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PT OK Let's Settle This - Mace vs Sidious

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by MidKnighT, Feb 1, 2017.

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Who Wins - Mace or Sidious?

  1. Mace Windu

    26 vote(s)
    44.1%
  2. Darth Sidious / Palpatine

    28 vote(s)
    47.5%
  3. A Never Ending Draw

    5 vote(s)
    8.5%
  1. MidKnighT

    MidKnighT Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    In a neutral location, just the two of them. Battle to the death. Who wins?

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Of course this question hinges on whether you think Sidious threw their fight because Anakin was on his way.
     
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  2. Anakin.Skywalker

    Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2016
    Mace Windu. I don't think Sidious threw the fight.
     
  3. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Mace won in the movie, and George confirmed Mace overpowered Sidious.
     
  4. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    sidious no doubt. he did throw the fight and could have killed mace at anytime. he carries two sabers so he still had one on him. the one he later uses to fight yoda.
     
  5. Anakin.Skywalker

    Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2016
    I did not know he carried two sabers. Very interesting...
     
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  6. thejeditraitor

    thejeditraitor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    from tcw..

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Anakin.Skywalker

    Anakin.Skywalker Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2016

    Oh, that explains it. Yeah, I've never seen TCW, lol!
     
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  8. cubman987

    cubman987 Friendly Neighborhood Saga/Music/Fun & Games Mod star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2014
    Well one of them ended up dead and the other ended up as the emperor of an entire galaxy....tough call. :p
     
  9. IMightRegretThisUsername

    IMightRegretThisUsername Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Who wins? I'm going to go with an entire assembly or council of citizens having the highest deliberative functions in a government, especially a legislative assembly of a state or nation, beating one single Jedi.

    No contest.
     
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  10. Carlandrea

    Carlandrea Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 1, 2016
    This will never be settled
     
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  11. oncafar

    oncafar Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2017
    right now i'm going to go with not enough information because i haven't seen mace fight enough.

    also, i wonder if sidious could turn mace. i mean that guy seems to hate sith. lol
     
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  12. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    Not to mention Samuel L. Jackson as well, but he may be a little biased.
    Too many moments seemed impossible to fake if Palpatine was allegedly throwing the duel.

    In my thoughts, despite his Force abilities, Palpatine just wasn't as skilled as Mace with a lightsaber. Mace won the duel the second he had him cornered on the floor. That's not to say the fight couldn't have gone on further beyond lightsabers, though. That much, we will never know.
     
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  13. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    The Making Of ROTS book fully states Windu was played and they only left it ambiguous fro fans to debate.
     
  14. J7Luke

    J7Luke Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2017
    I have a hard time believing that Sidious would deliberately mar and weaken himself just to put on a show for Anakin. I can almost see the argument that by making Anakin kill Mace, it pushed Anakin past the point of redemption, but, as smart and manipulative as Sidious was, I am sure he could have found a way to complete Anakin's fall to the dark side some other way. As a side note, we can't really use Sidious's fight against Maul and Savage as a valid metric since we can all agree Mace could easily beat Maul and Savage as well. Sidious really didn't have much going his way as far as extraordinary force powers; his lightning, corkscrew, and force throws seemed to be his only force tricks in combat (sure he had other force abilities, but they weren't useful in lightsaber duels). I would consider Yoda to have lost only by a bit in that duel towards the end of RoTS, and Yoda wasn't nearly as skilled in duels as Mace. Mace could clearly counter Sidious's force powers as well as Yoda, so it came down to lightsaber skills, and Palpatine (who probably got limited practice dueling) wasn't able to compete with perhaps the most competent duelist of the time.

    My best guess is that Palpatine wanted a similar scenario to what happened to play out, but he underestimated Mace and had to improvise. The whole, 'barbecue myself and hope Anakin will take the bait' thing was probably a last resort option.
     
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  15. Lord_Onveh

    Lord_Onveh Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2009
    It's difficult. I believe Sidious outshines Mace in the force and Mace outshines Sidious in lightsaber combat. I think the only reason Sidious even engaged them with a lightsaber was because there were so many of them. Against Yoda, he immediately went with Force Lightning knocking little green out for a moment. In Episode 6 he didn't even use a lightsaber. When he did whip out his lightning on Mace, he says "Unlimited Powah!" I don't feel he had the same confidence (Unlimited Lightsaber Works) in his swordplay.

    So in a neutral duel, where both of them are not messing around, I don't think SIdious would try a blade at all, and will go for the lightning. Mace has proven that with effort he can block it and press forward. I think of all the Jedi in the order of that time, Mace had the 'right' combination to beat him. When Sidious uses the lightning on Yoda, his lightsaber is immediately knocked away. I think the physical strength of his body can't quite hold back that power with a lightsaber the way Mace can.

    Mace has the lightsaber abilities to win the duel and the physical strength to push through the lightning with his lightsaber. So I personally give the win to Master Windu.
     
  16. Dandelo

    Dandelo SW and Film Music Interview Host star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    The way I see it would take too long to type and most will lose interest half way through reading it, so I will just type the conclusion to my (not written) essay

    Mace won the battle, Sidious won the war....in that particular scenario.
     
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  17. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    If Sidious was faking it, he wouldn't shoot lightning at Windu.

    I have the book and don't recall any statement on this.
     
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  18. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    George Lucas states otherwise.
     
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  19. J7Luke

    J7Luke Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Do you have the quote? I am interested to know what he has said about it.
     
  20. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    "This sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand.

    But this part where he pretends to lose his power* and be weak was something that I added later, because it moved the point where Anakin turns, down to this moment right here.* And you can see that he wants him to go on trial so that he can pump him for information on how to get these powers [to save Padmé]."


    * the moment being "I can't hold it any longer. I'm too weak."

    So Mace does beat Sidious and Sidious blasts him with lightning. And only then does Sidious pretends to be weak to force Anakin to make a decision. In a previous version of this sequence, Anakin was with Palpatine from the very beginning. However, as Lucas states, it was always going to end with Mace beating Sidious and Sidious faking being powerless as he Mace deflects the lightning.
     
  21. SouthernYankeeJedi

    SouthernYankeeJedi Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Mace Windu's aggressive form of combat clearly surprised and overpowered Palpatine. Windu made the right move to bring other Jedi with him. As Lord_Onveh noted, Palpatine resorted to lightsaber combat, likely, due to there being so many Jedi.

    Star Wars Theory did a what-if scenario on his youtube channel where Obi-Wan and Yoda accompanied him instead of Kit, Agen and Saesee. Windu was strong enough to knock out Palpatine on his own, but having Obi Wan and Yoda there ensures a much stronger supporting cast that could have served as a buffer against an irrational Anakin
     
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  22. J7Luke

    J7Luke Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2017
    Thanks! :)
     
  23. DBPirate

    DBPirate Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Really? When did he say this? I want it to be true! Mace is one of my favorite characters.

    EDIT: Nevermind, needed to read a bit more. ;) Glad to see my head canon actually confirmed.
     
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  24. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Correct, except that Palpatine didn't at all feign weakness in the original cut, it just was kind of a stalemate I believe, and still dependent on Anakin's action to determine the outcome. Making Anakin's decision to join Sidious originally more intentional on Anakin's part, and more motivated by Anakin being actually legitimately opposed to the path of the Jedi Order.
     
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  25. ladygrey45

    ladygrey45 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2015
    I think Palpatine could have killed Mace if he wanted to he just needed to trick Anakin Palpatine was never in danger. He even beat Yoda