*OFFICIAL THREAD* Sifo-Dyas Discussion

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by Mr_Infinity, May 29, 2002.

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  1. sithbiker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2005
    My view is that Sidious ordered the clones under Sifo's name.
    He is the one with the long term plan to become emperor. He pulls the strings of his apprentises and the sepratists.
    With his plans to start the clone wars and to take power in the republic, it wouldn't make sense for a jedi to have done it. That wouldn't fit in with sidious' plan.
  2. 50_senator_LFG Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2005
    Did nobody here read the "Return of the Sith" book?




    Sidious tells Annikan about a powerful jedi named Sifo-Dyas that learned to cheat death and could see how everybody else would die..... except for himself you see because Sidious killed him in his sleep.


    Sidious tells this to Annikan in the book and prehaps in the movie. This is when Sidious asks Annikan to join him so that they both together can learn this power.
  3. JustinPeeler Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2003
    star 4
    [link=http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=50_senator_LFG]50_senator_LFG[/link] posted on 5/8/05 7:55am




    Sidious tells Annikan about a powerful jedi named Sifo-Dyas that learned to cheat death and could see how everybody else would die..... except for himself you see because Sidious killed him in his sleep.


    Sidious tells this to Annikan in the book and prehaps in the movie. This is when Sidious asks Annikan to join him so that they both together can learn this power.

    />

    Um, no, that was Darth Palgeius, not Sifo Dyas./>/>
  4. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Read "Labyrinth Of Evil" and the ROTS Visual Directory.
  5. EwokThatCried Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 22, 2003
    star 4
    50_senator_LFG, that had to be a joke, right?

    So do we still have some folks thinking this is going to factor into the movie? Have we received any retracted statements by conspricay theorists?
  6. D_Lowe Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    Did nobody here read the "Return of the Sith" book?
    Sidious tells Annikan about a powerful jedi named Sifo-Dyas that learned to cheat death and could see how everybody else would die


    I'd say you need to read the book again.
  7. darthRebel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    we know its fact now that Syfo dyas was a real jedi who ordered the clone army for the republic and sidious ordered dooku to kill him as a prove of loyalty.

    Obviously this jedi would not ask the kaminoans to implant the clones with the order to kill their commanders (in this case the jedi generals)would make no sense...

    my questions on this
    1)how did palpatine know that syfo dyas had ordered the clones?
    2)why did syfo dyas hide it?,eventualy he had to reveal it,cause otherwise it would not have been discovered and could not have been used?plus risking getting expelled from order and army not used anyways?
    3)when did dooku or sidious contact the kaminoans to ask them to implant the order?and would this not have made them suspicious?Its weird that a jedi would order an army for the republic and that after that another person would come and ask extra modifications?Plus palpatine wasn't an emperor at that time so he could not make an order like that by himself?Its strange the kaminoans did no research of any kind.And their dialogue suggests to me nobody came to ask them anything after syfo dyas ordered them ,cause they were afraid nobody would come to collect the army.They were anxiously expecting someone like obiwan.
    4)If it was syfo dyas ,the real person who ordered them and got killed later,how did he pay for them?He could not have stolen or used republic credits,cause that would have given him away and made him suspicious?this also rules out that dooku payed for the army,no?so was this syfo dyas an oil industrialist?I thought jedi had no possesion and were poor.(non materialistic).(and its stated the kaminos only care about your pocket book size ,thus its clear they wanted to see some money first before they started cloning.here you can say syfo dyas foresaw his own dead and would have expected his rich friend dooku to pay for the army,lol ,problem here,i don't think syfo dyas wanted to get killed.hehe,so he should have been able to pay for the army without dookus or sidious help,how???...
    5)Isn't it strange jango told obi wan who hired him?Come on ,jango says he was hired by a man called darth tyranus...darth-sith.This should make obi wan suspicious of the army.Why didn't he tell yoda about this darth tyranus immidiatly.I think yoda would not have used an army created by sith to help jedi,he would not have trusted it.WHy didn't jango say:I was hired by james t kirk or a jedi or syfo dyas or whateve.


    6)Most importantly ...if syfo dyas ordered the clones and sidious told dooku about that and asked him to kill syfo dyas then why did dooku still need to go and hire a template for the clone army.Didn't the kaminoans ask syfo dyas???Didn't syfo plan this,afteral it was he who wanted an army for the republic to protect it.so he orders an army and then the kaminoans don't ask him who they should use??and then syfo pays ,says bye bye and gets killed??and then dooku goes to bogden ,returns to kamino and says to the kaminoans they should use jango?what if they already started to create the army??

    hehe,a thing like that should be in the movies...Its a big plothole if you ask me.Probably why lucas doesn't mention it,to dangerous material to touch.normaly some people are quick to respond to things like this ,posting quotes or referring to novels or just saying its obvious...well I don't think that at all.
  8. darthRebel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    can anybody post an answer to my question before this thread gets forgotten in the darkest corners of this forum?amazing no flamers saying its obvious after 20 minutes already?
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    1. Palpatine asked Sifo-Dyas to place the order, then had Dooku kill him.

    2. Sifo-Dyas never got the chance to tell anyone, because of his death. Dooku erased Kamino, before officially walking away from the Jedi Order.

    3. Jango would've been the one to give the Kaminoans a list of orders for the Clone Army to obey. Dooku would've handed it to him, to give to them.

    4. The mysterious man known as Tyranus paid for it.

    5. Sifo-Dyas had placed the order, but was going to hand pick the template. Jango showed up and they assumed Sifo-Dyas sent him. They don't know Sifo-Dyas is dead until Obi-wan tells them.
  10. darthRebel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2004
    star 2
    ok,I can live with that explenation:)
  11. Corin_Havek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 1
    Tips on making your post easier to read:

    donttype like this in all spaces and never end a sentencebecause it gets veryhard 2 rd and ppldont like to sit through the whoel thing wondering wht thehehck yourr were talkingabout and stuff and stuff and stuff and when yourrrdealing with a numbered list tryand putspaces in between the numbers otherwise pepole cant separatethe individualthoughts of what your talking about about about

    It would be nice if everyone followed this simple rule.
  12. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    It's funny but this thread only exists for those who don't believe what was said in AotC, by George Lucas himself, the Official Site, and most recently Labyrinth of Evil.
  13. Senor_Sixwings Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2005
  14. obi1andreasen79 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2005
    star 4
    It may seem this way on the surface..........Personally...I believe these sources...but still feel it would have only taken a couple seconds of dialogue in the actual FILM to bring complete closure to this issue....I never like when something is brought up in one film...then disregarded in the next. To me..after a little thought..it becomes obvious who the traitor is at the end of AOTC, when we realize Dooku is in league with Darth Sidious. If you understand that....the erasing in the archives,and the sifo dyas red herring, puzzle pieces fall into place.

    STILL....someone on the council should have said something about it in ROTS. Thats not to say I'm not happy with the saga,or didn't immensely enjoy ROTS, it just bugs me a little.
  15. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Then you're not a real fan :p

    To me, Sifo-Dyas does not need to be mentioned in ROTS, because I don't need to know his exact involvement. All I need to know is that the Sith were behind everything. Knowing that, I can assume that they used his name because he was dead and therefore couldn't deny anything.



    Fans - they blow
    /LM
  16. Vaeron Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2005
    star 1
    A lot of this fuss and confusion is due mainly to the movies refusal to call Count Dooku by his 'real name', or his Sith name, Darth Tyranus. He is never referred to as Darth Tyranus, EVEN ONCE, in the entire trilogy. The Sith lords are: Darth Sidious, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, Darth Plaguis (in passing) and... Count Dooku? So the reference to a man named Tyranus hiring Jango on the moons of Blepterion 17 don't mean squat to the average movie-going Joe - as far as they know Tyranus adn Sifo-Dyas both are confusing, unknown characters. Sidious naming Dooku as Tyranus at the end of AotC doesn't help, because no one makes the connection or even remembers Jango's comments by that point except us fans.

    While the whole thing is perfectly obvious to a fan just from the movies, the fact that these threads still crop up is proof that it was insufficiently explained that Darth Tyranus hired Jango to help create the clones, and that Count Dooku is Darth Tyranus.

    Count Dooku... ah, that really annoys me. I thought Sith Lords weren't supposed to use their real names anymore after their rebirths. And don't tell me Palpatine is Sidious' real name, he's probably used hundreds of them!
  17. Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    I thought Sith Lords weren't supposed to use their real names anymore after their rebirths.

    Says who? That's your own assumption. Tyranus is obviously a name Dooku uses for his more shady affairs. Officially, his name is Dooku.

    The stuff with Tyranus hiring Jango and someone who calls himself Sifo-Dyas placing the order for the clone army is stuff that you don't need to understand in order to get the plot. I seriously doubt that the regular joe cares enough to stay curious for more than one movie.



    Tyranus - he is unknown
    /LM
  18. Darth_Turkey Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2004
    star 4
    He is never referred to as Darth Tyranus, EVEN ONCE, in the entire trilogy
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    He may not be referred to as "Darth Tyrannus", but he is refferred to by the name Lord Tyranus, and simply "Tyranus" by Jango-Fet and Palpetine. Darth does'nt need to come into it, Darth Vader is referred to many times as Lord Vader or simply Vader, we still know who is being referred to though.

    Remember Dooko is still living a double life, he does not want everyone to know he's a sith. To the bounty Hunter he reqruits to create the clone army he is Tyrannus (that way he is not linked back to the Jedi) but to the trade federation and commerce guilds he is still Dooko, former jedi, political leader and friendly face, who seeks help out the Trade federation by leasing with Sideous and them to create an army and fight back against the republic for their previous defeat in TPM.

    Dooko is both and none of these things. The clone army are ordered by himself under an assumed name (Sypho Dyas) again to prevent linking him back to the Jedi, and the Trade federation are meerly puppets with which to play. A war is needed so the secret clone army can be spread throughout the galaxy on the premise of security and protection from this war, and when the time is right, turn them and take control of the galaxy.

    Very clever realy.
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Dooku not refered to as Tyranus?

    Dooku: "The Force is with us, Master Sidious."

    Sidious: "Welcome home, Lord Tyranus."

    Surely you recall that line in AOTC.


    As to answering who Sifo-Dyas was, it was in AOTC. He was a Jedi Master who was killed ten years earlier. Who ordered the Clone Army is answered in ROTS, when Palpatine issues "Order 66." Everything else is from the eu and for those who are concerned with it in a more detailed manner.
  20. DarthBlanco Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2004
    star 4
    Here's what you need to know, from the Visual Encyclopedia of ROTS.

    Sifo-Dyas was a member of the Jedi Council, who was selected by Palpatine to go to Kamino to order a cloned army for the Republic. None of the other council members knew this. The Kaminoans really wanted to clone a Jedi, but a different kind of warrior was to be selected.

    Sidious recruited Dooku to be his apprentice after the death of Darth Maul. As part of his initiation, Dooku was forced to kill his friend, Sifo-Dyas. This in effect silenced the only person to know about the cloning except Palpatine/Sidious and Dooku. Dooku was transformed into Darth Tyrannus where he recruited Jango Fett to be the clone host.

    Dooku then erased all information about Kamino from the Jedi Archives.

    So all this speculation of who Sifo-Dyas was can be ended.


    It would have been so good to see this slowly pan out in TPM and AOTC. Syfo could have been a maverick Jedi like Qui-Gon who was sympathetic to the Naboo cause and wary of the weakness of the Republic. The newly appointed Chancelor Palpatine would request him to place the order in TPM nicely fitting in to the timescale of things. Dooku could have been introduced as a Jedi council member as well.

    I my opinion this was the subplot that the first two prequals were lacking!! Im not bashing ROTS though (but what was the whole Greivous thing about, he should have been around earlier on in the saga too!!).
  21. Vaeron Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2005
    star 1
    My point was who Sifo Dyas was is irrelevant. Ok, Sifo-dyas was the name of a real, but dead, Jedi master Dooku used to commission the clones.

    Obi-wan himself points out that he died BEFORE the clones were ordered (more than ten years ago, at any rate). This means Dooku/Tyranus used the fake identity of Sifo Dyas to commission the clones, erased the Kamino system from the temple, and hired Jango Fett to be the template... I was speculating this might be unclear because of the Tyranus/Dooku name difference. It seems pretty obvious to me, but there are 84 pages in this thread, which suggests some confusion or disagreement over the matter.

    Even if Sifo Dyas is expounded upon in the EU (I have no idea) it is clear that he died prior to the cloning business. Perhaps even before TPM ("No one can kill a jedi" "I wish that were so"). I certainly don't remember him being on the Council, or Dooku either for that matter. This probably means the Dooku/Sifo Dyas business had already gone down at this point.
  22. JediCouncilMaster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2005
    star 6
    Sifo Dyas was a Jedi Council Master(hint: my user name.;)lol.) in the Order. He was also a close friend to Dooku(just before he turned to the Sith). Sifo Dyas has the gift of foresight or can see the future in his dreams, medidtations, etc. He saw the Republic facing hard times and fighting harsh battles. So without the approval of the Senate or the Council he ordered them from secret in Kamino. Sidious found out of his order and plan and used it to his advantage in the Future. So with Dooku turned to the Sith Sidious ordered Dooku to kill his Jedi friend to show how much he cares in the Dark Side. Then after Sifo Dyas' death Dooku deleted the files in the archive and took on 'Sifo Dyas' ordering identity(Just imagine like you steal someone's credit card and use it for yourself.) just like that.
  23. obi1andreasen79 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2005
    star 4
    I recently got the comic star wars visionaries and it had a cool story about the origin of General Grievous. After Grievous's shuttle crash, Dooku says he is returning to Serenno for something important. Turns out it's jedi master Sifo Dyas, in some kind of stasis tube. He then uses Sifo Dyas's blood for a transfusion to Grievous.
    I have to admit though, my first thought was "why in the heck would dooku keep sifo dyas in a tube?"
    Any thoughts?
  24. JediCouncilMaster Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2005
    star 6
    For preservation perhaps? Well i don't know. It's supposed to be more 'high tech' and stuff.
  25. DarthWolvo23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2005
    star 4
    doesnt palps say i will soon have an apprentice younger than lord tyranus to grievous in ROTS after dooku has been killed?

    p.s dooku is the name used in tyranus' act as head of the separatists, just as sidious uses the name palps as part of his act

    read the visual dictionary for ROTS & all will become clear
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