Okay, so what does 'human-cyborg relations' mean?

I get a mental picture of C-3PO acting as a go-between for an ordinary person and a Terminator or a Borg.

What does 'human-cyborg relations' mean?

 

This?

 

Threepio can translate communication between other living species or other mechanicals. Translating what Artoo says to Luke is perfect example. Threepio bridges the gap when humans and droids can't communicate directly.

 

Wouldn't he simply identify himself as a "translator droid" then?

If 3PO translated between humans and, say, General Grievous or Darth Vader, then he'd be engaged in human-cyborg relations. Of course, both Grievous and Vader speak Basic/English.

By the way, whose bright idea was it to make R2 units chirp and beep to communicate? What if there's no protocol droid around? What if you're not in a spacecraft with an on-screen translation display like an X-wing fighter? Why not just give R2 units a standard voice synthesizer?

 

No room.

I don't have any idea what "human-cyborg relations" is supposed to mean, though. Must be one of 3PO's quirks (and, if so, another reason to regularly wipe droids' memories).

 

I wouldn't get too hung up on the word "cyborg", as it doesn't refer to half-man/half-machine beings as much as it refers to human/droid relations.

The reason Artoo beeps instead of speaks is because most astromech droids appeared to be just workers and don't have the epic involvement in matters like Artoo did. He's a special case.

 

oh oh... i don't like where this is going hehe

 

A cyborg is just another word for a human-like robot, like the 3PO units or the Death Star droid.

"Droid" as short for "android" seems to refer to all locomotive robots, including astromechs and mouse droids. A cyborg is a type of droid, specifically the humanoid type.

 

I am not sure this is correct. Cyborg is short for Cybernetic organism. An organsim is something alive or at least organic. So it is a mix of living and artificial bits.
C3PO har no organic parts as far as I know.

Also BOTH R2D2 and C3PO are called droids in SW. "Don't forget the DROIDS", How long have you had these DROIDS" and so on. C3PO is called a protocol droid if I remember right.

So I do not think that C3PO or the other humanoid droids in SW would fit the definition of cyborg and they are not called that in any event.

Regards
Nordom

 

If cyborg = cybernetic organism = an "organism with artificial bits", to what "cyborg" could C-3PO possibly be referring? Darth Vader? General Grievous? Wat Tambor? Those are the only three characters in the Saga that fit your definition, and I feel certain, as I'm sure you'll agree, that the latter two weren't even created or imagined at the time Lucas wrote the dialogue under discussion. C-3P0 wouldn't be a very useful droid if his job was to be a mediator between one "cyborg" in the known Galaxy, and the rest of the population of the Galaxy. It just doesn't make any sense.

The only explanation must be that in the GFFA, "cyborg" is another word for "robot", just like "droid". I endeavored to make reasonable distinctions among the three terms, but of course you're free to accept these or not.

 

If cyborg = cybernetic organism = an "organism with artificial bits", to what "cyborg" could C-3PO possibly be referring? Darth Vader? General Grievous? Wat Tambor? Those are the only three characters in the Saga that fit your definition

There's also Lobot, and Luke once he gets his hand chopped off. Obviously there would be be many more in the whole galaxy and maybe even whole planets with a majority of cyborgs.

A cyborg, even in Star Wars, is an organism which is part organic and part mechanical - a cybernetic organism. Droid is short for android, a human-like robot, but in SW it has become a generic term for all robots whatever they look like.

By saying his job is in 'Human-Cyborg relations' Threepio simply means he is a droid who works on behalf of humans to help them understand other beings. A cyborg may still be considered human (like Vader) or they may be considered a different species. So Threepio is saying that he works for relations between Humans (or other species) and cyborgs and whoever they need to communicate with.

 

I just don't think that's the case. Why would Lobot (which yes, thanks for pointing him out too) or any such part-machine, part-human or humanoid alien (such as Wat Tambor or General Grievous or Luke Skywalker) need a droid as a mediator between them and the rest of the Galaxy? None of these "cyborgs" needs a protocol droid to translate their sentences or explain their actions. Again, it just doesn't make sense.

C-3PO is clearly referring to "droids" but calling them by a more formal name, "cyborg". In a sense (from a certain POV!), a droid is a mechanical organism, with a circulatory (valve and piston) and nervous (computer brain and wiring) system with nutritive (oil and power) and rest ("shut down") requirements.

 

I suspect the real answer is "human-cyborg relations" just sounded real science fiction-y so Lucas went with it. Kind of like San Hill being part of the Intergalactic Banking Clan.

There's commerce and trade between galaxies in the Galaxy Far Far Away? First I've heard about that.

 

I think the real reason behind this line and why the term cyborg is not used again (not sure) is that Lucas got his terms mixed up again. Like he did with Parsec.

Also C3PO is a translator droid so his work would be far more that just translating between humans and droids he would also be translating between humans and aliens. That would probabaly be a far more important function for him as most droids seem to understand basic/english so they do not need a translator. Only when the droid has to report something to his master would C3PO be needed.

On a personal note, when I first saw ANH I thought C3PO said "Human-cyborg of relations". So C3PO called himself a human-cyborg and that his work was relations.

Regards
Nordom

 

Unless 'cyborg' is just an all encompassing term for anything non-Human(or any other species).

However, I suspect its just Lucas using a fancy term that doesn't quite make sense

 

Threepio is a protocol droid. That means he should work for humans in a diplomatic capacity, or as a general servant where he maintains etiquette, ie the correct way of doing things.

Therefore Threepio works in 'human relations' - the relations that his human owners have between themselves and others, be they other humans, aliens or droids.

He mentions cyborgs separately because beings with extensive cybernetics may consider themselves to be a separate species. They may look human but consider themselves to be a different species. So Threepio may work for humans or cyborgs in his capacity as a servant.


It's unlikely that Lucas used the wrong word and didn't fully understand what 'cyborg' meant. He'd made extensive use of the word droid and also used the word robot. So surely he wouldn't use yet another word to simply mean the same thing again.


Then again, Threepio may indeed be using the term cyborg as a general term. He could be speaking of solely human to human relations and then relations between machines and organics, or 'cyborg relations'.


However, the word cyborg in SW and the EU has the same meaning as we use it - a biological organism with mechanical parts (like General Grievous, say). So considering how precise Threepio is in most things (that being his job as a protocol droid after all) that must be the sense in which he meant it. So he indeed must have been speaking of his work being in human relations and cyborg relations, depending on who owned him.

 

Tell that to our friends "parsec" and "intergalactic".

 

C-3PO is not a droid and he's not a cyborg. C-3P0 is just a robot that has become self aware. Ash from "Alien" and Bishop from "Aliens" are androids or the word's informal version: droids. The Terminator and Darth Vader are cyborgs.

Lucas created a fictional story with a fictional lexicon and what that means is stop taking it so literally and just enjoy the escape from reality that he is offering.

 

Well, what got cut from ANH was the explanation that "speaking Bocce" was Tattooine back-country slang for dirty pillow-talk... As for the rest, well, they can't show that in a PG film, but... *cues Mos Eisley cantina music* ...If you know what I mean.

Seriously? Yes Threepio certainly is a droid. His job in human/cyborg relations is interfacing between between mechanical systems and human operators, demonstrated when he speaks to the Millenium Falcon on behalf of Han to diagnose the failure of the hyperdrive. He also tells Uncle Owen he can understand the language of moisture vaporators. That is what I always assumed "human/cyborg relations" was a needlessly high-falutin' way of expressing.

 

3P0 is a robot although I suppose one could call him an android. And R2 is definitely a robot.
The word droid is just a shortened version of android that Lucas used to give Star Wars some character.
Lucas even owns the word droid and doesn't that prove that it's just some goofy fictional word. I mean if the word droid was always a valid word for robot then how the hell could Lucas just buy it?

 

And the word 'droid' is used, in the GFFA, to describe what we properly call robots. Threepio is called one time and again. That is the word used in the films, the films are what we are discussing, and I will not be condescended to by a pedant telling me the etymology of 'android' in a thread that barely relates to the question.

 

I don't think the immolated one -- hell of name there, by the way -- was trying to be condescending. I think his point was that while Lucas has become one of American science fiction cinema's leading figures, he may not himself be as much of a sci fi geek as many of his fans. As a result, he may, for all the richness of the SW saga, actually have much less of a grasp of some of the terminology and concepts that go into science fiction. Parsec, intergalactic, cyborg - these terms all appear to be used inaccurately or to be given unique meanings within the context of Star Wars. Droid appears to be still another example as the conventional definition of android, from which the word droid is derived, is a robot or synthetic organism designed to look and act human (e.g. Star Trek: The Next Generation's Commander Data). It's a bit of a stretch to include C-3PO in this definition, and astromech droids, buzz droids, et cetera seem even less likely to legitimately be called droids, at least by the conventions of most non-SW sci fi.

 

The thread went off topic the moment people started saying Lucas is just ignorant about sci-fi but ultimately my point was don't take this stuff so literally because the words the characters use are part of a Star Wars lexicon which Lucas appears to have intentionally created.

Human-cyborg relations doesn't mean anything because it's just some silly made up crap like point 5 past lightspeed is some silly made up crap. Or is it .5 past lightspeed?

So it's not that I was being condescending. I was just trying to say who cares what human-cyborg relations means because Lucas created a world that uses different words than ours in an attempt to give said world some linguistic nuance. Kinda like how I know people who say a cicada is a locust.

 

How is it off-topic? People are curious about the line and try and work out what it means. The possibility that Lucas might have used incorrect terms is neither off-topic or insulting to Lucas. It might be a simple misstake, many sci-fi writers make them. Like with parsec, Lucas used the term to imply a measure of time, probably because he thought it sounded cool. It really is a measure of distance so Lucas made a simple error.

The term droid is used a lot but the term cyborg not so often, I only know of this instance. So perhaps Lucas realized he made a misstake and stopped using the term.

The movie migh take place in another galaxy but the intended audience is here, on earth. So we that watch it must be able to understand what is actually being said.
Lucas is using real words that have a defined meaning, if he uses them in a way that runs counter to how the word is normally used then it causes confusion and you can hardly blame the audience for that.

Ex say that C3PO instead said "ant-chair conflux". You could say that "ant" is SW-speak for human and "chair" is SW-speak for droid and "conflux" is SW-speak for relations. But in reality most people would just be confused and wonder what the **** he meant. Or take Queen Amidala in TPM, say that she would have been called the Hamburger of Naboo instead of Queen. Yes you could say that "Hamburger" is SW-speak for queen but again most people would just think it sounded odd. So you can not ignore what the word means here in our world.

You can certainly create a new meaning for words or make up new words but then you need to take some time to explain the new meaning.
Take the movie "The Golden compass", there they have the word Daemon, which is spoken like Demon. The word demon in our world often means an evil, supernatural being. It does not in this movie and so the movie need to take a little time to re-define the term so that the audience is not confused.

Star Trek does this all the time, with slightly mixed results.

Or take droids in SW, works fine because it becomes very clear quite quickly what it means. But to then use a different term that means the same thing is often confusing. Hence this thread.

Regards
Nordom

 

The thing is, Norton, that you offer no real explanation as to what human-cyborg relations means. You just used the thread to dismiss Lucas again.

The funny thing about parsec is that maybe Lucas did know it was a measurement of distance or maybe he didn't or maybe he just didn't care. Lucas wasn't writing for Popular Mechanics, he was writing a story about the human condition. It's funny how fans jump all over parsec when used as a measurement of time but then the same fans are perfectly willing to accept the word 'droid as a definition of R2 and all the other non-human shaped robots.

I hardly call that proof of Lucas' ignorance. However it does show you're in need of some Star Wars schooling because
C-3P0 touts his human-cyborg relations credentials in Episodes I, IV, V, and VI.

Norton, your above paragraphs are algood but the audience was already told that 3P0 was a protocal droid so why worry about what human-cyborg relations even means.

And see, Norton, that's the point. It doesn't matter what human-cyborg relations means. C-3P0 is just bragging about himself. C-3P0 is accredited in human-cyborgs relations and it doesn't matter what that is. C-3P0 is just a pretentious ass and that's the point. It's kinda like a person who introduces themself as Dr. Joseph M. Smith the III instead of just saying, "Hey, I'm Joe."

Sometimes I just have to wonder about you guys.