Official Title Confirmation : Episode III: Revenge of the Sith!!!!

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by stormcloud8, Jul 24, 2004.

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  1. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    It makes sense too, after the poor Sith having their plans wrenched in the TPM and AOTC, by Anakin, to have him on the dark side will be a nice revenge.

    You must have been watching different versions of TPM and AotC than the ones I saw...
  2. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    When I first heard about the title, I was somewhat shocked, because I had decided that it couldn't be something like Revenge of the Sith, since it would break the pattern.
    Then I decided that I would have to understand the title choice in order to accept it. So I wrote down all the titles:

    THE PHANTOM MENACE
    ATTACK OF THE CLONES
    REVENGE OF THE SITH
    A NEW HOPE
    THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
    RETURN OF THE JEDI

    and considered it for a while. Then it dawned on me: Lucas doesn't have a particular pattern or system in mind for the titles. He has just given each episode the title that fits best. This realisation made it very easy for me to accept the title and now I completely LOVE it!
    So congratulations to all of you who stood up for this title all the way, because you saw from the beginning that the title should just be what fits the episode best. You were right and I was wrong(luckily) :)

    BTW: In hindsight, "The Sith Rise Forth" wouldn't have been nearly as good, because Revenge of the Sith is so much more Star Wars. It's a strong title with a clear message and it's very memorable.
  3. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Ever since this title was announced, I've caught myself calling ROTJ Revenge of the Jedi several times. It's annoying!
  4. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    A couple of weeks later here...and I'm STILL loving this title! My favorite title of the saga.
  5. Obi-Wan's Apparition Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 5
    Eh, I've warmed up to it a little bit more. I still think it's pretty poor. [face_plain]
  6. Jedi knight Pozzi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 6
    I'm still calling it EpIII. Plus I still think it's a fake title.
  7. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    The title for EpII was announced around the same time 3 years ago. Trust me, it's for real.

    storm: I agree, it's the best! :)
  8. Obi-Wan's Apparition Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2000
    star 5
    The title for EpII was announced around the same time 3 years ago. Trust me, it's for real.

    [Luke]NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!![/Luke] :(
  9. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Ah well... I'm getting used to it. Still not my favorite by any means though. I don't think it's quite "deep" enough... especially since I don't see Episode III as being a movie about either the Sith or Revenge, but about Anakin's personal fall. But whatcha gonna do? The movie will rule anyway.
  10. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Then let me explain it to you. The PT is all about the revenge of the Sith. Maul mentioned it in TPM("At last we will have revenge") and in ROTS, the time has come. We don't yet know exactly what this revenge deal is about, but one can assume, from lines spread out in TPM and AOTC, that the Jedi and the Sith fought a great war 1000 years prior to the films and that the Sith were annihilated(or so the Jedi thought). All the scheming the Sith have been doing in these movies have been leading up to this point; where they will finally strike back at the Jedi and let them taste the bitterness of extermination.
    Anakin's fall is part of the deal, not the entire deal.

    Here are the lines I was referring to:

    - The Sith have been extinct for a millennium.

    - I will not let this Republic, which has stood for a thousand years, be split in two.

    - There hasn't been a fullscale war since the formation of the Republic.
  11. Raz Zaphon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2000
    star 4
    Not to mention "The Sith have been extinct for nearly a millinia"

    Hyperspace users have seen a video where George Lucas says more on the history of the Sith, which suggests that even more information will be given in the movie on what we know about this ancient war. The title is growing on me.
  12. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    I think the Sith thing will be fully explained in the movie. If you look at the OT, all the pieces of the story of the Jedi story didn't really come together until ROTJ, when Ben finally fessed up the truth to Luke on Dagobah, and the Emperor explained his plan to Luke. I think some similar explanation will happen in ROTS as far as the story of the revenge.
  13. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    Then let me explain it to you. The PT is all about the revenge of the Sith.

    Believe me, I get it. Sure, the underlying story of the PT is how the Sith come back to power and get their "revenge." But that isn't the main focus of any of the movies, it's a peripherial story. At it's core, the PT (and the OT for that matter) is all about the rise and fall of Anakin Skywalker. The rise of the Sith does in part serve as a catalyst for his fall, and it's his fall to the Dark Side that keeps the Sith in power... but it's a cause and effect thing.

    In a way, the Jedi Council and the Senate function in a similiar way. They, like the Sith, are crucially important in the political background story of the PT... but the main story, in my opinion, is more philosophical and spiritual. It's about why all those physical factors combined with the more important pyschological factors: the Jedi beliefs and way of life, the benefits and consequences of love, attachment, vulnerability, power, arrogance.... and how these affect Anakin's personality- because that, is what is really important, it's Anakin (combined with Palpatine) who bring the fall of the Republic, the darkness. It isn't the Sith of 1000 years ago, it's personally Anakin and Palpatine.

    I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else... but I just take a far more philosophical look at it. I can deal with "Attack of the Clones"... but since this is the 3rd movie, I would have liked it to function more like "Return of the Jedi", which was yes, about both the whole of the Jedi Order, but also more personally about Anakin and Luke. Although it's the same structure, I find "Revenge of the Sith" to be less so. If there was ever a psychological SW movie, this will be it. I mean, Anakin goes from Jedi and father to Vader literally in one movie. That he goes Sith is less important than than WHY and how such a charmed person falls from grace. The the same thing in Shakespeare's tragic heros, what's important is not that they kill to be King, but why they kill in the first place.
  14. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Maybe that's why the title is so impersonal. Maybe it's supposed to bring a stark contrast to what's actually in there. Much like TESB, which isn't that much about the Empire striking back at all. Same with AOTC.
    ROTJ is another deal, because it's the end of the whole saga. ROTS is just the end of the first act, ROTJ ends the saga and that's why it's title is multilayered. Still, I would say that ROTS and ROTJ are both personal titles from the Jedi/Sith viewpoint. It's a personal battle between those two orders that has more to do with philosophical ideas than with galactic government.
  15. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    How anyone can dislike this title is seriously beyond me, i'm sorry - i'm always openminded about everything & i can usually see why someone would dislike/like some parts that i don't/do.

    But this title is just awesome. I truly...deeply...don't get the hate for it (although there's an overwhelming amount of people who like it).
  16. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2001
    star 6
    I love the title Revenge of the Sith and I love how is parallels Return of the Jedi:

    Return of the Jedi = 3 things: Luke returns in the movie as a Jedi, Anakin returns from the Darkside as a Jedi, and the Jedi Order is on it's path to restoration.

    Revenge of the Sith = 3 things: Palpatine seeking his personal revenge, Anakin seeking his personal revenge, and the Sith Order seeking it's long vendetta of revenge.

    Plus, it sounds cool :cool:
  17. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Palpatine's personal revenge? I must have missed something.
  18. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    For the sake of argument, "Revenge" is weaker than "Return"... it's obvious who returns, there's no mystery to it. But revenge? Are there "real" reasons for that?

    Why would Palpatine personally want revenge? Maybe there's a reason revealed in Episode III, but it's certainly been set up for 5 movies now that there is no reason for his actions other than the desire for power. That's why he's the ultimate evil, a madman who has no motive whatsoever. Vader will be set up to be evil, but he will have actual motivations, both imaginary (see below) and real. That's why he can still come back.

    And I'm sure in his mind there's something Anakin wants revenge for. He obviously blames the Jedi for something, which we'll find out about. Maybe it's Padme's death... but the thing is there is no real reason for Anakin to want revenge... it's all in his head, undoubtedly planted by Palpsidious.

    I don't know, it just isn't as pure as "Return of the Jedi" where the meaning is clear and true. It is truly the return of Luke, Anakin and the Jedi Order. We'll see about the revenge thing.

    I'm not saying I don't like the title, it fits in very well with all the rest... but I have the feeling it was chosen more for the sound of it, than the actual meaning. Trying to assign some deep meaning doesn't work that well... same with ESB and AOTC, they function fine, but it isn't worth reading deeply into it... unlike ANH, TPM and ROTJ.
  19. DamonD Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 22, 2002
    star 6
    That's why he's the ultimate evil, a madman who has no motive whatsoever.
    His desire for power can be just as strong a motive as any. He's power-hungry. He likes to have control and domination over others. That's what he wants, and that's his motive.

    Through the actions of Palpatine, the ancient Sith Order finally gain their revenge on those that they oppose - the Jedi - by almost wiping them out to a man.
  20. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Another thought here...maybe we're reading too much into the titles. As far as the depth of the title and whether this movie or that movie conveys a personal depth or a grand scheme. I think Lucas' goal with titles is just to find something that sounds like an old serial, and that summarizes what the movie is about. I just don't think he intends that much depth in the title.

    As far as Palpatine's personal revenge, I had not thought about that. But maybe there is more to the story than we know. Maybe the ugly mug of the Emperor is what he truly looks like, and he has been projecting the handsome face of the Chancellor by some Force trick. Perhaps as a child he was brutally scarred by the Jedi in some sort of accident, and grew up resenting them, lusting for power and a way to get his revenge.
  21. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    You bring up good points stormcloud.

    It's true none of the title are really that deep, I use it for lack of a better word. But there's still a difference between them. Some titles are more personal or function on varying levels whereas others do not. Without really thinking too hard about it "The Phantom Menace" could be the Sith, Palpatine, Maul, Anakin, or the notions of growing galatic unrest and the fracturing of the Republic, the air of potential hatred and violence... etc,...all of the above. "Attack of the Clones" is just that. The Republic have been driven/coerced into creating an army to fight the Seperatists. For example.

    I'll be really interested to see how the Palpatine thing is handled. Is there a real reason for his Sithliness? Something tells me no, as it would take away some of the "sympathy" for Anakin. But you never know what kind of curve ball George will throw.
  22. stormcloud8 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2002
    star 4
    Actually, I think that kind of a curveball might be interesting. If Palpatine is a one-dimensional megalomaniac, it makes him less interesting. What if there is a reason behind his evil? It makes Anakin's decision have that much more fuzziness, and the fall of Vader more intriguing. As long as the reason isn't something silly like his mom abandoned him for a Jedi lover or something.

    And your point about the vagueness of TPM is a good one, RS77. And when I think of it that way, ROTS works well. ROTS is finite, definite, and in your face. In Episode one there is a vague, undefined threat to the galaxy. In Episode III, it is out in the open and taking power. Over the course of the PT, the fate of the galaxy comes more into focus, and in Episode III it is decided, hence no more need for vague titles.
  23. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    ROTS is finite, definite, and in your face. In Episode one there is a vague, undefined threat to the galaxy. In Episode III, it is out in the open and taking power.

    Excellent point.

    I still wish it was more about Anakin, but that's just personal preference. :p
  24. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Revenge of the Sith was definitely not chosen for the sound of it. It was chosen because that's what the main story of Episode III is about. It's the title that fits best.
  25. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    the way i see it is:

    Phantom Menace = Sith
    Attack of the Clones = Republic
    Revenge of the Sith = Sith (obviously)
    A New Hope = Rebels (including Luke)
    Empire Strikes Back = Empire (including sith)
    Return of the Jedi = Jedi (including Anakin)

    Everyside (good/bad) gets 3 titles

    Lucas plays fair
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