OK, maybe I'm way off base here....

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Cetera, Sep 5, 2002.

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  1. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    But I really think there are a couple of things that should probably be addressed.

    First of all, as an oldbie casually taking an interest in these forums again (and for those of you who may not know, I was actually here way back in '98 under the name Peter. Some may remember, some not, but I was here, and actually saw OWC post) I have noticed a couple of alarming trends that caused problems way back in the day, and seem to be recurring again.

    The problem seems to be this: Mods don't like certain posters, and tend to cause trouble for them, at the same time pandering to "favorites."

    Take, for instance, gundark's request to have sarcasm unbanned. That hardly seems like spam, no matter how you cut it. What is so terribly wrong about asking for a name to be unbanned? And Wattowatta's thread about the closing of PB's "______ is passed out on my couch" thread. Now apparently PB isn't in high favor around here. And apparently threads mentioning alcohol are no longer allowed (which seems pretty ridiculous, but there you have it). The point is, it looks suspicously like the thread was closed simply because PreacherBoy was involved in it a long time ago, and you can't have his name running around on the boards causing strife. That may not be what it was, but that is what it looks like to me.

    Also, when this was actually brought up in the communications thread by Wattowatta, it was promptly closed down. "If you have a problem, PM the Mod in question." This is a simple effort to not have to deal with biases in public. Mods are not gods, as stated before, and therefore do have biases. It once again appears that certain Mods are taking the low road, not admitting error, and putting it in 'private' where no one else can see, 'cause it might make them look bad.

    This is a community forum. The community should be allowed to have their say. The Mods should not determine who has a voice and who doesn't, just because someone may happen to disagree with someone else. If someone is causing problems (and by problems I actually mean something that is more than whining) then you may be within your rights to take action. But locking threads that are mostly harmless, except for the mentioning of alcohol, when they used to be the norm, and often quite amusing, on this board just seems wrong.

    Then there is the post in the TPM forum about the new banner, where LMM gets pretty indignant and says his opinion is the way things are simply because he is a "staff member." It is things like this that really caused problems in the community of yesteryear. I am now beginning to remember why I did leave these boards in the first place, and am finding very little reason to stay.

  2. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Addressing the part about gundark, because I was the one who handed out the warning:

    I don't even know gundark on these boards. So the argument about favorites and users we don't like doesn't hold water there. Yesterday, there was a thread by him asking for a silly title. It was locked and rightfully so. Then today there's that thread.

    I told him via PM that a user who has been around as long as he has knows full well that Communications is not to be used as a campaigning platform to get someone unbanned. Two threads like that in Communications is spam. If you disagree, bounce it around some other admins. I certainly will admit I'm wrong, but I'm pretty confident here.
  3. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    I'm surprised to see that the gundark situatoin was not dealt with more harshly. It was obvious spamming from someone who should know better.

    Also, my position as a member of the Advisory Council led a concerned member to send me a PM regarding the LMM issue earlier today. The member took great offense at the elitist "my way or the highway" attitude he expressed in this thread.

    I am inclined to agree with the member in this case. I, too, find fault in LMM's handling of the discussion and criticism.

    AYBABTU?

  4. John of the collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 1998
    star 4
    As I understand it, Gundark has made appropriate PMs to get the name Unbanned.


    Is there a date in one of those JC histroy threads that says in effect:

    On this day everyone became too darn serious about everything even though its just an internet website about a movie?

    And if it isn't in the history then it should be. ;)
  5. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    LMM is a staff designer. It's his prerogative to make decisions as to what is and what isn't included in a banner he designs. Anything else on LMM, PM myself or another admin.

    Let's get back on topic.
  6. gundark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 1999
    star 4
    More harshly?

    You mean whips and rubber gloves?

    I'm down!
  7. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    "Let's get back on topic."

    The LMM issue was mentioned in the original post. It is on topic.

    AYBABTU?

  8. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    I understand where you're coming from, Cetera, and I even agree with some of your points, but unfortunately the JC is not a democracy, and it will never be.

    It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Mod Squad is riddled with flaws, but there's very little you, I, or anyone else can really do about it. [face_plain]
  9. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
    This is a community forum. The community should be allowed to have their say. The Mods should not determine who has a voice and who doesn't, just because someone may happen to disagree with someone else. If someone is causing problems (and by problems I actually mean something that is more than whining) then you may be within your rights to take action. But locking threads that are mostly harmless, except for the mentioning of alcohol, when they used to be the norm, and often quite amusing, on this board just seems wrong.

    True, but there is a fine line beween voicing your opinion on an issue that should be addressed, and spamming the Comms Forum.

    The moderators use their best judgment to find that fine line and keep the place free of clutter and spam. If a user has a disagreement about it, they can PM that moderator and discuss it. Also, your being an "oldbie", I am sure you have seen instances where threads are locked and re-opened by moderators after discussing the issue privately with the users.
  10. gundark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 1999
    star 4
    Spam has become a catchall phrase to sweep away anything that an admin disagree's with but isn't breaking any other rule. I've made legitimate if somewhat short and offhanded requests.

    DON'T SHUT ME OUT! :(
  11. buttsteak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 2
    All your off base are belong to me.
  12. Cetera Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2000
    star 2
    Also, having read the TOS policy, I notice that it doesn't mention anything at all about alcohol. It does have a catch-all phrase "or otherwise inappropriate may be removed at the sole discretion of the administration." So who's discretion are we going by that decided alcohol is totally off limits, and what was the reason behind it?
  13. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    Someone set up us the elitism.

    AYBABTU?

  14. Internet_Drama Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2001
    star 1
  15. Carter-TFN Ex-Staff, Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2001
    star 4
    Woops, you're right AYABABTU. Anyhow, I'll restate my position. Whoever is in charge of designing any banner has the prerogative to choose what elements are included. And as a staff designer, it's LMM's job to make those decisions. With regard to the post, it was merely a frustration that other people were telling him how to do his job.
  16. gundark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 1999
    star 4
    So now that everyone is paying attention...

    Unban Sarcasm. Thx.
  17. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    EDIT: misfire.. read message below plz
  18. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    I am inclined to agree with the member in this case. I, too, find fault in LMM's handling of the discussion and criticism.


    PB has been banned and demoted for such things for a period of time, maybe LMM needs one to understand his errors.
  19. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    It was just the attitude and tone of his posts that caught the eye of so many. He utterly and completely wrote of any criticisms or suggestions by saying "LMM in charge. LMM do as LMM please."

    The suggestions and criticisms came from members of the Community -- people who come here for entertainment and socializing. Their criticims should not be simply thrown aside with such egotism and disregard.

    His right to make whatever banner he wants is not the issue. The issue is that he did not represent the Administration very positively with his attitude.

    AYBABTU?

  20. Grilled-Sarlacc Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2001
    star 6
    gundark, (and everyone else), if you have an issue that you want to address about a moderator's actions, or if you just feel like you're being picked on, you can PM any moderator, manager, or admin to discuss it. No one is trying to shut you out and your issue will be heard.

    Comms really isn't the place to ask questions or rally for the cause of particular single users, but rather forum management, communication between users and/or mods, and the operation of the threads as a whole with regards to policy.

    And the subject of discussing alcohol is a valid one, IMO.

    But re-read the Terms of Service. It is very explanatory on most issues.
  21. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    Sarcasm never even broke the TOS , it was wrong to ban the name.
  22. Dan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 6
    But AA, there are parts of the TOS that we cannot read. Remember? [face_plain]
  23. AlienAcid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2000
    star 6
    True I forgot about the hidden invisible I dont like this even though there is nothing wrong here I WILL BAN THIS USERNAME FOR NO LEGIT REASON button.
  24. gundark Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 1999
    star 4
    Gotcha GS. I've been around the block. I know the rules. I used the whole PM method. I filled out my unban requests like a good soilder.

    Nothing happened. So. Here we are.
  25. John of the collective Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 1998
    star 4
    I don't so much have a problem with the banner per se' I understand what LMM was going for, BUT given the nature of the TPM forum past and even present and the Polorization of opinions, wouldn't it have been in TFN's best interest to have a banner that is more Neutral?

    As for the unban requests as I said before, I believe Gundark has tried the legitimate channels.
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