -- Qui-Gon Jinn was literally destined to reappear in spirit form!

    Lucas alway uses the excuse: "tried it, but it didn't work!" It "didn't work" because of the trade-off for movie run time (meaning movies shown in 24 hours and number of seats filled) over story-telling, never one of Lucas' strong suits. But Lucas is our Picasso, and we have to accept and appreciate his screen equivalent of 'cubism' displayed upon his 'canvass.'
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    Because, to use the Tolkien analogy, "Even the wise cannot see all ends."
    Ben in ESB does not know what will happen; arguably, neither does Qui-Gon.
  23. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    That's what they get for being dispassionate. [face_sick] Wait -- what subtleties?
    It would have been two disembodied voices speaking. More like a Hanna-Barbera cartoon than a SW film, IMHO.
  24. E_III_fanatic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Oh man I just wish they could put Qui-Gon in there as a ghost because I found in Episode 1 that Qui-Gon was the most interesting character.
  25. Yodas_Got_Bed_Head Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2004
    star 2
    Like your take here Chron and I have to agree. Especially with your first reason.
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