Oh my God, they stole Threepio!!!

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Joeykin_Starrunner, Apr 22, 2005.

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  1. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    I thought he built it as a gift to his mother. Oh well... I'm always wrong...
  2. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    It doesn't really matter it was Anakin's droid. If that reason isn't enough for you, then there is a conversation in the novel between Anakin and Owen. Farm boy urges Anakin to take the droid back.

    no big deal.
    -Seldon
  3. MANDALORIAN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 4

    3PO is Anakins robot.

    Unfortunately true. One of the worst pieces of writing ever made available to the public. 4 year old level.


    Vader: Did you find any droids? Because they match the description of droids I used to own.

    Vader: Reset the chamber for Skywalker. Oh, and do you see that Droid on the wookiee's back? I built him you know.

  4. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    Anakin did build and own Threepio but that didn't excuse his bad manners. If there were scenes filmed for the farewell they should of been included. The film as it is makes Padme and Anakin look like ungrateful *********, but given their slightly weak characters as thus far it strengthens my dislike for them. Well done George Lucas I say!
  5. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Why was it bad writing to have Anakin create 3PO? I always thought it worked really very well, espeically if your coming at it from Episode I through to VI.
  6. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Vader: Did you find any droids? Because they match the description of droids I used to own.

    I think you mean:

    Vader: Did you find any toasters? Because they might match the description of a toaster I owned and a toaster my ex-wife owned 20 years ago that looked like every other toaster of their model. Forget about the fact that I have not seen what these toasters look like, only heard brief descriptions about them... Surely I must remember these toasters so many years later...

  7. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    Threepio's a toaster! :eek:


    :p
  8. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I agree with both G-FETT and Strilo.

    The old toaster analogy, it never gets old.

    -Seldon
  9. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    if your toaster was your friend and you built him from scratch and it was with you during all the key moments of your life then yeah you probably would remember.

    and toasters don't talk or have personalities

    "The last time he did that he ended up losing his mother and slaughtering an entire village, Anakin is scared."

    So if anything he should be in more of a hurry. If he had gone to save her when he originally wanted to then she would still be alive. Waiting longer wouldn't have saved her, nor obi-wan


    "Why was it bad writing to have Anakin create 3PO? I always thought it worked really very well, espeically if your coming at it from Episode I through to VI.

    it makes the universe feel very small, and there are many other ways c3p0 could have been introduced, such as on coruscant or aboard the TF ship, it just seems a shame to do it this way and then not even have him leave tatooine.

    but the real contrivence is Owen lars owning c3p0 twice.

    that is just terrible. I dont care if he would of recognized him or not, thats irrelevant, its just really really lame contrived story telling that was not nessesary or beneficial to the story in any way.
  10. MANDALORIAN Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 4

    Vader: Did you find any toasters? Because they might match the description of a toaster I owned and a toaster my ex-wife owned 20 years ago that looked like every other toaster of their model. Forget about the fact that I have not seen what these toasters look like, only heard brief descriptions about them... Surely I must remember these toasters so many years later...

    Strilo, that is rubbish and you know it.



    if your toaster was your friend and you built him from scratch and it was with you during all the key moments of your life then yeah you probably would remember.

    and toasters don't talk or have personalities


    Thats more like it. This toaster stuff is nonsense. At the very least a droid would be like a pet and I think you would remember your dog, even if there are other dogs in the world.

    And C3PO has a personality, was built by Anakin and was a constant presence.
    We can assume that Vader found out his name the way he found out Luke and Hans names after Yavin. He knows the Falcon gang but there is never any acknowledgement of the droid.

    It is not clever writing. It is contrived, illogical and unimaginative. It shrinks the Galaxy and raises questions as to why the whole thing is never referred to in the OT.



  11. Chaotic_Serenity Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 10, 2004
    star 4
    BTW, just where is this continuity hole with Vader and Threepio? Name me one scene in the entire OT where the two of them interact or even meet.

    Even then, Anakin had Threepio for *maybe* four years of his life. A few months when he was nine when he built him, then the three years after AOTC...the majority he spent AWAY from home in the Clone Wars. There are millions of droids just like Threepio out there. Look the same, talk the same, some likely even have similar personalities. And considering that Vader has done everything to remove himself from the Anakin personality, what's to say he wouldn't forget? (And as for Threepio - they'd have to be stupid not to wipe these droids memories following ROTS.)


    So if anything he should be in more of a hurry. If he had gone to save her when he originally wanted to then she would still be alive. Waiting longer wouldn't have saved her, nor obi-wan

    Waiting longer would have allowed him to come in after the fact, and he wouldn't have wound up in a village slaughtering small children in his rage. His mother was going to die no matter what. The only thing that could have helped is him going earlier, and he couldn't.

    Anakin was torn up about not going, but he got his orders directly from the Council's highest members. That's alot different than usual. It took a whole 30 seconds for Padme to convice him otherwise. One of the main themes of the saga is that personal desires MUST come second to the over all needs of others, or another good one - never run into a situation head first. Anakin was *trying* to do the right thing and follow orders. The same as with his mother - he only left for Tatooine when the dreams became overwhelming. Anakin and Padme went straight to Geonosis and wound up complicating the situation by not only getting captured, too, but putting Padme in danger.



    it makes the universe feel very small, and there are many other ways c3p0 could have been introduced, such as on coruscant or aboard the TF ship, it just seems a shame to do it this way and then not even have him leave tatooine.

    Which is totally your opinion. What? Darth Vader and Leia turning out to be Luke's immediate family didn't do the same thing? One of the major plot points of the OT was how tightly the Force intertwined everyone's destiny.



    but the real contrivence is Owen lars owning c3p0 twice.

    that is just terrible. I dont care if he would of recognized him or not, thats irrelevant, its just really really lame contrived story telling that was not nessesary or beneficial to the story in any way.


    So the idea of the Force setting everything into motion so that Luke can find his destiny as a Jedi is garbage? Okay then.



    Thats more like it. This toaster stuff is nonsense. At the very least a droid would be like a pet and I think you would remember your dog, even if there are other dogs in the world.

    Not really. We used to own pets when I was younger, but I barely remember them, and they had pretty distinct personalities. Hell, I'd be hard pressed to talk about some of my relatives that I knew in time periods longer than Anakin knew Threepio.


    And C3PO has a personality, was built by Anakin and was a constant presence.

    Correction: Threepio had a function similar to thousands of other droids. The droid at the beginning of TPM has a fairly fussy, proper attitude. Threepio was absent for most of Anakin's life.


    We can assume that Vader found out his name the way he found out Luke and Hans names after Yavin. He knows the Falcon gang but there is never any acknowledgement of the droid.

    No, not really. Luke's name was discovered through the interrogation of a captured Rebel. Han's name was likely found through similar means. I don't see why on Earth said Rebel would know Threepio, or why that name, which sounds like a dozen other droid names, would ring a bell when Vader is more concerned with the sudden revelation that he has a son. The Empire is concerned with the PEOPLE fighting it, not s
  12. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    "Darth Vader and Leia turning out to be Luke's immediate family didn't do the same thing? One of the major plot points of the OT was how tightly the Force intertwined everyone's destiny."

    vader being lukes father was cool. leia being luke's sister was not.

    It was just a bandaid to resolve the love triangle quickly and wrap things up when Lucas decided to condense the next 4 movies into one movie.

    Originally luke's sister was somebody else.



    "he idea of the Force setting everything into motion so that Luke can find his destiny as a Jedi is garbage? Okay then."

    No thats fine. C3P0 living with the lars in AOTC is the lame part.
  13. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    Rubbish?

    C-3P0 is the same mold, the same voice and the same personality as the other droids that are scattered about the galaxy. There is nothing unique or special about him at all.

    So yes, the toaster analogy works.
    If all toasters looked the same, and I built one and later sold it, I would never assume that a toaster I encounter 30 years later is the one I built.

    Mabe Vader knows it is 3P0, through the force. However the toaster analogy still holds up.

    -Seldon
  14. Rebel Scumb Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    well as i said its not he recognizability that is the real issue, its just the haphazard way he ends up being connected to the characters in too many convient ways.

    There's no benefit to the story to have 3P0 with the lars in AOTC, that didn't add anything to the movie, not even a single joke.
  15. Deeysew Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2005
    star 4
    Still makes me wonder what went through vader's head when he learned the names of the droids from the tantive IV computer. Or when his crew described what the droids looked like.

    He must have had an "Oh poodoo" moment.
  16. Luke_Landwalker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 2
    It makes you think that's why Lars was all ways worried about not having enough droids.
  17. G-FETT Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    Why does everybody assume Vader didn't notice 3PO in the one scene they share (ESB) What do you want Vader to do? Forget everything thats going on and run up to 3PO and greet him warmly? He tells Lando he wants the Princess and Wookiee taken to his ship, so 3PO would have gone with them-After he had frozen Luke and taken care of buisness, how do you know he wasn't intending to take time out to catch up with 3PO?

  18. Bacon164 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 22, 2005
    star 7
    I'm one that believes Vader stopped Fett because Threepio was on the Wookiee's back.
  19. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    "I'm one that believes Vader stopped Fett because Threepio was on the Wookiee's back."

    I've always agreed with that.

    -Seldon
  20. Bad_Feeling Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, I think Vader see's 3PO & wonders "is that really C3PO, I'd like to find out...", hence him stopping Fett from blowing him to (more) pieces.

    I don't think he stopped Fett from shooting because he thought "oh, looks there's 3PO, I built him so no one's going to shoot him!" :p
  21. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    Hopefully, this will solve the Vader recognizing 3PO debate once and for all...

    I think that all of you are forgetting that at the time that ESB was made, Lucas didn't have it in mind that Anakin built 3PO. So, Vader's reason for pulling Fett's gun down was NOT to avoid harming 3PO. You can come up with anything other than that, but that is NOT why he did it, bc at that time Vader had nothing to do with 3PO.

    This is what I'm sure happened...

    When Lucas went ahead and started writing the PM, he came up with the Vader/3PO concept, in a "hey wouldn't it be cool and ironic if..." kinda way, and then rewatched the OT to see if he could get away with it. And since the two characters only come "onstage" together at one point during the entire OT, in a chaotic scene in which they are far apart and many things are happenng at once, he figured that he could get away with it. And he does, bc there's no reason for Vader to have acknowledged 3PO at that time, on so many levels...he may not have recognized 3PO, he may have forced any thoughts of anakin skywalker out of his head, whatever floats your boat. But to strive to fill in the blanks, and swear that Lucas had this all plotted out, by saying that Vader didn't want Fett to shoot 3PO is just silly...a silly and false stretch. Just face it guys, not everything needs to be explained away =)
  22. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    First of all on this board nothing is "once and for all." Everything is open to eternal speculation.

    "I think that all of you are forgetting that at the time that ESB was made, Lucas didn't have it in mind that Anakin built 3PO."

    Regardless you have no evidence to say that Lucas didn't know. Find me a quote where Lucas said that he came up with the idea in 1994 and I'll back down. There is no quote, he has never said. There is no evidence either way. You are assuming that he didn't have it figured out.

    PPOR.

    -Seldon
  23. NeoBaggins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2003
    star 5

    C3PO went with his master, naturally. He is like a Dog who will wait forever for its master. Shmi was dead and so it is only logical that the droid would follow Anakin. Hes memeory is still intact.

    This wednsday when I had the chance to meet Anthony Daniels he said he was on the set and realised that the person who created him turns into the bad guy. He said "Poor threepio. I wonder does he know". And with a devilish grin he says "3PO has seen EPisodeIII". So I am wondering about the mind wipe thing.
  24. Joeykin_Starrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 1
    Well, this went a bit off topic, but that's the beauty of discussions...

    Darth Seldon said: "First of all on this board nothing is "once and for all." Everything is open to eternal speculation."

    Yea dude, I know, I was kidding when I said that my post should settle this debate "once and for all." I think some of you guys need to lighten up a tad on these boards, especially under a thread like this one, where the topic is not really a big deal and was merely created for some fun discussion. But I guess the only way that you can make a joke on these boards is to follow your sentence up with a silly little smiley face, like so =)

    Second of all, no I do not know for sure if Lucas had it in mind that Vader built 3PO back in 1980. But I'm pretty sure that he didn't. Why? Well because I really do feel that if Lucas had that in mind back then, then he would have found a way to make a slight reference to it, maybe not in that specific scene from ESB, but it woulda been in the OT somehow. That's just the type of filmmaker Lucas is. He's not very subtle a lot of the time, and likes to fill in his own gaps, and sometimes he hits you over the head with stuff (like how almost every major character from the OT got an obvious "introduction scene" in the PT where we were supposed to go "ooooh that's how they met!") . For example, if Lucas had Qui Gonn in mind back then, I feel that Obi Wan woulda mentioned him, at some point...maybe in that exposition scene from ROTJ after Yoda's death. Qui Gon may not have been mentioned by name, but maybe Obi Wan woulda said something like "The only one who had faith in your father was my old master. I tried to follow in his footsteps when he died, and thought that I could teach Anakin as well as he could have. I was wrong." as opposed to referring to Yoda, as he does in the finished film. I think that had Lucas had some of the bigger plot threads and characters from the PT in mind during the OT, they woulda been referenced to. For another example, there's a really big spoiler from ROTS that I won't mention (but that I'm sure those who know of it know which one I mean) that I feel woulda been brought up for sure in the OT had Lucas had it in mind back then. The only thing I can think of that could cover up some of these "plot holes" that people are continually trying to over-explain is if someone in ROTS says "Ok well that was fun. But let's never speak of these events again, and if we do, let them be only in their broadest terms...agreed?" ;)

    But I digress.

    At any rate, the point that I really wanna make is that I think it's naive to think that Lucas had every little thing plotted out for all six films at the same time, and sometimes people try too hard to cover up some plot holes by saying "well this happened in the OT bc this happened in the PT" when the truth is that Lucas couldn't have covered every base and filled in every blank and had every single detail from midichlorians to Eopie farts plotted out back in the '70s, people. That's why he only referred to the PT in it's broadest terms during the OT, without getting into much detail, cause he knew that if he ever got the chance to make the prequels then he could simply follow the guidlines set up by the exposition discussed in 4,5, and 6, add in the details, and simply be careful not to contradict anything he said in the OT about the PT. When he sat down and actually started to flesh out the details of the prequels, Lucas would come up with some new ideas and characters as he went along, then review the OT to make sure evey new thing he came up with in the '90s made sense, and he could get away with including them without too much scrutinization.

    At any rate, I still stand by my prior statement...if Lucas had it in mind that Vader had built Threepio back when he was making the OT, then there woulda been some sort of reference to it in the OT. And those of you who think that Vader withheld Fett from shooting Chewie because of 3PO are simply reading too much into it. Luckily, Lucas got away with the Vader building Threepio thing
  25. Lapti_Nek Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2005
    star 1
    The toaster analogy is a bit basic, but it stands. Even his "name" is just a model number and designation. Do you think there's only one C-3PO in the entire galaxy?

    C-3PO is not his serial number. It's his model number and personal designation. There are other C-3POs, there are other R2-D2s, and there are other R5-D4s.

    If he were the only C-3PO, then that would mean the run of C-_PO droids would be limited, unless you think somewhere out there is a C-9999PO.

    Besides- He wasn't INVENTED by Anakin. He was scrap. Anakin put him together from parts, like any other kit project.

    A better analogy would be a vehicle built from scrap metal and car parts. If the vehicle were, say, a Ford F-150, it would only be unique if you put something in it that's different than other F-150s. In fact, Anakin didn't make C-3PO any different than a by-the-book droid. The end result is a typical example of his model with no customizations that would make him recognizable as anything but a stock C-PO droid, specifically a C-3PO droid.

    Relate it to a computer if a toaster is too basic. If you built an Apple iMac from a pile of old iMac parts, you'd have an iMac. If you called it "333MHz iMac" and it behaved just like every other 333MHz iMac, then how would you know it was the exact same iMac several decades later- Especially since the hard drive has been wiped and the iMac has no trace of ever having been yours.

    The same applies to Obi-Wan and R2-D2 (and 3PO). He doesn't recognize R2 as anything but another R2 unit out of the thousands he's seen in his many years of living. It beeps like any other R2. It has a primary color like any other R2. It performs all the same functions as any other R2. It wouldn't even occur to him that this R2-D2 is the same R2-D2 that he knew years ago.

    Speaking, having a "personality", and worrying about their masters is what droids are built for. Nothing that R2 or 3PO can do is any different than that which is built into every droid. It's a PROGRAM, and that's all. The thing that makes our R2 & 3PO different- after a while- is that once they get with Luke, they never have a memory wipe, and they start to develop what people perceive as a personality. Most droid owners wipe their memories to avoid such oddities, but Luke actually likes them being "part of the family", and it's a sort of reward for their major role in the end of the Empire.

    But they are still product. Things. Not people. Not recognizable as unique. They are part of a production line.

    I would think seeing the battledroids would have clued people in. Can you tell one battledroid from another?

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