*Official Thread* The Film Music Critics Society: Now Discussing: Braveheart

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Darth-Lutgerous, Sep 2, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    I can't believe more people haven't heard this score. It is one of my favorites because of its unique and emotional sound. Goldsmith, like many of his other scores, brilliantly captures the mood of the movie and the love between the main characters, and does a fantastic job with the jazz, electronics, and orchestrations. I highly recommend it and encourage everyone to check it out, even if it means listening to the short clips on Amazon. *****
  2. Indiana_Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2004
    star 4
    A lot of people here like Star Wars music.:rolleyes:

    I haven't heard this score, but I think you should do some scores like The Hunt for Red October and Independence Day.
  3. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Thanks, I was planning to update soon and wasn't sure what to pick. I'll do Hunt for Red October.
  4. shwanzi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 3
    WHat a coincidence... I was just listening to this score a couple of days ago!

    Some strange sounding synthesized elements aside, I'd say that this score is pretty damned good! It's a lot better than the stuff James Horner composed for the next two sequels (I'm not a big post-Aliens James Horner fan), and it's very energetic and rousing, especially in the case of "Kaboom!". The Russian chorus that was added to certain tracks I thought was a masterstroke ("Hymm to Red October"). An overall solid score that is completely unlike most of his other work (Starship Troopers, Robocop, Conan the Barbarian, Red Dawn, etc. etc.) and it's a welcome addition to my collection.
  5. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    [image=http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000002O7C.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg]

    The next soundtrack we will discuss is The Hunt for Red October by Basil Poledouris, which is coincidentally, another Cold War film. The score has a deep Russian accent and brilliantly captures the plot of the film. The Red October is a new Soviet Submarine and when the Americans are given photographs of it, they are extremely curious to find out why is it so special. Jack Ryan, a CIA analyst, consults with a friend, who deduces that it's equipped with a new engine that can make it run virtually silent and with such a device, the Russians can position themselves on the outskirts of any coastal city and launch their missles without any warning. Marko Ramius, the sub's captain, however, has his own plans and deviates from his Soviet assignment. Everyone assumes that Ramius has turned rogue, but Ryan who once did research on the captain and assumes that he might be trying to defect. While everyone dismisses him, the National Security Adviser tells Ryan to go out there and find out for sure if he is right cause once Ramius is in position to fire his missiles. Ryan reluctantly goes and now faces the danger of Ramius supporting the Soviets and a secret spy onboard the Red October. The score is well done on Poledouris' part and always is a great listen both in and out of the film.


    Tracks:
    ? 1. Hymn to Red October (Main Titles) (5:04)
    ? 2. Nuclear Scam (7:17)
    ? 3. Putin's Demise (0:54)
    ? 4. Course Two-Five-Zero (0:21) --heard repeatedly in film
    ? 5. Ancestral Aid (2:10)
    ? 6. Chopper (2:52)
    ? 7. Two Wives (2:41) --not used in film
    ? 8. Red Route I (3:28)
    ? 9. Plane Crash (1:46)
    ? 10. Kaboom!!! (3:15)


    If you have never heard this soundtrack before, check out clips on amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002O7C/ref=sr_11_1/002-7269948-2266455?%5Fencoding=UTF8


    Review on Filmtracks: http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/red_october.html


    Here is our Master List of Soundtracks and their average ratings (out of *****):


    Dragonheart (Edelman) ****

    Entrapment (Young) *** 1/2

    Far and Away (Williams) ****

    Finding Neverland (Kaczmarek) **** 1/2

    Gladiator (Zimmer, Gerrard, Badelt) ****

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) ****

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) ****

    Medicine Man (Goldsmith) ****

    The Mummy Returns (Silvestri) ****

    The Phantom of the Opera (Weber) Original Cast Recording: *****
    Movie Soundtrack: *** 1/2

    Princess Mononoke (Hisaishi) **** 1/2

    The Rock (Glennie-Smith, Zimmer, Gregson-Williams) ***

    The Russia House (Goldsmith) *****

    Shakespeare in Love (Warbeck) **** 1/2

    Spirited Away (Hisaishi) ****

    Titanic (Horner) ***


    * If this is your first time here or you missed the last discussions, please feel free to rate the previous scores as well. Just specify which scores you are rating.

    * Please list any future suggestions of scores to discuss if you have any. />
  6. Jedi-Washington Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 4
    This is the first time I've come in here, but it looks like an interesting topic, so:

    It's been a while since I've watched this movie, but I must say that Basil Poledouris has his moments, and this is one of them. Free Willie is another one of his moments in my opinion, even if the main theme is a bit overused, it is a good peice of work.

    Anyway, The only thing I can think that I don't like about this score is the inclusion of the synthisized elements. I don't really like mixing that with the Orchestral pallett. Just something my ear doesn't like much. None the less, this score, and especially "Hymn to Red October." The use of chorus is usually something that can be over used and gets old fast, but the beginning of the Hymn is made with the choir singing as their own instrument as opposed to a solo. The march that comes later is maliciously ominous with the low strings constantly stroking. Wonderful mixing of colors. I remember hearing it for the first time on a compilation by The Cincinnati Pops Orchestra with Erich Kunzel and the May Festival Choir. It was very appealing to me for reasons I can't even figure out. If anything, the orchestrator for Basil deserves a big pat on the back for this score.

    This score gets a 4/5 from me.

    ~JW
  7. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
  8. outrider462004 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2004
    star 4
    This is my first time doing this. I love this musio. When you hear the first track, you are in awe. The Russian really helps bring the score out. For those who who would like a translation, go to here. The text is at the bottom of the page. Overall, I agree it gets a 4/5
  9. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    I enjoyed the music in The Hunt for Red October when I watched it last night. The Hymn to Red October that is heard throughout the movie is a great, as well as some other parts in the score (such as Ryan going into the bowels of the Red October to kill the KGB spy). Overall, I'll also give it ****.

    Expect an update soon. I'll take any suggestions, otherwise I'll probably go with a score by a composer who we haven't discussed yet that won the Oscar for Best Score for 2000.
  10. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    The score album is very front-loaded. "Hymn to Red October" and "Nuclear Scam" are fantastic, and together comprise nearly half of the score, but the rest of it, while pretty good, rarely interests me enough to listen to it all the way through. I don't dislike it, but it doesn't hold my attention like the first couple tracks do. Even so, I'd give the score *** or **** out of 5 stars.
  11. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    [image=http://g-images.amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/53/c2/b0bcd250fca0667470134010._AA240_.L.jpg]


    The next soundtrack we will discuss is Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon by Tan Dun, and featuring Yo-Yo Ma on cello and singer CoCo Lee. Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon tells the story of the disappearance of a magical jade sword that spurs a breathtaking quest for the missing treasure. Li Mu Bai is embittered by the loss of his jade sword, and his unrequited pursuit of Yu is further complicated by the mysterious intrusion of an assassin. The identity of the assassin is gradually unveiled as another poignant tale of love begins to unravel with that of Li and Yu against the backdrop of Western China's magnificent landscape. Winner of the Academy Award for Best Score in 2000, Dun's music score greatly complements the stunning film, especially the beautiful scenery and epic swordfighting, the doomed romance between Li and Yu, and what the tumultuous life of the mysterious assassin, Jiao.


    Tracks:
    ? 1. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (3:24)
    ? 2. The Eternal Vow (3:01)
    ? 3. A Wedding Interrupted (2:16)
    ? 4. Night Flight (3:10)
    ? 5. Silk Road (3:08)
    ? 6. To the South (2:21)
    ? 7. Through the Bamboo Forest (4:23)
    ? 8. The Encounter (2:40)
    ? 9. Desert Capriccio (4:33)
    ? 10. In the Old Temple (3:46)
    ? 11. Yearning of the Sword (3:34)
    ? 12. Sorrow (4:02)
    ? 13. Farewell (2:25)
    ? 14. A Love Before Time (English) (3:45)
    ? 15. A Love Before Time (Mandarin) (3:38)


    If you have never heard this soundtrack before, check out clips on amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002JC6YC/qid=1146340536/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/102-3143392-8883364?n=5174


    Review on Filmtracks: http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/crouching_tiger.html




    Here is our Master List of Soundtracks and their average ratings (out of *****):


    Dragonheart (Edelman) ****

    Entrapment (Young) *** 1/2

    Far and Away (Williams) ****

    Finding Neverland (Kaczmarek) **** 1/2

    Gladiator (Zimmer, Gerrard, Badelt) ****

    The Hunt for Red October (Poledouris) ****

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) ****

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) ****

    Medicine Man (Goldsmith) ****

    The Mummy Returns (Silvestri) ****

    The Phantom of the Opera (Weber) Original Cast Recording: *****
    Movie Soundtrack: *** 1/2

    Princess Mononoke (Hisaishi) **** 1/2

    The Rock (Glennie-Smith, Zimmer, Gregson-Williams) ***

    The Russia House (Goldsmith) *****

    Shakespeare in Love (Warbeck) **** 1/2

    Spirited Away (Hisaishi) ****

    Titanic (Horner) ***


    * If this is your first time here or you missed the last discussions, please feel free to rate the previous scores as well. Just specify which scores you are rating.

    * Please list any future suggestions of scores to discuss if you have any. />
  12. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    I just noticed I didn't say anything in the Oscar thread about CTHD. I thought it was a deserved win. Perfect music for that film. Very beautiful melodies. The end is very emotional (even though I still don't quite get why she jumped :p). Half a point off, though, because I'm not the biggest fan of uh percussions (?).


    ****1/2
  13. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon is a good score by Tan Dun. It has a great main theme, and is full of loud percussions and sweeping swing solos suitable to the setting of the movie. *** 1/2
  14. QUI-DON-JINN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 1
    I very much like CTHD and has been a good score for me to get into Asian-sounding scores. It's interesting to compare CTHD and Memoirs of a Geisha.

    My favorite track from CTHD is probably Night Fight, so much so that I put it on a compilation of tracks that have "attitude" to them. I'll have to go back, now, and listen to the rest more carefully, though.

    3.5 out of 5 tea cups
  15. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    [image=http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000002OR4.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg]


    The next soundtrack we will discuss is Schindler's List by John Williams. Often considered Williams' masterpiece, Schindler's List features Itzhak Perlman on violin and happened to be released the same year he composed another fantastic score, Jurassic Park. Schindler's List is the story of a man named Oskar Schindler who at first is a womanizer and war profiteer whose goal is only to take advantage of the surplus of Jews in the Krakhow ghetto. As the story progresses, Schindler realizes how badly the Jews are being treated and buys as many as he can to save them from being sent to Auschwitz. By the time the war has ended, 1,100 Jews had been saved and Schindler has changed into a caring, thoughtful person. The movie is the triumph of one man who made a difference, and the drama of those who survived one of the darkest chapters in human history because of what he did. Yet another collaboration between Spielberg and Williams, the music captures the darkness of the Holocaust and is haunting and sad at the same time. It is definitely one Williams' best.


    Tracks:
    ? 1. Theme from Schindler's List (4:14)
    ? 2. Jewish Town (Krakow Ghetto - Winter '41) (4:38)
    ? 3. Immolation (With Our Lives, We Give Life) (4:43)
    ? 4. Rememberances (4:19)
    ? 5. Schindler's Workforce (10:36)
    ? 6. OYF'N Pripetshok and Nacht Aktion (3:51)
    ? 7. I Could Have Done More (5:52)
    ? 8. Auschwitz-Birkenau (3:41)
    ? 9. Stolen Memories (4:17)
    ? 10. Making the List (5:06)
    ? 11. Give Me Your Names (4:56)
    ? 12. Yeroushalaim Chel Zahav (Jerusalem of Gold) (2:14)
    ? 13. Rememberances (with Itzhak Perlman) (5:16)
    ? 14. Theme from Schindler's List (Reprise) (3:57)


    If you have never heard this soundtrack before, check out clips on amazon:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000002OR4/qid=1149463634/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-7203237-1596732?s=music&v=glance&n=5174


    Review on Filmtracks: http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/schindler.html





    Here is our Master List of Soundtracks and their average ratings (out of *****):


    Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (Dun) ****

    Dragonheart (Edelman) ****

    Entrapment (Young) *** 1/2

    Far and Away (Williams) ****

    Finding Neverland (Kaczmarek) **** 1/2

    Gladiator (Zimmer, Gerrard, Badelt) ****

    The Hunt for Red October (Poledouris) ****

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) ****

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) ****

    Medicine Man (Goldsmith) ****

    The Mummy Returns (Silvestri) ****

    The Phantom of the Opera (Weber) Original Cast Recording: *****
    Movie Soundtrack: *** 1/2

    Princess Mononoke (Hisaishi) **** 1/2

    The Rock (Glennie-Smith, Zimmer, Gregson-Williams) ***

    The Russia House (Goldsmith) *****

    Shakespeare in Love (Warbeck) **** 1/2

    Spirited Away (Hisaishi) ****

    Titanic (Horner) ***


    * If this is your first time here or you missed the last discussions, please feel free to rate the previous scores as well. Just specify which scores you are rating.


    * Please list any future suggestions of scores to discuss if you have any. />
  16. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    When Spielberg showed Williams an early cut of the film, Williams said "I can't score this film. You need a great composer to score this film". Spielberg replied: "I know - but they're all dead".

    It's an incredibly moving score. The main theme is much more bittersweet than sad, a move than must have taken some guts to do. One the best.

    **** out of *****
  17. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    Schindler's List is one of Williams' most unique and chilling scores. The music hauntingly accents the magnitude of the events in the movie and helps make the movie have a lasting impact on the viewer. Without the violin solos and subtle themes, I don't think Schindler's List would have been as great as it was. It is another great score on Williams' part and exemplifies his range as a composer. *****
  18. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Bittersweet is the wrong word, I think. I believe the right word to describe Williams' Schindler's List score is poignant. This score is an utter masterpiece. It was the first time I was blatent and boldly taken somewhere drastically different than Williams' usual adventure style scores. Very few places in this music can one hear anything resembling Williams. The warmth of the analog recording, the sound of the music hall in Boston, they create a sound that is light years away from his other 1993 score, Jurassic Park. A sound that fits the emotional tone of the film. The two main melodies are beautiful, powerful and memorable. So many people say "oh that score must be sad" but I cannot say that. The music is certainly serious, but it is also subtlely uplifting. Also, the Slavic influence in the music is wonderfully used by Williams. He seems to be borrowing a little from Dvôrak's Hungarian Dances and adapting the style to the more serious and sombre mood of Schindler's List. I consider this to be one of Williams most important and greatest scores.

    ***** out of *****.
  19. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    I give it 5/5 stars simply for the fact that it perfectly accomplishes the goal of a film score - to mesh with the pictures on the screen and "color" the emotional tone of the film.
  20. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    not giving it 5/5 borders on a crime. It is different and while it's "subtly uplifting" it carries enough melancholy in it to fit the movie - and be interesting music on its own.


    I need to see that movie sometime again. It's been ages...
  21. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    It's a difficult movie to watch. You need to be emotionally involved. It's not like a Star Wars film that I can put on and then maybe do some other distracting things (like fall asleep).

    I own the dvd, but I've only watched it once. I saw it in the theater in 1993 when it came out, and probably two times in between. It's very powerful.
  22. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    ****1/2

    It "could have done more." I find that the two main themes are too oft used and that the musical palette is a little small. There's also a section of "Making the List" in which Williams seems to suddenly revert to his usual self, and while it sounds cool, it doesn't mesh well.
  23. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    [image=http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000004286.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1115832743_.jpg] [image=http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000041NZ.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1115754667_.jpg]


    The next soundtrack we will discuss is James Horner's Braveheart. Braveheart is the story of William Wallace and how he defies English rule in order to fight for a free Scotland. Horner's score captures the rich Scottish nationalism in the movie and the emotions that Wallace experiences as he fights England. Along his journey, William faces the deaths of many who are close to him, including his father, son, close friends, and wife, and must ultimately face death as a result of his actions. Braveheart contains arguably Horner's best romantic themes as seen in Tracks 2-4, 11, and 16, but on the down side, Horner started a trend of "self rip-offs" from his previous scores with Braveheart.


    Braveheart Tracks:
    ? 1. Main Title (2:51)
    ? 2. A Gift of a Thistle (1:37)
    ? 3. Wallace Courts Murron (4:25)
    ? 4. The Secret Wedding (6:33)
    ? 5. Attack on Murron (3:00)
    ? 6. Revenge (6:23)
    ? 7. Murron's Burial (2:13)
    ? 8. Making Plans/Gathering the Clans (2:05)
    ? 9. "Sons of Scotland" (6:19)
    ? 10. The Battle of Stirling (6:07)
    ? 11. For the Love of a Princess (4:07)
    ? 12. Falkirk (4:04)
    ? 13. Betrayal & Desolation (7:48)
    ? 14. Mornay's Dream (1:18)
    ? 15. The Legend Spreads (1:09)
    ? 16. The Princess Pleads for Wallace's Life (3:38)
    ? 17. "Freedom"/The Execution/Bannockburn (7:24)
    ? 18. End Credits (7:12)


    More Music from Braveheart Tracks:
    ? 1. Prologue/"I Shall Tell You of Williams..." (dialogue - Robert the Bruce) (3:35)
    ? 2. Outlawed Tunes on Outlawed Pipes (2:03)
    ? 3. The Royal Wedding (dialogue - Robert the Bruce) (2:12)
    ? 4. "The Trouble with Scotland" (dialogue - King Edward the Longshanks) (0:40)
    ? 5. Scottish Wedding Music (1:14)
    ? 6. Prima Noctes (1:46)
    ? 7. The Proposal (dialogue - Wallace and Murron) (1:35)
    ? 8. "Scotland is Free!" (dialogue - Wallace) (0:17)
    ? 9. Point of War/JonnyCope/Up in the Morning Early (traditional) (2:59)
    ? 10. Conversing with the Almighty (dialogue - various) (1:20)
    ? 11. The Road to the Isles/Glendaural Highlanders/The Old Rustic Bridge by the Mill (traditional) (3:52)
    ? 12. "Sons of Scotland!" (dialogue - Wallace) (12:09)
    ? 13. Vision of Murron (1:45)
    ? 14. "Unite the Clans!" (dialogue - Wallace) (0:23)
    ? 15. The Legend Spreads (dialogue - Storytellers) (1:07)
    ? 16. "Why Do You Help Me?" (dialogue - Wallace and Princess Isabelle) (0:37)
    ? 17. For the Love of a Princess (previously released score) (4:05)
    ? 18. "Not Every Man Really Lives" (dialogue - Wallace and Princess Isabelle) (4:09)
    ? 19. "The Prisoner Wishes to Say a Word" (dialogue - The Executioner and Wallace) (3:43)
    ? 20. "After the Beheading" (dialogue - Robert the Bruce) (1:48)
    ? 21. "You Have Bled with Wallace!" (dialogue - Robert the Bruce) (1:22)
    ? 22. Warrior Poets (dialogue - William Wallace) (0:29)
    ? 23. Scotland the Brave (traditional) (2:47)
    ? 24. Leaving Glenhurqhart (traditional) (3:32)
    ? 25. Kirkhill (traditional) (4:08)


    If you have never heard this soundtrack before, check out clips on amazon:
    Braveheart: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000004286/sr=1-1/qid=1153606483/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9287143-7015819?ie=UTF8&s=music
    More Music from Braveheart: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000041NZ/ref=pd_sim_m_3/103-9287143-7015819?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=5174

    Review on Filmtracks: http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/braveheart.html



    Here is our Master List of Soundtracks and their average ratings (out of *****):


    Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (Dun) ****

    Dragonheart (Edelman) ****

    Entrapment (Young) *** 1/2

    Far and Away (Williams) ****

    Finding Neverland (Kaczmarek) **** 1/2

    Gladiator (Zimmer, Gerrard, Badelt) ****

    The Hunt for Red October (Poledouris) ****

    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (Williams) ****

    Jurassic Park (Williams) ****

    The Mask of Zorro (Horner) ****

    Medicine Man (Goldsmith) ****

    The Mummy R/>
  24. QUI-DON-JINN Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2005
    star 1
    One of my favorite scores and number two in my ranking of Horner scores (after Mask of Zorro). I was glad when "More Music from . . ." came out, but disappointed there was so much overlap. I'm glad the prologue bit and Scottish wedding music are in there. I very much like the use of the Irish pipes, but it is interesting he didn't use bagpipes. It is Scotland, after all.

    The love themes are quite beautiful and the action music is pretty intense.

    5 out of 5 thistles
  25. Darth-Lutgerous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.