*OFFICIAL THREAD* Sifo-Dyas Discussion

Qui Gon isn't Sifo because he is dead. That voice yoda heard while aniknin was killin tuskans is qui gon. So no one dare acuse Qui of bein Sifo.

 

bob your the 100th post on this thread how does it feel?

oh i agree

 

"point being he took these two apprentices while they were older not an infant"

Interesting - hadn't thought of that. Okay, assuming I agree with most others here that Sifo isn't QGJ (not giving in, just making this a temporary assumption for now), and Sifo isn't Palpy or Dooku, then I guess Maul may be a logical candidate. But why doesn't this feel right to me? It's not shocking enough for some reason. Maybe I'm trying to read way too much into this. But Sifo has been introduced as such a pivotal character, and although the other Jedis have heard about him, there is very little information about him given to the audience. While he could simply be a new character that GL plans to introduce formally in Ep3, that certainly takes ths away the shock value. That is the reason I keep coming back to QGJ. However, I am certainly less convinced of this now than I was yesterday - you're all correct when you say that it would completely change QGJ's character. But, man, what a deception that would be...

 

hey it can be a new character or just a name thaht was used.
good eg. anikin talked about being owned by a hutt before watto. we don't discuss that hutt. but sifo is different this jedi (impersinated or not) ordered the clone army without authorization. maybe his intentions were good and maybe he forsaw a sith in the senate, but was killed and the sith used it for their own benefit.
it 's just that maul died to suddenly. only two battles and he was defeated, also he talked about revenge. tyranus wanted power to go with his wealth in my opinion. vader we know snapped and wanted revenge. what was maul's beef? palpy doesnt want revenge IMO he just wanted power and the jedi were an obstacle and threat. i always felt that palpy was more of a polititian/mastermind than a fighter, just very powerful in the force.
edit: it doesn't feel right
maybe thats the point(twist) something we overlooked.

 

i like the idea of diyas being darth maul. it makes a lot of sense as maul was working for sidious at the time that "diyas" ordered the clones. it would also be cool if this somehow set up a return for darth maul in ep3 as a clone. some secret clones ordered especially by the emporer?

 

hmmmm they could be the royal guards.
again any clone theory holds water.
since they made an army what prevents them from making few.

 

Sifo-Dyas most likely be Sidious, but unlikely as Obi-Wan would have said something a little stronger
to the Kiminoanis then than "Really?"

Facts and clues:

Qui-Gon Gin has differing views about the Force to Yoda, from which we learn
that he measures Force potential by checking blood. The existence of
Midiclorians "IN YOUR CELLS" prove that strength in the Force can be cloned!

Yoda hears and senses Qui-Gon Gin alive in the Force. (When Anakin kills the
Tuskans, "Anakin ! NO!!") A fact that Yoda beliefs is impossible in the
book.

It doesn't seem likly that Qui-Gon had attached himself to Anakin or Obi-Wan
given the way he screwed up with Darth Maul.

If there where a 'puppet'
Qui-Gon clone waiting to be born somewhere awaiting its own release and
the real Qui-Gon died 'about ten years before'....

teach the Jedi how to transfer their 'self' to another
which seems to be unknown at the moment...


Sifo-Dyas, a leading member of the Jedi council who might have died or
disappeared ten years ago was interested in or investigating cloning and
talked about a Jedi donor for the cloning. (Edited lines between Obi-Wan and Kaminoan, see script or book.)

Dooku was known as Lord Tyranus as long ago as ten years when he recruited
Jango.

Dooku, Qui-Gon Gin appeared be close, but none appear to be linked too closely to Darth Sidieous or Palpatine. Dooku did not
recognise the army as the clone army he helped order, a clear indication
that he had been manipulated by Darth Sidious, while privously acting for his own
ends.

IS Sifo-Dyas Palpatine? After faking his own death, cloning himself then
becoming Palpatine an Sidious. Why? He doesn't have the time to do it for
one thing and if he was already a member of the jedi council way give up that place?

This is the plot I seen unfoldingeverthing is proceeding as I have
foreseen!)
Darth Sidious has been 20-30 years coming to power. Palpatine is a puppet clone. Behind Palpatine in AOTC in his first scene is figure with a long neck, (hidden in high collar) he exits the room as soon as Amidala arrives. (A Kaminoan?)

About ten years ago Sidious used the Trade federation to steal Naboo's resources
sending his apprentice deliberately to his death as a distraction to mask
other events.

Palpatine had been carrying out research into the possibility of using
clones against the Jedi. Dooku left the Jedi order becoming Tyranus
independent of this and later met Sidious. Sometime on Dooku discovers that
Sidious and Palpatine are one.

Palpatine has cloned the Jedi council and other leading Jedi masters. These
clones become mature and were moved to Corroscant about ten years ago
(Possibly at the same time as TPM when all eyes were on Naboo and the ill
fated apprentice-sabre fodder Darth Maul!) Sifo-Dyas discovered this and
tries to investigate, Dooku (unaware of the full events) and Sidious kill
him and order the clone army.

The evil clones of the Jedi council are placed near them hence thier
blindness due to the darkside.

Yoda is tricked into leading the Clone army to help is Jedi colleagues.
(Bad Yoda! You started the war!)

Other events start to put the Jedi under suspicion from the disorganised and
manipulated senate. The clone army are far too destructive and effective in
destroying the trade federation and other groups who are now aligned against
the Republic, Yoda must be stopped! Yoda is evil cry the senate! (Funny
those groups would have been the only ones strong enough to support the
Republic from an outside threat, and Palpatine decided to fight them from the
inside. Palpatine is very subtle?)

Palpatine tires to control the senators who start to blame the Jedi for the
collapse of the Republic as they start using bounty hunters to hunt down the
Jedi. (Return of Boba and Jabba who were killing jedi when it meant
something to be one! Quote RotJ)

A clone Qui-Gon teachs the Jedi how to transfer their 'self' to another - the ghost effect of which only he has experience which seems to be unknown a

 

Woah, ten out of ten for effort there, Maximus

Diyas was definitely Darth Maul, if anyone has any valid objection to that i'd like to hear it

 

wow i liked the theory. but im still firm on maul.
but check out EU section in OS site databanks on palpy and that can give some water for your bucket.

edit:credit given to marty_mcfly for pointing this out

 

OK guys,

Here is why the Maul theory sinks. Crappy made up dialogue to follow:

Mace Windu: Lama Su, thank you for cooperating. Finding out the identity of the Jedi impersonator is imperitive in proving the Jedi's innocence.

Lama Su: We are happy to help with your investigation, Master Jedi.

Obi-Wan: Is there anything you can tell us about this....Sifo-Dyas?

Lama Su: Certainly, he was very soft spoken, seemed very private, and oh yes...HE HAD HORNS AND RED FACIAL TATTOOS!

Mace Windu: This is the proof we need to convince the Republic that the Jedi have been framed.

 

actually the tattoes are sith tattoes. meaning they were put on after he converted.
body fell down the hole. no body to id.

 

Sidious: Welcome home, Lord Tyranus.

Dooku: The Force is with us Master. The war has begun.

Dooku knew about the clones, he was lying to Nute. Nute doesn't know that Dooku, his opposition to the Sith, is a Sith now. Note that he calls himself Dooku in front of everyone, except for Jango, who knows he's Tyranus.

No clones of Maul, it violates the rule of 2.

Sidious (Cid-E-Us) and Sifo-Dyas (Cyf-O-Die-As) are not the same man.

 

Obi-Wan couldn't ID him?

BTW, Eeth Koth is the same species as Maul and he also bears facial tatoos. I don't think Maul just went out and got them after he was done impersonating Sifo-Dyas.

Another quick point. Don't you think that the Kamonians would have security surveillance of some sort available?

 

I'm sure someone has seen the updated databak entries at the OS. Under yoda's the databank talks about sifo-dyas, and says that he ordered the clones.

It pretty much states that sifo was a real Jedi.
"An entire clone army had been secretly created for the Republic, by decree of a late Jedi, Sifo-Dyas. None in the Council knew of this development, nor had they foreseen it."

So does this put an end to the discussion, or does the wording leave it open?????

 

"Diyas was definitely Darth Maul, if anyone has any valid objection to that i'd like to hear it..."

1. Darth Maul is toast.

If you really need convincing he was an *Apprentice* only! Not a Sith master! He was sent to his doom by Sidious!

Sifo-Diyas was know to Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan killed Darth Maul. Obi-Wan didn't hesitate before killing Darth Maul nor did he say "Oh sorry Jedi master I mistook you for a Sith Lord!" after cutting him in half and toasting him a reactor!

Darth Maximus

"If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!"

 

no Maximus, obiwan nevers says he personally knew sifo-diyas. there are thousands of jedi at that time and i doubt that they were all on first name terms with each other

and my reasons for thinking that diyas was maul:

1. maul was working for sidious at the time that "diyas" ordered the clones

2. sidious is only allowed to have one apprentice at a time and the sith like to keep to themselves, so that rules out any outside help

3. maul's background is never mentioned in TPM, by revealing that he was the jedi sifo-diyas and turned to the dark side would fill out his character nicely which many would like to see

4. sifo-diyas' death is unclear so it might have been that he disappeared and was presumed dead, that links with maul's death in TPM, as diyas he might have left saying that he had important things to do, then got "maulled" at the hands of obiwan (pun intended), so the jedi never found out about his death.


neat, huh?
let me know what you think

 

I didn't say Obi-wan personally knew Sifo-Dyas. Obi-Wan knew OF him, and knew that he was belived dead. I didn't admit to killing him him disguised as Darth Maul.

No matter how much you liked Darth Maul he is gone. His background is not important he was a FAILED Sith apprentice!

I honestly belive Sifi-Dyas and Captain Antilles (the other character we never see) are having a beer in a Bar somewhere laughing at us right now!!

Yoda presummed Sifo-Dyas died right before he placed the order for the Clones.

PS Darth Maul is dead.

 

maximus, show me even one flaw in the logic of the reasons i listed.

if you can't, then search your feelings, maul was diyas, you know it to be true!

 

It would make sense that Sideus is Sifo but there is one flaw. Who deleted the libary entres for Kameno. I don't think it was dokku
cause he was kicked out by then.

 

Theres no telling how long that the files were deleted before it was discovered. But I also don't think it was Dooku because I was under the impression that Dooku left the Jedi Order because of all the politics and corruption. I think he then fell to the Dark Side at a later time.

 

So if we figure out who deleted the files then we find sifo!

 

Dooku was "Sifo-Dyas." He took his name and erased Kamino and ordered the Clones. Jango said he was hired by Tyranus to be the clone template. "Sifo-Dyas" orders the clones. Well, guess what? It's the same sucker who hired Jango. Sifo-Dyas died before Naboo. Yoda has seen the body. Jedi cremate the dead. Obi-wan never saw Sifo-Dyas, only heard that he died.

 

i always felt that the order was given by sifo(maul) with a template to be named after.
after maul split(pun) tyranus chose jango.

also

if sifo is one of the lost 20 he left before dooku. he had his life after a jedi before turning to the darkside but kept hidden. when he died, word was given to the council of sifo dying its just nobody put 2 and 2 together. maul died around the same time.

the reason it still sticks around is that

A) sifo death is ??? see the movie and his death is reffered to his death(like passing) and later as killed.

B) we assume he was in cahoots with sidois at the time. IMO if QGJ and Dooku did not like the jedi council following orders from the senate, how many other jedi masters have the same feling.

C) they could have had the name a mystery. the kamino peps could have kept there mouth shut. or left this whole planet a mytery til ep 3. but Nooooooooooooo they have to say his name. WHY???


edit: there is no background on sifo in OS. but they have a background on other jedi that died during the arena battle. these jedi are not more important then sifo IMO.

also if darth maul was a small character why the bio in OS. this happened with dooku when the movie came out dooku was not in the OS databanks now it is. IMO sifo will have his bio by ep3.

 

Jedi seen in the films. We haven't seen Sifo-Dyas. Maul has a bio because he was seen in the film. 200 Jedi were in the arena. Mostly the Council and a few others were listed.

The Lost 20 are the only Jedi to quit for personal reasons. Dooku is the only one to have lied.

 

Not sure if this has been brought up, but here is what I believe:

The Facts:
-The Kaminoans think that a REAL Jedi named Sifo-Dyas ordered the clones.
-Count Dooku left the order at the same time.
-Jango says he was hired by Tyranus, and never heard of Sifo-Dyas.

Now if the same people we're hired for the same job, and they we're both given different names, it's still the same person, right? So I think that Dooku was in league with Sidious while Dooku was still in the order. Dooku waited until a Jedi died (he didn't choose Qui-Gon because he was his apprentice that's why GL threw that in there), and used his name to order the clones for Sidious. The whole Sifo-Dyas Sidious thing is a coincidince.