OMG - atomFILMS on SCI-FI CHANNEL

Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by JediTAC, Apr 30, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: AdamBertocci
  1. Digital_LlamaCH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2001
    star 4
    Besides, would it be fair to match up a 30+ minute serious fanfilm against a 2 minute short parody?

    Yeah, i think it would be totally fair. If the 30 minute serious fanfilm shows more hard work, quality, and a skill not seen in the 2 minute short parody, it deserves to win. Of course, if it's the other way around, and the 30 minute film is 2 guys hitting each other with colored sticks, then by all means the 2 minute film should walk away with the gold.

    Did the 30 minute film NEED to be 30 minutes? Should the 2 minute film taken a bit more time to get the joke across? It can all be looked at as judging the time the film uses to make its point and how well it did to justify that time allowance. Braveheart is a REALLY GOOD 3 1/2 hour film. Titanic probably could have been trimmed a bit. On the other side, the orignal cut of Lord of the Rings was 4 hours and 30 minutes. Personally, i'd kill to see that.

    Personally, looking at this thread, i see a trend developing that scares me: Atomfilms filmmakers vs. TFN filmmakers. PLEASE don't fall into that trap. I swear, LFL might actually want that to watch us self-destruct.

    This has nothing to do with fighting each other, this has to do with the attitude that LFL has taken with us and how it is WRONG. It is not about jealousy. Let's all remember that.

    Good luck to your films at Celebration, I hope it goes well for you.

    -Chris
  2. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I think that JT's realgripe (and mine) is being missed

    The voice over on the commerical stated, "see what Star Wars Fans do best."
    WHAT THEY DO BEST is what can be seen on websites such as TFN, FanFilmFX and the Star Wars FanFilm Database


    Spot on, brother
  3. DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 5
    Okay, first off I just wanted to explain how I feel about one point. This topic is bound to poll an emotional response, it always has done, and I guess it always will do. Everyone has an opinion, and they are never the same. This is a good topic for debate, so when I see Porthas make a perfectly reasonable comment, which didn't flame, and didn't insult, I take a very dim view of people attacking him. TAC your attitude and comment 'newbie' was frankly pathetic. Why can't you just argue a point using the logic you claim to have, instead of trying to suggest that becuase the person is new to the forum (or young - as you often use as a tool in your arsenal) that their opinion is any less valid than yours? Porthas expressed his opinion in a rational, non-confrontational way. With all your wisdom and age, you don't appear to be able to do that yet. Why is that?

    Anyway that aside...

    I actually agree with everything sqerl said.

    To explain this point I am going to talk about advertising for a little while :) I worked on a product a while ago that had such a huge market share (78%) that we realised trying to advertise/attract the remaining 22% was a waste of money. What we needed to do was run advertising that would 'grow the market' Basically we said 'World, you really need one of these' and the market grew, people bought one of these products, not always OUR version of that product, but by growing the market, our 78% share meant a lot more people where buying our product as well. The market grew so much, that we sold more product than we would have even if we had grabbed 100% of the old market.

    Okay, so for me the 'marketing problem' here is that people just DO NOT KNOW that fanfilms even exist. Two years ago I had no idea they existed. When I found out, I scoured the internet and very quickly found that TFN was the Daddy :) Put a Broken Allegaince, a KnightQuest, a Tydirium, a Seeds of Darkness etc up against the body of work at Atomsfilm, and it's pretty obvious (to me) where the good stuff is. So if someone wants to shine a spotlight on fanfilms (as a genre) that's great news for me, becuase that's free advertising, that's growing the market. And if you grow the market, you're going to get a lot more people eventually stumbling into TFN.

    Go to any search engine and type in fanfilms, and where does it take you? TFN :) The problem is you need to know the word 'fanfilms' exists in the first place. And that's where this atomfilms/scifi channel thing is good news. The TFN product is plenty good enough to win market share, once people know the market exists..

    The second part up for debate is the 'why isn't it us on the telly' argument. With the risk of sounding conceated TFN fanfilms have had a pretty good run in the spotlight. Look at what happened to Duality, would they trade all of that publicity for a brief showing on the Sci-Fi channel? Broken Allegiance was on primetime breakfast TV in Australia. primetime National TV, not specialist interest TV (SciFi Channel) Dark Skies was the same, it was on all five terrestrial TV channels, and in the biggest selling national newspaper. If it was publicity you are after, I wouldn't swap the publicity TFN fanfilms are getting with a slot of the SciFi channel for the world. The truth is fanfilms (our fanfilms) are getting out there, and getting out there in a big way. What happened with Duality was enourmous, it was a global recognition that fanfilms existed. You go over to StarWars.com (which has just changed it's layout BTW :) ) and they have a link with the word 'fanfilms' on it. Sure it takes you to atomfilms, but it's the word that's important. Once you know the word exists, if you are interested, you will end up at fanfilms.com/TFN theater and that's the key. If I was George Lucas and I really wanted to snub the 'real' fanfilm community, I would invent a new product category, I would call them StarMovies, or StarFlicks or something, not fanfilms. Becuase by calling them fanfilms, you are basically shining the spotlight on us. I'm sure this was a deliberate move. T
  4. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    damned good point there DM

    //shakes him by the hand//

    BTW Do you know how Cantina Band goes now :p
  5. Porthas Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Look, you can get excited and call me newbie or whatever. It still doesn't change the fact that you guys can say with a straight face "Serious Fan Film".

    "What you're doing here" is having a bit of fun and making little shorts about what you think would be cool to happen in the Star Wars universe. The "ordinary" person is going to watch your movie and have a small bit of fun with it - but they're certainly not going to take is seriously. And they shouldn't. After all, it's pretty obvious that you're blatantly sucking at the teat of GL's imagination.

    How could it possibly hurt for you to be happy for your fellow Star Wars fans, whether they're "TFN" or not.

    You know, that's just silly. If all you can do with a web-site is set yourself up against other Star Wars fans then I politely suggest you find something else to do with your time. And if you're making Star Wars fan films to paint a giant "Pay Attention To Me" sign on yourself...
  6. Porthas Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    That's a good way to look at it DaftMaul, though I still think you all are taking this a bit too seriously, no offense.

    What is the goal? To make fanfilms so well that GL will say, "You know, I think I'm going to hire so-n-so to make a Star Wars movie for me." ?

    I just don't see what's wrong with being cool to the Star Wars fans who's movies are going to be on the Sci Fi channel. It's all about Star Wars. :)
  7. Porthas Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    The voice over on the commerical stated, "see what Star Wars Fans do best."
    WHAT THEY DO BEST is what can be seen on websites such as TFN, FanFilmFX and the Star Wars FanFilm Database


    I haven't missed this point. This just comes across as petty, IMHO.

    I think Atom Films should be able to sit in the front of the bus right along with TFN or whoever... ;)
  8. Iyidin_Kyeimo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 3
    AMEN, DaftMaul. Very well put. To add to that I'd like to ask everybody to take a step back and look at what fanfilm makers have here. How many people visit TF.N a day? I expect it will not take very many days for a fan film to get more exposure than an average amateur filmmaker will EVER have. These visitors aren't just the general public either, they are Star Wars fans, people who are FAR more likely to WANT to see the films. We have it incredibly good, and while it's difficult to let such falsehoods pass, be thankful for what we have.

    Now re-read DM's post :p
  9. George Mezori SCIFI 3D Scifi 3D Forum

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 1999
    star 4
    I just read a story yesterday here at TFN about this and how they said only things based on the existing universe were allowed. I knew this about a year ago and purposely made our SON OF THE SUNS project at SCIFI 3D about the existing universe. No fan fiction.

    Their rules go far beyond this tho. No music is allowed from the films. No sound effects or voice overs from the films are allowed. There is that little sound pack they offer. You can do some voice if you use your own voice actor. I actually found a creative way around all of this.

    BUT then I found out they actually restrict the subject material also... only Documentaries and Mockumentaries/Comedies. WHY the hell did they do this? I can understand the part about copyrights and stuff.
  10. sqerl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2002
    star 1
    DaftMaul quote: I actually agree with everything sqerl said.

    Not only did he agree with me, he spelled sqerl correctly!! W00t!!

    All of you make some great points.. and there's quite a few threads that discuss many of these points. For me, it all comes down to this:
    I have always wanted to be a part of the Star Wars universe since the first time I saw it at the movies. I still remember the first time I saw it and how I felt inside. For me to develop the skills, have access to the software and resources needed and to actually create a "Star Wars-esque" type movie - with me in it! - heck - just to be able to create a movie with the same special effects you see in theaters today! Wow!! My head feels like its going to explode! There's no pressure involved in this - why? - because this is being done for fun! I don't expect anyone else to like my movie and I don't expect anyone else to see it. But to have the ability to share my work with others and possibly even have thousands of people view my work is above and beyond my wildest expectations! Now toss in the fact that LucasFilm is willing to back fanfilms if you play by their rules and whallah! You have given an opportunity of a lifetime to Star Wars fans around the world - all of this for a hobby! And there's no real risk! Use your camcorder... Use your PC... Use your time and you can get your 15 minutes of fame!

    Now look at what TF.N offers. TF.N provides yet another outlet for all this creativeness out there. Some people have the time, resources and ability to take fan films to an all new level. Again, for the millions of us that want to appear in a Star Wars but can't, here is a great way to achieve that dream in a different capacity.
    Do we take it seriously around here!? Sure we do! is it fun? You bet!

    The internet, digital media and advances in PC hardware/software has brought all of us into a new age. No longer is it just the Hollywood film houses that can make an entertaining medium. We're part of something bigger that expands the entertainment industry. We may be just a small niche market, but for anyone that cares to look at a bigger picture, we're all contibuting to a new age in entertainment. Its great to be a part of it and one day, we'll be able to tell our children's children, that we were there.

    LucasFilm is supporting the fanfilm community by offering a "legally-approved" method thru the Atomfilms contest. By not shutting down this site, they continue to support us. Perhaps one day, things will change... for right now, I have a movie to make and look forward to sharing it with fellow fans that enjoy the entertainment created by the fans, for the fans...
  11. Porthas Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Do we take it seriously around here!? Sure we do! is it fun? You bet!

    Don't get me wrong, it's cool to make the best fan films you can. And I think your whole attitude is cool, BTW. :)

    But, I don't think we should take this subject soooo seriously that we're begrudging other Star Wars fans anything, or pitting ourselves against other Star Wars fans.
  12. JediTAC Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 5
    But see, Porthas ... that is the point you are missing.

    NO ONE is begrudging or pitting themselves against other Star Wars Fans. The whole point to my original post (and as several other members agree) is that with the high quality of FanFilms that are primarily seen on TFN and the like, it seems a little unfair that such films are excluded from a contest like the atomFilms contest - which not only has Lucasfilm's support, but is going to be broadcast on world-wide cable.

    It's not an "over-the-top sense of self-importance" that many of these FanFilmmakers feel ... but the "seriousness" comes from a personal sense of seriousness and importance to create the best production one can to showcase to one's cooleagues, friends, mentors, etc. I doubt that most of the FanFilmmakers believe that they are going to achieve a high level of fame and fortune as a reslut of their FanFilms. However, I will point out to you that the attention and industry "recognition" that the CrewOfTwo recieved as a result of their landmark project, DUALITY has given people an additional inspiring star to reach for ... that, perhaps, their films will maybe jumpstart a career in visual effects ... or allow them to meet peopel they might not otherwise have the opportunity to meet.

    THIS is where the "seriousness" comes into play when many of the filmmakers are making their films. It is not a "seriousness" that their film will gain them mainstream accolades and/or a call from George Lucas or Dennis Muren .... it is a deep routed personal seriousness and devotion that drives them to want to do the BEST job they can.


    So, the whole point to the thread is .... when there is so much quality work being done, and it is apparently being ignored in this fashion ... it just seems a bit unfair. That's all.


    YES, the internet, TFN, fanfilms.com ... ALL are EXCELLENT, if not THE BEST medium for worldwide showcase of these quality FanFilms. No doubt about it. :) I was simply making a comment on another facet of "public recognition" which I thought was a bit "excluding" of some real quality works.


    Anyways .... ON WITH THE FANFILMMAKING. :D




    JediTAC
  13. scudknight Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2000
    star 3
    I'm not a FANBOY - :)

    I'm a Scud.

    I've never seen an atom film. Am I being overly biased against it? Not sure, I know my intentions are not ill willed for any atomfilmer's - I just have no interest in the efforts of others to pick up on what this community has worked so hard to achieve together.
    See, back when this place was small, the films were smaller, and then people started jumping on the bandwagon, and the films got better - the bar was raised. TFN was king and had only a little competition. Now others wish to raise the bar as far as advertising the films, so now it's places like TFN that have to fear (well not really but do you see my comparison?).
  14. Nathan PTH Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2000
    star 4
    Okay, two cents.

    We ALL knew when we got into fictional fan films that we wouldn't be able to get the kind of official exposure that other fan films, such as parodies and documentaries, could. Granted, some things Jim Ward said were a bit out of line, but as for this particular show . . . What's the point in whining about it?

    We KNEW that LFL couldn't officially acknowledge or draw attention to us, yet so many of us keep whining. Look, if you marry a slut, you can't get annoyed when she screws around behind your back. You knew what you were getting into.

    So did we. Can we get on with life now?
  15. PixelMagic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 5
    OK, truth be told, I don't care one way or the other about this. BUT, I would like to know when this airs on the Sci-FI channel, because I would very much like to watch it. I looked all over the web site and can't find an air date or time. Can someone please tell me?
  16. Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    I was going to try to stay out of this, and after reading Daft's post, I didn't think I was going to have to say anything, but since Duality has come up a couple of times, I suppose it's time for me to throw my two cents into the mix here.

    I agree with Sqerl and Porthas.

    I don't get where people feel that they're being treated unfairly -- it's as if, by making a fan film, film-makers (and, apparently, non-film makers, too) feel that they have some kind of entitlement when it comes to how Lucasfilm treats them. Lucasfilm doesn't owe us anyrhing. Where do we -- any of us -- come off asking for recognition? Did Lucasfilm ask us to make these films? No, they didn't.

    A while back, I had a homeless guy living in a sheltered area outside of my karate school. I was unaware that he'd been there -- he'd show up at night after I'd left and be gone in the morning by the time I arrived. I found out because I teach some of the Sheriffs in the area, and they'd apparently rousted him a few times. One day, the guy came into the studio -- he was extremely polite and well mannered, and asked if I would give him permission to stay out there. He told me that he'd swept out the area, and, with some tarps he'd procured, had covered some extra mats that I was storing to protect them from the elements. He knew that the Sheriffs knew me personally, and figured if he told them that he had my permission, they'd leave him alone. The problem was that, regardless of what he'd done to help me, I couldn't give him permission: a) I had no right to do so -- the land is owned by someone else, and had I said he could stay there and something had happened to him, it might have opened both myself and the land-owner up for litigation. b) Regardless of what he'd done, he had no right to expect me to feel in some way indebted to him. He did what he did without my request. It was nice of him, honorable, even, but I didn't ask him, and he couldn't, therefore, expect me to take his side in the matter.

    There are a couple of parallels here. a) The legal matters: There is a gigantic disparity between the way that parodies and fiction are looked at legally. If Lucasfilm gave us the same recognition that they're giving the folks at Atom, they'd be putting their copyrights in jeopardy. They would be setting a dangerous precident by doing so. They can do it with the parodies, however, because the right to parody someone is protected by the first amendment. It's what keeps political satirists safe. Why do you think that Paramount, Warner Bros. and the like have shut down fan-film makers of their properties in the past? Is it because they're mean-spirited, and don't want people to play with their property? No, of course not -- it's because they're vigorously protecting their copyrights -- they like to have fans, but they don't want to weaken the legal position they hold with respect to their property. Lucasfilm is being extremely progressive (and more than fair) by allowing us to get away with as much as they have. In my opinion, nobody should feel that they have the right to demand more from them.

    Which leads me to: b) this sense of entitlement. "Fair" simply does not enter into this argument. As I said before, Lucasfilm didn't ask any of us to make these films. We did them of our own accord, with no guarantee that they'd be seen by anybody -- and with the acknowledged threat that the hammer of Lucasfilm Legal may drop at any time and force us to remove these films from the web. That's the most that we can expect, folks. We're not entitled to play with these characters, situations, storylines or whatever else we're co-opting from Uncle George. We get whatever exposure we get by his good graces. But now, like nosy relatives that have overstayed our welcome, we're starting to poke around in the 'fridge like we live in the house.

    The Atomfilms contest is a great thing for all of us (unless we blow everything by continuing to whine about it). It brings attention to fan-films (and more people will, as a r
  17. JediTAC Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2000
    star 5
    Fair enough. :)


    Taking all of the good points rasied in the posts throughout this thread ... including those of Porthas, Daft, Rive and myself ... I think (with a few exceptions) that this has been a good discussion with valid points made on all sides of the line.


    The bottom line is that FanFilmmaking's basis IS in having fun. Every one enjoy's the hobby on his/her own level. Some receive a certain amount of acclaim and recognition, some do not. That's just the way the world works, I guess.


    I guess we'll all just have to wait and see the SCI-FI Channel special to see how it is presented.
    Hey, for all we know, they might even mention TheForce.Net. ;)





    The time has cometh to locketh this thread. :D
  18. AdmiralMowk Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2002
    star 2
    Just in case anyone cares, before you lock, I'd just like everyone to know that my imaginary fan film awards were a success. Many awards were given away, and to all the well deserving films. It was a fun and peaceful evening...until the Gremlins showed up. These little biters have been haunting my dreams for years. But, thanks to the quick work of a bearded Mark Hamill, who may or may not have actually been Harry Knowles, the disgusting Gremlins were easily taken care of. The I woke up.

    Okay...NOW you can lock the thread.

    Peace Out,

    Mark "The Admiral" Rosenthal
  19. Azeem TFN Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 1999
    star 4
    Well, it appears I agree with Nathan with more than Lord Rive.

    Everything Dave said is true. However, the comments by Jim Ward were directed to us. They should have just left the discussion about the non sanctioned films out of the interview rather than use it to slam us. Lynn Hale has always had nice words for us without endorsing what we do.

    And whether StarWars.com wants to admit or not, the fan film hobby started here with TROOPS. At least they invited Kevin to show that film at the celebration.
  20. Lord_Rive TFN Fan Films Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 4
    Jim Ward's comments are an entirely different issue. The guy took it upon himself to make a statement that flies in the face of information that has come out of Lucasfilm in the past, and it came out in a way that was disparaging to the people that make non-parody films. I wholeheartedly disagree with his statements and the way they came out.

    With respect to Troops being given a screening opportunity at Celebration, well, that makes sense -- as a parody, there's no legal risk to Lucasfilm to show it.
  21. TheRealFennShysa TFN FanFilms Staff

    VIP
    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    Fanfilms started waaay before TROOPS... let's not forget HARDWARE WARS in 1978, or the stuff I was doing in college back in 1986, or some of the other stuff that predates Rubio...

    Granted, he was one of the first to use the internet for distribution, and he made a great film (which is still one of my favorites), but he's not the first...

    Fenn
  22. Azeem TFN Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 1999
    star 4
    Fenn, I know that. I have Hardware Wars, and SW Remake and other.

    However, the hobby itself was started by TROOPS. Without Kevin taking that risk of distribution, none of this would exist.
  23. Macho Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    azeem, I think it would exist but it would have either started later than it did or the fan films would be under more control of Lucas
  24. Azeem TFN Staff, Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 1999
    star 4
    I still don't think it would have. Other genre fanfilms have been around even longer but only remained on the convention circuit (like the Quack movies).

    Most people here don't go to conventions and would never have even known about the hobby.
  25. PixelMagic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 5
    So is no one gonna tell me when this thing comes on TV?
Moderators: AdamBertocci
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.