*OFFICIAL THREAD* Sifo-Dyas Discussion

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Mr_Infinity, May 29, 2002.

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  1. vaderfandan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2004
    star 2
    Lucas didn't mess up. People put too much investment in the whole Sifo-Dyas mystery, myself included.

    With all due respect, I don't think it's fair to blame "us" (you, me, Star Wars fans) on wanting an
    on-screen resolution to Sifo-Dyas.

    You can't just thow a name out there, make him responisble for ordering the Clones, and then just drop it
    with no explaination or resolution. Why even bring up the name in the first place? Even if it's a red herring,
    you have to reveal it as such.

    Take the name Tyranus. We know it's Dooku, because Sidous calls Dooku "Tyranus" at the end of ATOC.
    That name is revealed and explained.

    Sifo-Dyas is not. The look between Mace & Yoda when his name is mentioned, only clouds the issue more.


    VFD
  2. JustinPeeler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 4
    If you go by AOTC, it is clear that Jango never heard of Sifo Dyas and that Sifo Dyas was killed before the clones were ordered. It is clear that Tyrannus recruited Jango and erased the files, and you can assume either he or Sidious ordered the clones.

    The VD and the scrap book say Sifo did it because that's what Darth Sidious said happened in LOE. So, it's only when you go by the EU that things get confused.
  3. Leias_love_slave Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2003
    star 5
    Lucas didn't mess up. People put too much investment in the whole Sifo-Dyas mystery, myself included.

    sinister, I believed Lucas when he said:

    "Someone in the Jedi Order has been hiding this whole system from the Jedi archives. It does come out eventually in the next movie, exactly what's behind all this, but I wanted to have it there in this movie, but not so strongly that you asked a lot of questions about who is the one that erased the tapes...

    ...and who started the army and how all that works 'cause it's something unfortunately that doesn't get revealed until the third film." - George Lucas (AOTC commentary)

    I believed there was more going on than the obvious...

    ...because Lucas implied there was. By the end of AOTC, it's obvious that Sidious and Dooku are behind the creation of the army. So what was going to be resolved in the third film that now won't be because it doesn't really matter anyway, etc. etc.? :confused:

    Surely the 'mystery' couldn't be about whether it was Sidious or Dooku? That seems a bit trivial, like suggesting that the mystery of which side of the bed each sleeps on won't be resolved until the next film.

    The 'crazy' theories might have been silly at times, but Lucas opened the door to all the speculation by implying that after watching AOTC, the mystery still wasn't resolved.
  4. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    By "showing us how it works," we will be put in a position to understand it for ourselves.

    We could see another Jedi in similar circumstances and say, "Ahhh, that's what happened to Sifo."

    Like, for example, if Sifo was not in control of his actions, or something.


    Observing that Anakin has wrecked a particular statue in the temple, certain parties may have occasion to discuss the Jedi depicted therein. (Who IS that guy, levitating a ball, anyway? Peculiar that George would give him a mannerism just like Anakin's...)

    Jocasta 'coincidentally' has a statue of Dooku nearby, so a discussion can naturally happen about that character...? - that kind of thing.

  5. darthRebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    I agree the syfo dyas should be explained.I still think it was the master of mace windu who was tricked by sidious into ordering clones for republic and syfo asking his jedi padawan mace to delete the files for the republic.That way anakin can see the jedi will do anything to keep their power,even make war and create an army,they are no different to sith.And when mace shows no mercy on sidous anakin will chop his hand of.Only this way I can see why anakin would have a grudge against jedi enough to join somebody who realy betrays him,starts war,who's apprentice tried to kill his wife ,prob sidious did too,the persons that maybe conspired a plan to kill schmi and lies to him in his face proving to be a the worst friend of all.But well lucas prob will make it ridiculous ,hehe.Anyways syfo needs to be mentioned ,he said it himself a couple times.he cannot afford to not explain it ,it would make the movie ridiculous.don't trust lucas.Its like the whole kidnapping thing of palpatine.I think its stupid to not let such an important act not be in the movies and leave it to the cartoons or something.How did dooku do it,I want to know,hehe
  6. darthRebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    Its a good thing he didn't leave the dooku-anakin fight for the cartoons,he is capable of anything now ,Maybe he is getting a little bit senile.
  7. darthRebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    Or a new opening crawl

    During the clone wars anakin has become a sith lord and is making the final arrangments to raid the jedi temple and slaughter all the younglins with the help of the clone army ordered by master syfo dyas.Masters yoda and obi wan are leaving their battlefields and are now passengers aboard bail organa's ship while kit fisto is searching for his lost head to prepare a rebellion against the sith lord on coruscant.In a race against time the jedi will have to move quickly to save the galaxy from a terrible massacre and save the younglings from a horrible destiny.

    No seriously ,syfo dyas should at least be mentioned.It has to be explained.


  8. Darth_Board Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 1
    What's with the triple post?

    And what's with this thread? The answers are out there and have been approved by Lucas whether we like it or not. No, the EU stuff is not exactly canon but it's the approved version of the story and in the absence of anything else it's good enough. Yes, it's unfortunate that the name got dropped out there and not explained but what will it matter to any of us on May 19th?

    As Tarkin would say, "This bickering is pointless." Sadly, as Bail Organa would say, "Unfortunately the debate is not over."

    Hey! I have an idea. Since it's clear no one is going to convince anyone here, let's have Lowe, Howell, Justin, Shane and anybody else that wants to fight over this take each other on in a cage match. Sinister, since he's level-headed (he even admitted he had initially been wrong about this; I admit the same) and a moderator, can referee. The winner can have the last word on all this. I think it would be more pleasant in the end and a whole lot more fun to watch.
  9. WormieOnARampage Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2005
    it doesnt really matter....the point is he was used...killed....and the clones were ordered

    That just about covers it. We don't even see this guy onscreen and most people make such a big deal out of it.

    --No, no, that's not the problem--the "problem" is the name was repeated several times in AotC, so you might think he's an important character or something. The problem isn't Lucas' storytelling. I guess you could say the problem is how this particular issue has been handled. Pablo says that Sifo-Dyas is on-screen, then tries to retract it [CORRECTION: blastshield is right: he said the person who ordered the clones was on-screen in AotC! And he was right...ok, so this is less confusing!] EU provides contradictory information. etc. There's no real story.

    OK, look: *Screamingly obvious to anyone who saw AotC*: Sidous and Dooku ordered the clones. Not obvious: how the name Sifo-Dyas got involved in any of it. I wouldn't think it was a big deal, if the name hadn't been mentioned five or six times during the film, and if Yoda hadn't made a big deal about how the clone order was unauthorized. It just raises the expectation that this is an important plot point.

    I'm happy to assume that Dooku and/or Sidious somehow used the name Sifo-Dyas to order the clones. I just wanted some confirmation on-screen that my assumption is correct, because this is kind of the central event in the downfall of the Republic, isn't it?

    Nobody doubts that the Sith *did* order the clones. What's never completely explained on-screen is *how*.

    On the other hand, I realize the characters in the film might not know either, which is maybe supposed to be the point. If so, I would have preferred for this idea to be developed further, but it's at least an interesting idea.
  10. SithMaster83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2005
    star 2
    ^^^^^^^ OF COURSE it is a central event....but honestly does it matter WHO ordered the clones....NO....it matters who was BEHIND them being ordered....and that is the SITH....that is all we REALLY NEED to know...
  11. darthRebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    I dont its logical that we have to assume things like that.Something like that should definitly be explained or not be mentioned at all.Mister X ordered the clones and thats it.I think its very important who exactly ordered them without have to looking it up in novels or internet or from lucas quotes.A normal person that goes to the movies must be able to sit there with a blanc mind and understand the story with what is been given in the movies.And so far it is not explained in the movies and lucas said it himself it was going to be revealed in ROTS.Or its in it or he messed up this thing...
  12. darthRebel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    And many people who are going to see the movie won't know about palpatine being kidnapped.They will ask themselves :when did this happen ,I must have missed something,oh its not in the movies you say...its in the books...oooookkkeee.hehe
  13. WormieOnARampage Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2005
    You don't think it matters who ordered the clones? It just seems like the Jedi would be interested in figuring it out! Especially if there was suspicious evidence. They are the police, after all. Furthermore, if there really *was* a Sifo-Dyas who was acting against the council, wouldn't that an interesting and important fact? I mean, the last guy who did that was Count Dooku...
  14. WormieOnARampage Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2005
    "The look between Yoda and Mace was a "What the hell?" expression."

    _sinister, you're right: that was how I interpreted it.
  15. WormieOnARampage Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2005
    "By thinking a real Jedi Master that they knew and trusted ordered the clones, the Jedi had no reason to suspect the clones would turn on them."

    --Peeler, I agree, but there's a problem: Yoda thinks the person who ordered the clones didn't have the authorization of the council! So if they think Sifo-Dyas did it, they also think he was working for someone else--or else for himself. So why did they take charge of the army no questions asked? It seems like they *wouldn't* trust him, and so they *should* be suspicious of the clones. This also seems important--you would expect there would at least be a line from Mace or Yoda about "Well, I'm really nervous about this army...we don't know why it was ordered!" Maybe there will be, but I couldn't find it in the book.
  16. SithMaster83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2005
    star 2
    So why did they take charge of the army no questions asked?

    UMMM BECAUSE THEY NEEDED AN ARMY!...DUH....THEY WERE ABOUT TO B ATTACKED BY A HUGE DROID ARMY.....EVEN IF THEY WERENT 100% SURE....they HAD to take that chance
  17. Darth_Howell_III Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2002
    star 4

    Anyhow, the Army was "for the Republic," not "for the Jedi."

  18. Alkemist Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2005
    What makes me laugh even harder are some of the people coming up with these lame theries envolving Syfo-Dyas not even existing, and that it was Dooku's name before he left the jedi order. Syfo Dyas is AN ACTUAL JEDI he has been mentioned and even had a cameo in the visionary comics.....heres a picture of him, my god.

    http://img159.echo.cx/img159/4996/syfodyas5qx.png

  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    I believed there was more going on than the obvious...

    ...because Lucas implied there was. By the end of AOTC, it's obvious that Sidious and Dooku are behind the creation of the army. So what was going to be resolved in the third film that now won't be because it doesn't really matter anyway, etc. etc.?

    Surely the 'mystery' couldn't be about whether it was Sidious or Dooku? That seems a bit trivial, like suggesting that the mystery of which side of the bed each sleeps on won't be resolved until the next film.

    The 'crazy' theories might have been silly at times, but Lucas opened the door to all the speculation by implying that after watching AOTC, the mystery still wasn't resolved.


    Lucas said that he would reveal who erased the Archives. In ROTS we know that only a Jedi Master could access the Archives. Since Dooku left years ago, it was him. And who was behind the Clone Army, Darth Sidious when he issues "Order 66." The problem is that fans took it too much to heart while casual viewers probably don't even remember Sifo-Dyas.
  20. 2Cleva Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 4
    >>>Lucas said that he would reveal who erased the Archives. In ROTS we know that only a Jedi Master could access the Archives. Since Dooku left years ago, it was him. And who was behind the Clone Army, Darth Sidious when he issues "Order 66." The problem is that fans took it too much to heart while casual viewers probably don't even remember Sifo-Dyas.

    Very true Sinister. I argued that same thing many moons ago.

    This link really finishes the whole subject.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/SnakePlisken/VD_13_Dooku.jpg

    And in 100% honesty, I completely figured as much before I even walked out of the theatre from seeing AOTC.

    Quit making SW more than it is. Just because some make up some new idea its toilet paper - someone's own stuff they are spitting out.

    The saga is how GL wants it. Deal with it.
  21. WormieOnARampage Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2005
    "UMMM BECAUSE THEY NEEDED AN ARMY!...DUH....THEY WERE ABOUT TO B ATTACKED BY A HUGE DROID ARMY.....EVEN IF THEY WERENT 100% SURE....they HAD to take that chance"

    Ok, so...it didn't even matter whether a Jedi ordered it or not!

    I agree they needed to take charge of the army. It's what happens afterwards that I question.

    I just figure they might have started asking some questions afterwards...RotS takes place three years after AotC. That whole time, they didn't wonder why anyone would order a huge clone army?
  22. SithMaster83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2005
    star 2
    ^^^Ummm how do u KNOW they didnt wonder....they just probably had no way of finding out.....dont u think they WONDERED when DOOKU told them there was a SITH controlling the SENATE????? of course they did....but they couldnt figure the whole thing out for another three years and by this time who placed the order was irrelevant as they juss needed to know the SITH were behind it
  23. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    Justin Peeler
    And the Prequels would have sucked

    Living under a rock? Take a look around.
  24. WormieOnARampage Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2005
    they just probably had no way of finding out...

    --That's probably true.

    dont u think they WONDERED when DOOKU told them there was a SITH controlling the SENATE????? of course they did....but they couldnt figure the whole thing out for another three years

    --Possibly, and that makes sense. But we shouldn't have to assume important information like who ordered the clones. If it wasn't so important, fine. But it's important.

    and by this time who placed the order was irrelevant as they juss needed to know the SITH were behind it

    --Yes, once Order 66 is executed, it becomes more or less irrelevant. But you'd think they would still wonder if Sifo-Dyas did it or not. Again, we're forced to assume that they just figured "Well, they just used his name do order the clones." But why should we have to assume important information like this?
  25. JustinPeeler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 4
    ShaneP posted on 4/11/05 11:14am
    Justin Peeler
    And the Prequels would have sucked

    Living under a rock? Take a look around.

    />

    The Prequels are better than anything you, Howell and Emos could have come up with. When you guys create a pair of movies that make over a billion dollars then you can start giving Lucas plot advice./>/>
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