* OFFICIAL THREAD * The Birth Of Darth Vader - When, Where, and Why

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Holocron_Collector, Oct 5, 2004.

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  1. Darth_Head Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2003
    star 3
    but he will still be Anakin until he dons the helmet

    Why would putting on a certain hat make him a Sith?

    Doesn't make sense.
  2. Fhityhoaesdo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 9, 2004
  3. Naberrie_SkyWalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 5
    I didnt say he wouldnt be dark or evil..just that he wont be called Vader until that point...Vader is "born" when Anakin "dies"..ie after the duel
  4. smackfu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 2
    Vader, in the Study, with the Candlestick.
  5. COLDLIGHT Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2004
    star 2
    What I am interested in discussing, or having flat-out answered for me, is what is the 'process' for becoming a Sith? This question is not relating to when/where/how Anakin turns to the dark side, or when in the film he becomes Vader, but rather a more generic postulation of when Sidious says: 'okay, this guy I want as my new Sith apprentice'... what happens next? Considering that Jedi, to become Jedi, go through years of rigorous induction and training, what do the Sith undergo, and more importantly, WILL WE SEE ANY OF IT IN THE FILM?
    Is there a Sith instruction manual? Is Anakin presented with his new robes and saber immediately? Is there an oath to take? An induction process? What are ground rules for being a Sith? How will Anakin find all these out? Etc. etc.
  6. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    Interesting post today by Carl Cunningham on this subject, as well as whether Anakin physically dies in RotS, Birth of Vader, etc. (from Chud.com):

    I (and others) know of at least one element of the "Birth of Vader" sequence that makes it clear that Vader is still technically Anakin.

    While he may physically die and be brought back to life and resuscitated in the suit, it's still Anakin.

    If I were a speculating person, I would surmise that Anakin's Jedi soul is what truly "dies" when he embraces the darkside. This, by the way, happens BEFORE the fateful duel. The whole dying physically and then being brought back to life as a half-cyborg can be taken as metaphorical. Especially when you see what the "Birth of Vader" scene is intercut or connected with.

    There... that's all you will get out of me on the issue.


    Interesting. Carl has, of course, seen RotS being filmed and is bound tightly by NDAs.

    Does Anakin physically die and is resurrected? And if so, he is still aware?

    His Jedi soul is what dies and before the duel? This certainly explains the young ghost Anakin.

    What is the BoV scene intercut with that makes it metaphorical? My guess: Luke's "metaphorical" birth from his dead mother, when no one was even aware of a second child in Padme!
  7. darth_java Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2004
    star 1
    Well, I'm new to the boards here but here's my theory. According to recent news regarding the trailer, people are saying that Vader's voice sounds too high to be JEJ, right? So, my theory is that Anikan becomes Vader before he gets the suit and here's the details:

    Remember in ROTJ, Obi-Wan tells Luke, "Your father was seduced by the dark side of the force. He ceased to be Anikan Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed." Notice he did NOT say, "Your father was dumped into a flaming sea of liquid hot magma when I chumped his ass in a lightsaber duel. When that happened your father became Vader."

    Anikan became Vader through seduction. Who's doing the seducing? Palpatine/Sidious.

    How does it go down? Here's my theory. Throughout the movie we're going to see Anikan become more and more dismayed with the Jedi, Obi-Wan in particular. He's going to have some fallout fight (not a duel, just a fight) with Obi-Wan and fly away to Palpatine. Palpatine will reveal himself to Anikan as being Sidious, and Sidious will explain to Anikan about the Sith and the power he can have. He'll be able to do everything he talked about in the previous movies. "I will even keep people from dying." Anikan will already be primed to make this move, Sidious will just be the catalyst that finally makes it happen. Then, cut to Mace Windu, who has already learned that Palpatine is a Sith. He's storming down the hallway to Sidious' office, and storms through the door. There he sees Sidious and someone else (Anikan) kneeling in front of Sidious, but Mace only sees him from the back. Mace says something like, "Sidious, I'm here to destroy you." And Sidious says, "Lord Vader." Anikan(now Vader): "Yes Master" Sidious: "Riiiiiise!!!" Anikan stands up and turns around. He's NOT in the vader suit yet, but he does somehow look more evil. Something in his eyes makes it abundantly clear that this is no longer our beloved Anikan. He's truly and clearly DARTH VADER now! Mace sees this and doesn't know how to react, but he charges at Sidious nonetheless. They duel, Vader joins in, and kills Windu, proving himself to his new master.

    It's not until later in the movie, when Obi Wan has been informed that Anikan has turned, that Obi Wan finally realises that he has to duel his old friend. They fight, Obi Wan wins, Vader falls into the lava but does not die!! How the hell can you fall into lava and not DIE!!! Ahhhh remember though, "I will even keep people from dying!!!" Sidious keeps to his promise to Anikin when he promises that the dark side will allow him to keep people from dying. But who does he use this power for? HIMSELF when he falls into the lava!

    He manages to survive the lava by using the dark side of the force. He is brought to the operating table we see in the spoiler pictures, Sidious fixes him up, black armor, breathing mask, and all, and we have the big bad Vader we all know and love.

    So the dialogue from the traler description is happening at a different point in the movie than we're led to believe. "Vader" is born before the suit is put on, JEJ will still be the voice when the mask is on, and everyone will be happy. But that's just my theory.
  8. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    Anakin IS NOT VADER UNTIL AFTER THE DUEL!

    Because Anakin cannot be completely lost until this point. Storytelling wise, it works so much better than having Anakin full out evil with no hope of coming back to the other side. When Anakin accepts his identity as "Vader", at the end of the movie, it is when he ultimately loses EVERYTHING, including himself. It just doesn't fit. Why would he embrace this persona of Vader when he still has his wife and his unborn child? He thinks he is doing these things to protect them, but ultimately he loses that because of what HE DOES, which is why he embraces a new identity as Vader.


    Also, it's a 2 hour slide to the darkside, not 30 minutes.
  9. ObiWan506 Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Aug 5, 2003
    star 7
    Here's the real question for ya ... why is he shown with "Sith" eyes in the Mustafar Conference Room. Surely he knows he's doing something evil for himself to sport those babies.
  10. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    Some have said that it was just put into the trailer and it won't be in the final movie....honestly I don't really know.

    But he doesn't have those same eyes when he is fighting Obi Wan.
  11. burrisjedimaster1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    When-After he kills Dooku and Mace.

    Where- What ever planet he happens to be on.

    Why-Fear-and anger.
  12. Larmo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2004
    star 3
    Why does Darth Vader sound nothing like Darth Vader?
  13. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    Anakin won't kill mace.
  14. Texas_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 1999
    star 3
    I keep telling you guys the final step for Anakin to become Darth Vader dark lord of the sith is when he helps kill Mace Windu!!!!

    Nothing will convince me otherwise until I see the movie. But I'm quite confident this act is what Rick McCallum was talking about when he said Mace played a HUGE part of Anakin's downfall.

    Killing sand people is 1 thing. Killing a jedi master that trained you & raised you is just evil!
  15. I_Worship_Sidious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2004
    star 2
    I think it would be neat to use the yellow-eyed Anakin for the movie also. For example, maybe Obi-Wan or Padme says something that strikes a nerve - the final straw that will completely enrage Anakin. He slowly turns around, reacts and attacks.
  16. burrisjedimaster1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 4
    It all goes back to TPM when young Anakin gives Mace a dirty look.
  17. Texas_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 1999
    star 3
    Some have said that it was just put into the trailer and it won't be in the final movie....honestly I don't really know.

    After thinking about it, I don't believe George Lucas would tease us like that. The shot of Anakin's eyes under the hood were soooooooooooooooooo damn cool!!!!! Why show us that then take it out? I believe his eyes will be yellow during the duel but the bits and pieces we saw of him during the duel weren't completed. Go back and look at the trailer the part where he's on top of Obi Wan looking down while choking him. Now imagine that shot with the yellow eyes looking down in menacing fashion!!!!! That would be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  18. forever_jedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 5
    Whether Anakin's Sith eyes are in the movie or not, the yellow eyes in the trailer are symbolic of the fact that Anakin is a Sith (deliberate resemblance to Maul) before the suit. That is what the trailer is saying. Honestly, after the Sith eyes, I am 105% sure.
  19. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    You know 3SA never ceases to amaze me. The people who post on here must be the stupidest people in all of the world.

    Anakin is not a Sith until his fall from grace after the duel. That is what the blue on blue represents. Also, we need to have some hope that Anakin can be saved. He cannot be 100% evil until the end of the duel, this is his final step. Up until Padme's death, we need to be able to rationalize (or Anakin needs to be able to rationalize) everything he has done to this point as being for the good of his family and the future of the Galaxy. But when he loses control, and accidently kills Padme` (even though he doesn't know he causes her death) that is the last straw. There has to be a moment in the duel when Anakin starts to question his own choices, where we have a glimmer of hope but right after that moment all hope is lost and Anakin's fate is sealed. That is what storytelling is about but you people are too ******* stupid to understand it. The greatest action is inaction. Anakin will not kill Mace, but watch him die and DO NOTHING. It is the contrast to ROTJ, where Anakin watches yet decides to do something instead of nothing. The scene has the most potential of all the scenes in ROTS to truly tie the SAGA together. It is really pathetic all of your little "fanboy" fantasies because it is such crap. George Lucas is a STORYTELLER and STAR WARS is about ANAKIN'S STRUGGLE WITH DARKNESS. His turn WILL NOT BE 30 MINUTES THEN HE'S ALL BADASS, it will take course over TWO HOURS and just because Anakin DOES EVIL THINGS it does not mean that he is COMPLETELY EVIL. HE DOES IT BECAUSE HE THINKS IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO, BUT IT TRANSFORMS INTO SOMETHING MORE. It is only AFTER the duel, AFTER PADME`S BETRAYAL and AFTER HIS DUEL WITH OBI WAN where ANAKIN is TRANSFORMED INTO DARTH VADER. Some of you will never understand this, but you know what? Oh well. YOu will reject this movie with dissapointment which is rather pathetic, but oh well.
  20. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    Killing a jedi master that trained you & raised you is just evil!

    Killing a Jedi Master, who is a Jedi, who you believe is EVIL...yeah. But Anakin doesn't kill Mace, so keep your fanboy dreams to yourself.
  21. DarthJayhawk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2004
    star 1
    James Earl Jones has stated that he will not be doing any work on ep3 until Feb 05....that voice on the trailer will not be the final version on the film.
  22. DarthJayhawk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2004
    star 1
    Anakin will become Vader BEFORE his duel with Obi-one. Watch the trailer....Sidious say"Lord Vader, rise" as he is wakeing up in his new armor. How would he know his Sith name if he didnt have it yet. Darth Solo Im afraid it is you who are mistaken!!
  23. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    I'm afraid you don't even know what context that dialogue is taken into. It could be from a DIFFERENT SCENE.

    Remember, we also find out the meaning behind the name "Vader" so maybe that's why Anakin responds to it in that manner, we just don't know. He may give Anakin his Sith name, then say "Lord Vader?" "Riiiiissssseeeee".

    OR Vader is knealing to the Emperor at the end of the movie and tells him to rise.

    God the stupidity.

    It is you who is gravely mistaken.
  24. BlackCladAsthmatic Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2004
    Easily the funniest line of text I have seen in this thread so far:

    no one is holding their breath for Vader

    :D That's up there with Anakin's line in the AotC "Padme Resists Horny Padawan While Wearing Leather Bustier" scene, or Kenobi's line to Anakin as they enter the bar, searching for Zam Wessel.
  25. Drac39 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2002
    star 6
    Who else is beginning to think that the Lord Vader Rise segment was shot just for the teaser?
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