*OFFICIAL THREAD* The Obi-Wan / Anakin Duel

I watched ROTS last night and I must say that I'm gaining more and more appreciation for The Duel.

When you re-watch it you really see the complexity of each of the movements. It must have taken so long to reherse, and then to speed up the movement to such a level as to make it look dangerous and fluid.

And if you then add the emotional context behind it, it just becomes amazing.

Get's better everytime I watch it.

 

just watched the duel and i was wondering if anyone thought that if kenobi had not told him the duel was over because he had the high ground, do you think Vader was just planning to jump to the lower bank and continue the duel? I think he was and it makes sense only kenobi would know how to get into Vader's head

 

I think that out of Vader's arrogance he was not going to allow OBW to dictate when the duel was over... In other words, Anakin would set the tempo and decide when "he" was done fighting. He [Anakin] had to prove to OBW that Kenobi couldn't contain him...

 

I think it is really easy to explain, why Obi won the duel. Styles make fights. It is an old boxing saying. If anyone knows anything about the sport of boxing, you would know that certain fighters can look good against a certain fighter, then get beat by another. For example George Foreman ko'd Joe Fraizer, Fraizer beat Ali, Ali beat Foreman. All of these fighters are legends, and Ali later got the best of Fraizer in another fight, under different conditions.

Obi fought a defensive fight, then let Anakin make the first mistake. Anakins agressive style beat Dooku,and Dooku's control and force powers beat Obi. I don't think it has to do with power, or who is better. It has to do with the match-up. I don't think many would say Obi was more powerful or better with a blade than Qui-gon, but Obi did beat Maul, when Qui-gon could not. S$#% happens too!

 

The final ultimate Jedi lightsaber duel on the volcanic planet of Mustafar between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader has to be what many fans were all talking about in the movie. Also the Obi-Wan versus Anakin duel was my favorite part of the movie. The lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker tops all the other lightsaber duels in all of the Star Wars movies.

 

Does anyone think that Vader could have ended the duel in about 10 seconds?

Just watched the duel and the begining part where Vader kicks Kenobi in the chest. What about it? It seems like Vader could have killed Kenobi right then and there after he uses his lightsaber to force up kenobi's, leaving Kenobi's chest exposed. Instead, it seems Vader toys with Kenobi and kicks him in the chest instead of putting a lightsaber through it.


Does anyone agree? Or am I just a way to big Darth Vader fan?

 

What is the button that they accidentally press? It makes everything sink?

What is the practical use of such a button?

 

does anyone else wish Kenobi had worn his hood for at least part of the duel (ANH STYLE)?

nope, just me then...

 

Anakin beats Dooku
Dooku beats Obi-Wan
Obi-Wan beats Anakin

I thought of it as rock paper scissors. Different abilities. I don't know if obiwan is better than quigon at TPM time, if so, then the analogy wouldn't work there (quigon obiwan maul).


I suppose I was most excited when Obiwan and Anakin first started fighting, most amazed in the second "stage" on the small bridge that led to the corridor, and most surprised when Obiwan had the high ground.

 

It turned off the force fields on the collector arm.
(As far as practical use, I don't know.)

When you say "makes everything sink" it reminds me of the Mustafar level in BF2, where if you destroy a similar panel you can drop some enemies into the lava.

 

Without the force-fields it was possible for that big eruption of lava to melt off the giant collector arm. That's one of my favorite Ewan moments btw. When Anakin and Obi go duck behind something to get out of the way of the lava pieces. Ewan really sells the fear as all the molten debris are flying everywhere.

In his final strike what Anakin was trying to do was what Obi-Wan did to defeat Darth Maul. He tried to flip over him and hit him from behind. Of course Obi-Wan knew what he was going to do, because A)he had done it himself and B)he's a better tactitian and knew that was Anakin's only possible move. Of course it only works if the person isn't fast enough to defend against it but Obi-Wan was.

 

I agree, so I guess that makes both of us BIG Lord Darth Vader fans.
I have long since held the same position, that Vader toyed with Kenobi. The original script had a lot more interaction than what we got onscreen. Instead of witty dialogue and awesome displays of power, we got the "Epic-Silent-Confrontation".

But yeah, Vader could have just as easily impaled his former Master instead of kicking him in the sternum.

 

I think he wanted just to kick the crap out of him first.

 

I don't think it's that easy. I think it bears resemblance to Sideous vs. Mace when we see Sideous pointing his saber directly at Mace's breast. However, Sideous' arm was outstretched and Mace was backing away, so what seemed like a golden opportunity for Sideous was nothing more than attacking and defending.
Sure Vader had OBW on the run at the start, but OBW knew that was how it would be - and I just don't see Anakin toying with him. Anakin didn't toy with Dooku, he didn't toy with Mace (quite resolute there for a change), and he didn't toy with the Seperatists. Sure he would want to show to OBW that HE was now the master (as he soooooo wanted to in ANH too), but he gave his best shots! Mace kicks Sideous, and that's a good move. Why would it be different with Anakin?

 

Vader "toying" with Obi Wan? Come on?! No way!! Given the chance Vader wouldn't have hesitated!! After giving Obi Wan the ultimatum "If you're not with me than you're my enemy" Vader was not messin around!!!
"Do not hesitate, show no mercy!" -Sidious

 

I think that the duel perfectly illustrates Lucas' statement that Anakin is more powerful, but Obi-Wan is more experienced. That one statement perfectly articulates why Anakin lost. Because of his lack of experience, Anakin allowed his emotions to get the better of him. Thus, Anakin didn't fight at his best. Gillard even said that Anakin lost because he became emotional and made mistakes. Logically, if Anakin was rational and didn't make any foolish mistakes, then he would have won.

The only way that you can lose to a weaker opponent is if you exhibit poor strategic choices. If Anakin had fought more wisely, he would have defeated Obi-Wan. For almost the entire duel, Anakin was dominating Obi-Wan and driving him back.

The only points that Obi-Wan scored before gaining the high ground were:
1. On the Conference Table, Obi-Wan kicks Anakin in the butt (after Obi-Wan was choked for a significant period of time).
2. Also on the Conference Table, a saberless Anakin is charging Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan kicks him, and Anakin lands on his back. Obi-Wan goes for a killing blow, but Anakin is able to retrieve his saber and parry in time.
3. As they are leaving the Conference Room, Obi-Wan kicks Anakin again- albeit rather feebly.
4. A few seconds later, Obi-Wan gives Anakin another underwhelming kick in the exact same spot.

Anakin's points were:
1. He kicks Obi-Wan near the beginning of the duel, just before the film cuts to Yoda visting the Emperor, requiring Obi-Wan to do a backflip in order to recover from the kick.
2. Anakin chokes Obi-Wan with his gloved hand, an attack that was working quite efficiently.
3. Anakin kicks Obi-Wan to the ground on the Conference Table.
4. After they move out of the Conference Room, Anakin kicks Obi-Wan in the face.
5. Later in the duel, Anakin punches Obi-Wan in the face.

I didn't count the Force push as points for anyone, since the result was a draw.

If you consider the entire duel and not just the ending, then I dont' see how you can come to the conclusion that Obi-Wan is better than Anakin. Anakin was in control the majority of the time. Even Anakin's physical attacks were more frequent and more effective than Obi-Wan's physical attacks were. If Anakin had been astute enough to jump to the high ground before Obi-Wan had a chance to, then Anakin would have triumphed over his former Mentor.

Gillard pointed out that winning one fight doesn't make you the best. It's possible to defeat someone better than yourself if your opponent doesn't fight to the best of his ability. Anyone can have a bad day.

 

Hmmmmmm....interesting...

 

Also Obi-Wan was clearly more tired toward and struggling by the time they're fighting on the droids above the lava river. Obi-Wan gaining the high ground meant a slight advantage. He knew that Anakin's only possible chance for success would be try to leap behind him(like Obi-Wan did when he killed Darth Maul). Obi-Wan knew he could beat him if he did which is where him pleading "Don't try it." came from.

 

I don't know how Obiwan could have known that Anakin had absolutely no shot to jump over him. Anakin's skills were peerless. How Obiwan could have correctly determined that even with his unbelievable skills, Anakin could not make the jump, seems to suggest that the Force was with Obiwan like no other. If the Force created Anakin to a specific task, and Anakin went the complete opposite from that task, would the Force act out? Would it aline it's "being" with Obiwan? Because, let's face it, if Anakin defeats Obiwan on Mustafar, I see little chance for redemption. Anakin would go insane on the unbelievable amount of power he would be wielding. The guy would seize control of the galaxy, unlocking Force secret after Force secret manipulating the Force in ways we can only dream of.

 

I don't think Vaderkin was holding anything back on Mustafaar. He was angry as heck and the look in his eyes would chill anyone. There was hatred there, and Obi-Wan saw that and went into defensive mode, waiting for his chance - which Vaderkin was all too willing to provide with rash actions and not "looking (thinking) before you leap." Some of these old adages really are true...

 

If Anakin's skills truly were peerless at that point, he wouldn't have lost. There's also no reason for his skills to have decreased overtime, so it's entirely plausible that OT Vader is more skilled than his RotS counterpart, though he has less raw strength. I do agree Anakin would in time be unstoppable and the closest equivalent of a Force god that would ever have come to pass in Star Wars, however, it was cut short by Ben and I just don't see any real evidence on screen that he's on par with Yoda, Mace and Sidious. He's clearly more powerful than Dooku, but Dooku's probably not a level 9.

I don't either. I think the only times Vader holds back is when he fights Luke, and I think in Jedi it's debateable if Vader's holding back the entire time(I think he's holding back for all of the duel except when Luke charges him for threatening Leia, at which point I think he's trying his hardest to defend himself, and Luke's simply to use Palpatine's phrasing "far younger and more powerful.")

 

I AM saying Obi-Wan knew that Anakin was powerful enough to make the jump. What I mean is that Obi-Wan was prepared for it and was fast enough to strike at Anakin while he was flipping over him.