*Official Thread* The Film Music Critics Society: Now Discussing: Braveheart

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Darth-Lutgerous, Sep 2, 2005.

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  1. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    Fantastic, TA. I never knew Zimmer scores could be analyzed with so much depth. It appears I have much to learn.
  2. TenorAprentice Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    yeah, that's what happens when you spend about 8 months with one score and a DVD... though it was one of the most enjoyable projects I have done.

    TA
  3. QUI-DON-JINN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 1
    I was wrong in a previous post about The Rock being the only Zimmer score I own. I have Gladiator as well, although I'm not sure why. I gave it a good listen again last night and was amazed again at how similar to The Rock it is. There are good portions, including parts of "To Zucchabar," "The Might of Rome," and "Strength and Honor," but mostly it is too derivative of "The Rock" to continue to be a good listening experience outside of the film for me. Inside the film, it works extremely well.

    I give this score two out of five silvery masks.
  4. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    I don't love Gladiator all that much. I listen to it every so often. I enjoy how the tracks flow into each other so there're rarely breaks in the music. A lot of it's generally enjoyable and catchy. But it is very derivative, and I don't like the synthesized nature of so much of it. I enjoy the orchestral arrangements of the music I've heard far more than the original presentation. I also don't care much for "Now We Are Free," though I seem to be in the minority there. I guess I'd give it ****.
  5. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    Was The Planets out of copyright when Zimmer made this one?
  6. quizkid82 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 13, 2005
    It works very well in the context of the film, and you don't "notice" it during the movie at all, which is always my first criteria (film score should not be a distraction).


    This is hogwash. If you don't "notice" the music at all while watching the film, then how is the music good? Great film music should be noticed. Heck, it should sometimes even serve as another character -- which is exactly why "Gladiator" is one of my favorite scores. Lisa Gerrard's voice acts as Maximus' wife calling to him from the grave. It's magnificent. Is Zimmer ripping off Holst and everything else? Yes, but it works for the film, which is really all that matters.

    You're posting on a "SW" board, and you're saying you don't want to "notice" the music in a movie? If you take the music out of a "SW" movie, you have no movie. The music is the movie. GL always said he was, at heart, making silent films scored to music.
  7. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Bernard Herrmann, one of the most respected and critically acclaimed film scorers of all time, disagreed with you. How often did he write a theme that you'd walk out of the theatre humming? He didn't just musically wallpaper the movie; he wrote music that complemented the movie without being a separate, intrusive element.
  8. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Gladiator is a fair score, don't get me wrong, but I don't think that it's one of Zimmer's best. I really like the main theme and the theme with the wheat blowing, but otherwise I think there isn't anything special about it and is a mess. The underscore is particularly unimpressive, which could be because of three different people working on the score each have different styles. At some parts the electronics are overbearing and leaves an overall rough impression on the listener. I rate this score ***.
  9. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    hey... umm... will this go on sometime?

    if so, a suggestion: Finding Neverland.
  10. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    Yeah, I'd like to see this continue also.
  11. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Sorry I didn't update this earlier, but I've had major problems with my computer. It really stinks not being able to go on the internet and I'm glad that people are still interested in rating soundtracks.
    Here are the soundtracks we've discussed so far and their average ratings (out of *****):


    Medicine Man (Goldsmith) ****

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) ****

    Shakespeare in Love (Warbeck) **** 1/2

    Princess Mononoke (Hisaishi) **** 1/2

    Dragonheart (Edelman) **** 1/2

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) ****

    Titanic (Horner) ***

    The Rock (Glennie-Smith, Zimmer, Gregson-Williams) ***

    Gladiator (Zimmer, Gerrard, Badelt) ****



    The next soundtrack we will discuss is Finding Neverland written by Jan A. P. Kaczmarek. Finding Neverland tells the story of author J.M. Barrie's friendship with a family he met in the park, which inspired him to write the play Peter Pan. The music of this movie affectionately captures the adventurous but sad tone of the movie as Sylvia, the mother, grows weaker and Barrie's relationship with her boys grows stronger. Finding Neverland is a great score and won the Oscar for Best Original Score in 2004.


    If you have never heard this soundtrack before, check out clips on amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002TQZTE/qid%3D1135868342/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-7991207-5994504


    * If this is your first time here or you missed the last discussions, please feel free to rate the previous scores as well. Just specify which scores you are rating.

  12. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    After Hook, 2003's Peter Pan movie and Finding Neverland I wondered:
    How comes all (big) Neverland movies have good music? :D

    I was one of the few who rooted for Kaczmarek during this years' (otherwise very boring) Academy Awards, despite John Williams' wonderful nomination. I think the Oscar (even though these things lost a lot of meaning) was greatly deserved. As your little paragraph said, it captures the adventurous and sad tone of the movie, and also the magical moments Barrie dreams up in this otherwise very ordinary world and of course the playful moments that are somewhere inbetween.
    It's also a good thing that the music, imo, never goes overboards with the sadness - it's enough that the movie does it (in a good way, though). Everything else would have been too much. Too heavy.
    Most of it is also a style of music I generally like anyway (sometimes sweeping cues, sometimes simple melodies, and even a children's choir now and again (well, duh, it's about Barrie)).
    I think I bought the CD before I saw the movie in theaters :confused:

    here we go again: 5 Stars
  13. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    When I was watching this year's Oscars, Jan A. P. Kaczmarek's score was the only one that I hadn't heard. After it won, I rented Finding Neverland and really enjoyed the movie, but outside of one or two scenes, the music didn't really affect me. I thought the Oscar had been given to the wrong composer, but after hearing the music on the soundtrack, I found it very enjoyable. The piano music is amazing, especially the solo pieces. The music is playful when it needs to be such as in the pirate scene, or sorrowful. After listening to it on cd, I went back to the movie and the music played a whole new role. It was great. 4.5 stars from me.
  14. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    When I watched last year's Oscars, I was really hoping John Williams would win for Prisoner of Azkaban, but that was before I saw Finding Neverland and heard the music. Now I can say the win was well-deserved because the music is very enjoyable and can go right to the heart, especially in the movie. It allows you to feel each emotion from Barrie playing with the boys and expanding their imaginations to the sad ending, which makes it an exceptional score. ****
  15. Esperanza_Nueva Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 23, 2003
    star 6
    I actually thought the Oscar should have gone to John Debney for his Passion of the Christ score, but Finding Neverland's score came in a close second for me. Finding Neverland's score is beautiful and magical and works perfectly with the tone of the movie. I love the pieces on the soundtrack that are strictly piano - absolutely gorgeous. So yeah, I give it 5 stars.
  16. stradman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2002
    star 3
    I must admit that when I saw the movie, I was not very impressed with the music. I thought the movie was good, but I cannot say that I can even remember the music.
  17. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Here is our Master List of Soundtracks and their average ratings(out of *****):


    Medicine Man (Goldsmith) ****

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) ****

    Shakespeare in Love (Warbeck) **** 1/2

    Princess Mononoke (Hisaishi) **** 1/2

    Dragonheart (Edelman) **** 1/2

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) ****

    Titanic (Horner) ***

    The Rock (Glennie-Smith, Zimmer, Gregson-Williams) ***

    Gladiator (Zimmer, Gerrard, Badelt) ****

    Finding Neverland (Kaczmarek) **** 1/2


    The next soundtrack we will discuss is Entrapment by Christopher Young. The movie Entrapment tells the story of an insurance agent who volunteers to go after a thief when a priceless painting is stolen from the client her company insured. Gin (Catherine Zeta-Jones) doesn't know what she's gotten herself into as she meets the thief, Mac (Sean Connery), and they enter a game of who's playing whom. Fatal attraction and distrust could tear them apart as they pepare to steal a beautiful Chinese mask and some eight odd billion dollars. The music captures their love, successes, and failures as the two progress closer and closer to the end, and the truth.


    If you have never heard this soundtrack before, check out clips on amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000DTOG/qid=1137533660/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-5187574-9124059?s=music&v=glance&n=5174

    Review on Filmtracks: http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/entrapment.html


    * If this is your first time here or you missed the last discussions, please feel free to rate the previous scores as well. Just specify which scores you are rating.
  18. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    Could we do Far and Away next?
  19. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Okay. I was thinking of a John Williams score to use next. Thanks.


    But, has anyone heard the score to Entrapment? If not, I'll update on Sunday.
  20. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Entrapment is one my favorite movie scores because I feel that it captures the mystery, tension, suspense, action, and love of the movie. No, it isn't close to the masterpieces that John Williams has crafted in his lucrative career, but it is an enjoyable listen. The score is sort of like The Rock's because it has that action flair, but also has its soft and tender moments. *** 1/2
  21. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Here is our Master List of Soundtracks and their average ratings (out of *****):


    Medicine Man (Goldsmith) ****

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) ****

    Shakespeare in Love (Warbeck) **** 1/2

    Princess Mononoke (Hisaishi) **** 1/2

    Dragonheart (Edelman) **** 1/2

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) ****

    Titanic (Horner) ***

    The Rock (Glennie-Smith, Zimmer, Gregson-Williams) ***

    Gladiator (Zimmer, Gerrard, Badelt) ****

    Finding Neverland (Kaczmarek) **** 1/2

    Entrapment (Young) *** 1/2


    The next soundtrack we will discuss is Far and Away by John Williams. The movie is a story about a man and a woman who leave Ireland and dream of owning land in Oklahoma in 1893. They soon face numerous hardships while trying to make a living. The score captures their Irish heritage and the score is very upbeat and light-hearted. It also proves that John Williams has a great range and can do a score for any movie, and is full of themes that add to the movie's genuine ethnicity. Thanks to Indian_Fett for the recommendation.


    If you have never heard this soundtrack before, check out clips on amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002OL9/qid=1137953664/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-5187574-9124059?s=music&v=glance&n=5174

    Review on Filmtracks: http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/far_away.html


    * If this is your first time here or you missed the last discussions, please feel free to rate the previous scores as well. Just specify which scores you are rating.

  22. Zarm_Rkeeg Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 3
    While I don't have much to say about the score technicaly, I love this soundtrack- especially the final track (before the end credits), which exquisitely captures the mood from so many different angles... and one of the few scores I've heard that makes the ending truly sound like a new beginning for it's characters.
    The entire score is like that, filled with energy and emotion, and captures the Irish feel very well!

    I'd rate this score *****!

    (Oh, and as for previous scores I'd missed...

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****1/2

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) *****

    Dragonheart (Edelman) *****

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) *****

    Titanic (Horner) **** )
  23. Darth_Vader-Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2002
    star 3
    I just listened to this in my car the other day. I had forgotten how good it is. Williams perfectly captures the Irish feel from get go, and the Land Race is a great piece of fun and adventure. ****
  24. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    ****

    I love the Fighting Donnelys, the Land Race, End Credits, and my personal favorite Blowing Off Steam.

    As many have noted before, Williams has a wide range and captures the Irish sound perfectly.
  25. QUI-DON-JINN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 1
    I like this score as well. Williams' use of the Irish and Celtic musical ideas really helped link the "old country" action with the "new country" action. "The Fighting Donellys" is a fun track and I really like "The Land Race."

    *** 1/2
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