ST On Kasdan...

Agree that there was some noiresque dialogue in ANH. But my sense is that that was ramped up in ESB. I agree that Brackett would be an obvious choice if that was the intent. Has Lucas gone on record as saying why he was interested in Brackett? I'd love to know. It seems obvious as to why, but it would be great to find confirmation from someone involved in the production.

 

From what I've read in Rinzlers making of book almost all of Bracketts draft was throw out. George gave her credit out of respect when she died during pre production. From what I remember her draft went in a differnt tone and direction than he wanted.

 

No disrespect to Brackett but Kasdan wrote most of the Empire's script, and the Raiders script, two classic Films, may be in the top ten all time films IMHO. and yodasbum if what you say is true in Rinzler's book that he says most of Brackett's script was thrown out then that further proves the point I am trying to make.

 

Yes, it is interesting to read the extracts of the story discussions in Rinzler's book . He really got into the mythology and characters, it was Kasdan who actually diapered with the idea that Yoda was not a warrior and no match for someone like Vader, and (I believe) he also didn't like the idea that anyone cold learn to use the Force.

I like that Kasdan is able to think like that - I may find his own original works to be boring for the most part, but he can clearly do good work with something like Star Wars.. In partnership with Abrams we should get some good stuff.

 

Wow, so ESB is the first film he has ever written?!

 

It's been a while since I read Brackett's ESB draft, but I remember thinking there were some recognizable elements of Brackett's screenplay in the final film.

In any case, the Writer's Guild really, really likes first writers. The first person to have a go at creating a screenplay typically gets an official credit. A couple of examples that come to mind are The Avengers--Whedon flat out stated that he threw out every word of Zan Penn's original script and Penn still got a credit. James Gunn also made noise about the original Guardians of the Galaxy writer getting too much credit, but who knows if there's any truth in that, or just egos (they shared the writing credit).

 

I just read Brackett's draft. The basic structure of her draft is very similar to the final draft. The biggest difference is that Vader is still not Luke's father in this draft. I was, however, surprised to find that the dialogue was not snappier in her draft. But then, the poor woman was dying of cancer when she wrote it. Apparently Lucas did not know this at the time.

Does anyone know how fleshed out the treatment she was working from was?

 

IIRC, the draft is very different, despite the similarities in structure.

 

On a coarse level, most of the elements are there. But how each set piece plays out is very different. And I don't think a single line of dialogue remains from her draft.

Some interesting differences in her draft:
Lando is a clone
Luke's father appears as a force ghost
Luke is knighted by Yoda (Minch in her draft), his dad and Ben
Bespin is called Hoth and has a habitable surface; cloud city is actually an orbital city
Vader still wants Luke to join him, but isn't Luke's father
Wampas attack the rebel base en masse

And finally, there is a crystal in Luke's saber with coordinates for Dagobah (referred to only as Bog Planet in her draft).

 

First one for which he got credit.

Really want a Special Edition with the wampa attack

 

The crystal with the Dagobah coordinates was something I thought could be recycled if the saber starting the quest rumours are true.

It could work in the same way as Leia's hologram does in ANH. Only the correct recipient would understand the full meaning of the message or coordinates, etc. We've seen in Rebels how Holcrons will open for force-users.

 

Ha! Satipo, that's why I added that one. Agree that they may have recycled that bit!

 

Some multiple Oscar nominated films are terrible.

See: The Artist, Out of Africa, Dead Poet's Society, etc.

 

I don't know. I think that's personal taste. At least when you're talking Oscar noms you've got some objective point of reference for the discussion beyond "His films suck"/"No they don't".

 

This is the only Kasdan movie I've seen that I didn't care for.

 

Meh, I'm in the minority. You're fine.

 

How so?

 

"Kasdan has been nominated for multiple Oscars" is a fact. Facts are objective.

 

Did you mean not objective?

The fact can't be denied, but the argument is dependent on the worth a person places on Oscars.

 

No, I meant objective. Seriously, where is there to go after "I don't like his films" or even "his film are well-written, per the craft of screenwriting", except by looking at critical response? The Academy is one such measure.

You may not think highly of the Academy's choices. OK, let's choose another metric--Rotten Tomatoes, say, or Metacritic. The point is, all these measures go beyond mere personal opinion, and they're the only way out of a tiresome back and forth with people stating blunt likes and dislikes.

 

Was it out of boredom?

 

Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic ARE personal opinions.

The only opinion that matters is a person's own opinion, regardless of what award committees and critics say. It may be tiresome to hear others opinions - but that is the reason this discussion board exists.