* OFFICIAL THREAD * The Birth Of Darth Vader - When, Where, and Why

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Holocron_Collector, Oct 5, 2004.

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  1. IMTHEGENERAL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2004
    star 4
    This has probably been said before but just in case-

    reading the George Lucas biography it staes that lucas says that name darth vader was made up by 'death water and dark father'. the dark father part is well known but death water???? didnt know that. Hmmmmmm Lava=death water?
  2. SnakePlisken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2002
    star 4
    Humble pie time! :D

    [image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/SnakePlisken/mastersidious0av.jpg]
  3. Peter_Skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2004
    star 1
    Whoa DARTH VADER!!!!!!!! OMG I can't wait to see Vader.
  4. Dark_Lord_Medina Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2005
    A while back Star Wars insider did a story on Darth Vader and explained on how and why he wears his suit. It stated he was thrown into a lava pit by Obi-wan and then recovered by Paply. This was all in the Star Wars insider before the PT. The issue was released around the time the speical OT was in the movies. No kiddin about this issue i wouldve saved it if i known that new movies were coming out at the time. it was around 97 when i read this issue
  5. SnakePlisken Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 26, 2002
    star 4
    The legend of Vader fighting Kenobi over a molten volcano has been around for quite a long time.

    Rolling Stone: Why does Darth Vader breathe so heavily?

    George Lucas: I had wanted to do that and tie it in with the dialogue.

    RS: It was a nice touch, because it adds to the bogyman quality of the character.

    GL: Ben [Burtt] had a lot of work in that too. He did about 18 different kinds of breathing, through aqualungs and through tubes, trying to find the one that had the right sort of mechanical sound, and then decide whether it would be totally rhythmical and like an iron lung. That's the idea. It was a whole part of the plot that essentially got cut out. It may be in one of the sequels.

    RS: What's the story?

    GL: It's about Ben and Luke's father and Vader when they are young Jedi knights. But Vader kills Luke's father, then Ben and Vader have a confrontation, just like they have in "Star Wars", and Ben almost kills Vader. As a matter of fact, he falls into a volcanic pit and gets fried and is one destroyed being. That's why he has a breathing mask. It's like a walking iron lung. His face is all horrible inside. I was going to shoot a close-up of Vader where you could see the inside of his face, but then we said, no, no, it would destroy the mystique of the whole thing.

    -Rolling Stone Magazine - Aug. 25, 1977, pg. 40 "The Force behind George Lucas" by Paul Scanlon "In the realm of the Wars, George Lucas has approached all of the original film's principals, including Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, Peter Cushing, Alec Guinness, Dave Prowse, Peter Mayhew, Anthony Daniels and Kenny Baker. Noted SF author Leigh Brackett has been approached with the task of writing the screenplay for the big-budgeted sequel. One of the key elements in the second script may be the origin of the Dark Lord, Darth Vader.

    One version of his life being considered for the forthcoming production will reveal a young, handsome Darth turning rogue Jedi, killing Luke Skywalker's father and being pushed into a pool of molten lava by avenging angel Ben Kenobi. Darth is so badly scarred that he dons his black armor forever. It serves as a combination exoskeleton and walking iron lung. The second version portrays Darth as being, in reality, Luke Skywalker's father. After a psychological trauma, Luke's father succumbs to the darker nature of The Force and allows all that is good within him to die. And rising from the ashes of his soul is Darth, the arch-foe of all that is righteous. Whatever Vader's fate in the as-yet-embryonic script, the film began pre-production in London in January."

    - Future Magazine, April 1978 "You should not think of that machine as your father." It was the teacher speaking again. When I saw what had become of him, I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought ... your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever - he was Darth Vader, without a trace of Anakin Skywalker. Iredeemably dark. Scarred. Kept alive only by machinery and his own black will..."

    - Ben Kenobi in the Return of the Jedi novelization
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  6. DarthNimor Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2005
    i just want to know how someone lives after falling in lava in the first place ? thats what i want to see.
  7. _dArTh_SoLo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2002
    star 4
    know this whole "Vader before/after the suit" thing is somewhat contraversial, but I think many people here do not completely understand it. Sidious gives Anakin the title "Darth Vader" as his new Sith name, but that does not mean that Anakin has given up his identity as Anakin Skywalker. Technically, yes he is Vader before the suit by name, but name alone. The movie is about Anakin BECOMING Darth Vader, and that is a process which takes place throughout the entire movie. Everything Anakin does, everything that happens to him, contributes to him becoming Darth Vader. It is about how Anakin comes to denounce his identity as Anakin Skywalker, and becomes Darth Vader, which only happens after he loses to Obi-Wan and gets in the suit. It is then that Darth Vader becomes his IDENTITY, not just a name as it is when he first becomes a Sith.

    I mean, do people go around saying that Darth Tyranus is not Count Dooku? That is ridiculous, no. Anakin takes the title Vader as his Sith name, but that does not mean he is full blown Vader because he isn't, he is still 'Anakin Skywalker'. When he loses his humanity, becomes more machine than man; that is when he embraces the persona of Vader and denounces Anakin Skywalker, after he learns that HE was responsible for the death of his darling wife.

    This is when his transformation is complete.
  8. Novus_Ordo_Seclorum Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Interesting. I always figured Anakin died of a broken spirit, whilst Padme died of a broken heart.
  9. JangoFunk Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    I've heard that Anakin merely falls on Volcanic ash and only his stumps really get a breif dip in lava, helping cartarize his otherwise mortal wounds without the aid of some other mechanical device available to him. Obi does not kill him, due to the Jedi code, but also does not help him. Palpy soon comes to salvage Anakin, sans limbs. This could all be bogus,though.
  10. war_monger Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2003
    star 5
    [image=http://img162.exs.cx/img162/9306/117ns.jpg]

    [image=http://darkestspiral.greentinted.com/IMAGES/blog/vader.gif]


    Well, which is it? Arms up or down? :confused:


    I suppose they could be cuffed to a lever or something so they can change positions... eh, I got nothin.
  11. Kernl Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2005
    I mean, do people go around saying that Darth Tyranus is not Count Dooku? That is ridiculous, no. Anakin takes the title Vader as his Sith name, but that does not mean he is full blown Vader because he isn't, he is still 'Anakin Skywalker'. When he loses his humanity, becomes more machine than man; that is when he embraces the persona of Vader and denounces Anakin Skywalker, after he learns that HE was responsible for the death of his darling wife.

    I've been an on and off lurker here but something is bugging me after reading the novelization and this kinda touches on it. If it's been addressed elsewhere, my apologies; just point me in the right direction, please.

    Palpatine clearly intended to let the galaxy know that the great Anakin Skywalker was his enforcer. When Anakin first shows up on Mustafar to take out the heads of the Separtists, the reaction is "You're Anakin Skywalker!"

    I imagine Palpatine would have sold the story as, "All of the Jedi were evil, except Skywalker, who discovered the truth. Anakin the great hero of the Republic, serves us today, blah blah blah" using the legend of Skywalker to further legitimize his Empire. So everyone would have known what Anakin was up to.

    Anakin takes a lava bath, ends up in an iron lung, decides the name Anakin Skywalker has no meaning for him any more. But why doesnt Palpatine want to exploit it the same way? Why make Vader look so evil? Why not add to the Skywalker legend -- look what the great Anakin gave up to save all of us?

    It's a game of revisionist history by Palpatine -- he's in a position to control history because he can tell the story any way he wants and people will accept it -- particularly because there are very few left who can say anything otherwise.

    But for whatever reason, Palpatine changes his mind and doesn't leverage the Skywalker legend. I guess the masses are fed the story that Skywalker was as corrupt as the rest of the Jedi and Darth Vader saved everyone from the evil Jedi.

    Why the change of heart by Palpatine? Did he just do it to appease his apprentice? Vader said I don't want to be Anakin Skywalker any more and Palpatine just said OK, giving up a great propoganda tool?

    Obviously, it has to be done to make the story work for Lucas -- if Anakin Skywalker is either the right hand man of the Emperor or if his legend still lives on as a hero in any way, even a young farm boy on a desert planet on the Outer Rim is going to wonder about having the same last name as this guy.

    Unless, of course, you're going to tell me that a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, the name "Skywalker" was as common as "Smith."
  12. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Just a thought, I just finished the novel and i found it interesting that Anakin tries to DESTROY Sideous when he uses the force to tear the room apart.
    in the book it say's "And you rage and scream and reach through the force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you ....and in the end you can not touch the shadow,in the end you do not even want to......in the end the Shadow is all you have left".
    Clearly the Shadow is Sideous, the book refers to him as the shadow throughout the book.So when Vader realizes that Padme is dead , and he is responsible , the new cyborg\cripple rages out at Sideous but like Lucas said , he sold his soul to the devil.
    And that is all he has Left!.........Until he realizes he has a son!
  13. bry-maul Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2005
    star 1
  14. Darth_Sesshu Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2005
    star 1
    Darth Vader> Menace to Society or Social Misfit? You be the judge.
  15. SunDevil Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2005
    As Ben said:
    Darth Vader THE SITH:

    Where: Coruscant, Palpatine's Office

    When: After the death of Mace, Anakin pledges his loyalty to Palpatine.

    Why: Palpatine/Sidious says to Anakin: "Henceforth you shall be known as . . . Darth . . . Vader". Shortly after that is cut away to Yoda who, based on his reaction, has either just felt a tremor in the force, or the food on Kashyyk doesn't agree with him.

  16. sidious1 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 6


    Just a qick question.

    Does anyone think the transformation into the Final Vader was too quick. Would they have not put him on a ventilator and tended his wounds until they healed, THEN put him in the Vader suit!?

    Thoughts?

    "I will deal with this Jedi slime myself!"
  17. jedi_master_ousley Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 8
    I thought it worked out just fine.

    Up for current discussion.
  18. DarthNater Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2004
    star 2
    Yes it was one of my favorite scenes in the movie. The dark side finally got its own movie.
  19. -Courtney- Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2005
    star 5
    How much of Vader do you think was artificial?
  20. -Courtney- Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2005
    star 5
    I agree, I started a thread about that not long ago but it was locked & I was directed here. But I was told there that it was Sidious that ordered him to be kept alive but to not heal him completely because he did not want Vader to be as strong as he was or something like that. I do not really buy it, I think it is because this film was made by people who have no medical knowledge what so ever or those droids are evil, lol. Actually I have come to the conclusion that because the scene jumped between Padme & Anakin there are things that we missed & it is possible that his operation lasted maybe hours after Padme died. Also why did they not use bacta?
  21. 1701 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2003
    star 1
    I think the final act that sealed Anakin's fate was his attempt to kill Obi-Wan. That was the final betrayal imo.
  22. legion_of_me Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 6, 2005
    star 1
    Anakin didn't kill Mace, Sidious did.


  23. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Why did the droids give Anakin enormous shins? Wouldn't they want him to be a bit more in proportion?
  24. -Courtney- Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2005
    star 5
    According to the official visual guide, the surgery took place over several days...So I guess that answers my own question.
    -----
    I think they made him so out of proportion to explain why Darth Vader is so much taller than Anakin.
  25. MR-BADMAN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4

    Well not to blow my own freakin trumpet, but I posted this months ago......and I got so much grief.

    I was right, tell everybody, I was right.
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