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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit One Canon - Merging Legends and the New Canon - TFA spoilers, very much so

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth , Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013

    Kind of fits because I was picturing Rax in my head as played by Hugo Weaving while reading Life Debt. :p
     
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  2. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2014

    I think there are eerie similarities:

    1. Rax and the Red Skull being entrusted with something (Jakku; HYDRA, originally part of the SS)
    2. Planning on betraying their superiors, or the organizations they worked for (Rax as the Operator, helping to cull the herd; Red Skull planning on attacking even Nazi targets).

    It remains to be seen if Rax is Force Sensitive, or something happens to him ala Red Skull (using the Super Soldier Serum on himself, transforming himself into the Red Skull; whether Snoke takes over Rax, ala possession ala Voldemort & Quirrell).
     
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  3. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Could you maybe explain a bit more? I'd love to put all 3 in my headcanon but I just can't see it fitting.
     
  4. jSarek

    jSarek VIP star 4 VIP

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    Feb 18, 2005
    This description is a thing of excellence.
     
  5. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Hey Sinrebirth how do you fit in the 2 Force Unleashed games :p
     
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  6. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I'm doing the Labyrinth of Evil question currently. It's a lot of writing.

    I'll do this one next.

    TFU actually helps with R1 in some respects.


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  7. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Oh OK. I hope I'm not bugging you it's just that I'm working on my own, similar One Canon project and was looking for some advice.
     
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  8. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    I would imagine that the reason we don't see Garm Bel Iblis at the meeting on Yavin 4 is because he's trying to track down plans for the station, not knowing about Jyn's message. By the time he learns of them, the plans are transmitted and transferred to the Tantive IV.
     
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  9. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    My concern wasn't Bel Iblis - it's the open-ended ending of TFU 2. My current headcanon is the dark side ending plus the Dark Apprentice joins the Inquisitors but slowly goes mad over time.
     
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  10. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    I was mostly referring to TFU 1.
     
  11. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Ah OK. Still though, what about Kota being alive? Does he not count as a Jedi? Even so, why wouldn't he have been in Rogue One then?
     
  12. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Sinrebirth how do you plan on integrating R1 with TFU and Dark Forces? Battlefront 2?

    I would love to see it.

    Also another question in Canon there is apparently a Sith shrine on Coruscant with an implication they ruled prior to the republic.

    How do you square that with Legends history?

    I'm not trying to be hostile I'm simply genuinely curious to see how you'll integrate those things.
     
  13. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Certainly.

    1. Labyrinth of Evil - The beginning of this book until the point where Yoda and Kenobi discuss having no knowledge of Darth Tyranus' identity.

    2. The Lost One until the close of the Yoda trilogy - The Sifo-Dyas arc on Felucia's moon occurs; Valorum faked his death to avoid being targeted by assassins on Coruscant and he returns when the situation calms down. The Yoda arc has to occur as Anakin is still on Coruscant, and then they head to Beldrerone.

    3. Labyrinth of Evil, Utapau arc, Bad Batch - by necessity the mission of Anakin and Kenobi to track down the Mechno-chair connection takes time, and it is useful as tracking down the pilot to Naos would take a certain amount of time. Insofar as much as they are diverted to Tythe later on, they are diverted to Utapau, to Anaxes, to Skako Minor, and so forth.

    4. The Quinlan Vos arc, parallel - Two liberties have to take place here, in that the Tholme fakes his death against Ventress (again, as he did against Aurra Sing, as he was suspected to have died at Geonosis), and that Vos arrives at Saluecami late in the five month siege, which was my retcon for the Battle of Jabiim also. Vos has to have decided not to abandon his pursuit of Darth Sidious due to what he has lost. This had the potential to elongate Labyrinth of Evil over months, but that is not so much an issue as a boon, as there is a lot of Clone Wars material to fit into affairs what with the Tyranus discussion in Labyrinth of Evil having to precede the Lost One generally. Equally however it was necessary to push the Republic Comics Ventress arc so it is after Witches of the Mist but before Massacre, a simple enough retcon.

    5. Skirmishes on Naos from Labyrinth of Evil, Nevlaan from the Micro Series, Belderone from Labyrinth of Evil to talk to Fa'ale Leh after her recovery, and on to the Third Battle of Tythe - Existing Legends pre-Clone Wars continuity from the New Essential Chronology covers these events, right until the point where Anakin and Obi-Wan discover that Coruscant is under siege.

    6. Ashoka aside - Ahsoka has to have met with Anakin before they jump towards Coruscant, by virtue of her being aware he was heading to save the Chancellor. Presumably Anakin was due to head to Mandalore in pursuit of Maul next, as also part of the general Tyranus-Sidious pursuit.

    In short. It goes without saying that the Republic Commando: Order 66 novel takes place parallel also, and one needs to accept that Palpatine and the Jedi allowed Depa and Barriss to participate in the Outer Rim Sieges; in likelihood as a further method of emptying Jedi from the Temple on Coruscant in anticipation of Order 66.

    ---

    Next week I'll pick up TFU/R1.

    As to the Sith shrine, and the rule of Coruscant, this is not so much implied as a given from the Propaganda book. It's not an immense issue, to be fair. Especially when the same information implies the Jedi rebuilt their Temple when they retook Coruscant.

    There are more Jedi and Sith than those at Ruusan even in the Bane books. The Army of Light and Brotherhood of Darkness are not all of the Jedi and Sith in the galaxy, but they do represent a rather large number.

    So if some Sith capture Coruscant it's not an incredible issue. Presently it's unclear how long they hold it, but that's all.


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  14. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    One thing to keep in mind that there's still an unexplored gap between the end of Vitiate and the rise of Darth Ruin and the new Sith Wars....like around 1000-1500 years. The Sith could have captured Coruscant, held it for longer than the brief occupation in TOR, built the Sith shrine, then the Jedi moved their temple over to that location.

    Besides, wasn't there an implication in NJO that the Jedi Temple had been built over some source of power?
     
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  15. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    =D=
     
  16. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 22, 2005
    The Tarkin novel outright states the Sith shrine was built at least before 5,000 BBY, so it doesn't seem to date from the circa 1,000 BBY Sith occupation: "Save for Sidious, no sentient being in close to five thousand years had set foot in the shrine." Maybe from the Hundred Year Darkness? (although they wouldn't have been called Sith yet) I'm not sure Naga Sadow's troops had enough time to set up a Sith shrine during the Great Hyperspace War.

    However, the same Tarkin novel also implies that the Jedi Temple's location being over the Sith shrine was only for the past 1,000 years: "That the Jedi had raised their Temple over the shrine had for a thousand years been one of the most closely guarded secrets of those Sith Lords who had perpetuated and implemented the revenge strategy of the Jedi Order's founders."

    Thus, the Jedi Temple location circa 1,000 BBY to present is NOT the same location as where the Jedi Temple was pre 1,000 BBY.

    This kind of mucks with Ki-Adi-Mundi's claim in 32 BBY that Chancellor Diath's words that were quoted by Sharad Hett were spoken "in this very room" of the Jedi Temple circa 4,000 BBY. However, this already became problematic when Darth Malgus destroyed the 4,000 BBY Jedi Temple in the Old Republic.
     
  17. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    That's why I'm playing it by ear. A Sith could have built one in the depths earlier than 1000 BBY, but we shall see.


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  18. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    That doesn't square with Sadow's campaigns they never fully conquered Coruscant.
     
  19. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Ajunta Pall could have set it up during the Hundred Year Darkness, then Sadow's troops might have "set foot" in it briefly during the Great Hyperspace War to account for Sidious' line that no one had set foot in it for 5,000 years.
     
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  20. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 6, 2007
    On the Valorum issue, how you reconcile the bitter and paranoid Valorum that meets with Bail and the calm, happy Valorum that meets with Yoda? One is old, haggard and ranting about how Palpatine betrayed him and orchestrated his downfall, the other is enjoying the afternoon sun on his garden terrace and reminiscing about old times with Yoda.
     
  21. instantdeath

    instantdeath Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jul 22, 2010
    Oh lord. If I wanted to I could get into a bats*** fanfic idea that involves the Legends continuity being rewritten by the ST timeline after Snoke fulfills what Palpatine was musing on in the Tarkin novel, using the dark side to alter reality itself (and Jacen, having merged with the Force after his death, subtly altering the timeline himself to prevent Snoke from completely taking over... and ensuring his daughter, Allana, known in the new timeline as Rey, is there to stop Snoke from doing all his evil Snoky things)...

    But I'm not quite that high tonight.
     
  22. Mira Grau

    Mira Grau Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 11, 2016
    On the Valorum issue, wookiepedia has droped his death for the ledgends article as well as TCW goes in both universes.
    Maybe it could be explained that there were rumors of his death for a time(or he even tried to fake his death) before he met Yoda.
     
  23. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    To be fair, Valorum was so calm and absently minded that I don't know what he was doing. He was simply retiring, and one would have expected he to be involved in the war effort.


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  24. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    'Secretly built', I meant.


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  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    One Canon - the Death Star Timeline

    Rogue Planet - Seinar passes the preliminary plans for the battlemoon to Tarkin, who passes them to Palpatine, claiming all of the credit.

    Attack of the Clones - Darth Tyranus returns said plans to Darth Sidious, who creates the belief within the Republic that the Separatists are creating this superweapon. During the war, efforts to research said weapon are performed by each of the Sith and their respective factions, resulting in the destruction of Equanus (Medstar Duology), various pocket superweapons that the Republic destroy (various), and experimentation using crystals from Christophsis in the place of Kyber crystals (Jedi Alliance DS game). A shadow war over crystals, large and small, Kyber or otherwise, occurs behind the scenes during the Clone Wars (Utapau Clone Wars arc, Battlefront II), including battles over scientists specialising in the field while the Republic, in the wake of the Second Battle of Geonosis, begins construction of the Death Star there (Catalyst).

    Revenge of the Sith - the skeleton of the Death Star is managed by Krennic, who periodically butts heads with Tarkin, himself who, after the Western Reaches are pacified and the massacre at Antar 4 occurs, is put in charge of the Death Star's defence. Jockeying around its construction occurs, including various sabotage attempts by isolated groups (Catalyst, Tarkin).

    Force Unleashed - Palpatine, in a pique of arrogance, seizes and takes the leaders of the new Rebel Alliance, initially those cells from Corellia, Chandrila and Alderaan - but later including cells from other sectors including the Onderon, Mon Calamari, Lothal, Bryx, Kwymar and Atrivis cells - to the Despayre system where the Death Star is currently under construction, two years before the Battle of Yavin. Bail, Leia, Mon, Rahm and Garm opt to keep secret the battlestation from the wider Rebellion and obtain solid data on its existence to present to the Senate, all the while amassing the strength to oppose the Empire, in order to prevent a panic. (TFU, Rebels, various)

    TFU II - Kamino is attacked by the Rebels but the net result of the 'capture of Darth Vader' is that the Rebels abandon the Dantooine base. Starkiller, Rahm Kota and Juno Eclipse depart the Rebellion after this point in time though they are instrumental in bringing Mon Calamari more into the Alliance. (Necessary conjecture).

    Rogue One - the Death Star comes into the knowledge of the wider Rebellion, having previously been kept to a small circle of Rebels so as to avoid widespread panic; a Rebellion within the Rebellion. As events prove, the Council fractures after Jedha is destroyed, and as the Death Star returns back to its hiding place at Despayre, Mon dispatches a single Lucrehulk to attempt to damage the superweapon.

    This follows Mon and Bail secretly proposing to send Leia, once the Tantive IV is repaired, to Tatooine to pick up Kenobi even as the Council refuses to proceed any further, as evidenced in the film. Mon herself even personally recruits an agent for the Danuta mission.

    Mon and Bail, coordinating various Rebels cells led by Kyle Katarn, Bria Tharen and others, had already began efforts to gather the various parts of the Death Star plans, having avoided striking at Scarif as a fortress world. When Rogue One goes, as one expects, rogue, portions of the Alliance military follow, including the Lothal cell, taking the Tantive IV with them before it can launch to collect the transmissions from Toprawa, which had combined various sources to create a full schematic - there was little point cancelling said missions across the galaxy as the Scarif mission, although it was a mission which itself would have seized a full schematic, as the Scarif attack was an extreme long shot, as were all of the other attacks across the galaxy; if any one mission failed at Scarif, Danuta, Toprawa, or so on, the Rebellion would not have had anything, and nor could Mon and Bail take it as a matter of faith that the Scarif tapes were complete.

    As serendipity would have it, all the missions succeeded and the Alliance had a full schematic to hand, though all of the attacks suffered terrible losses, save for the one at Danuta. Leia jumps to Toprawa and then to Tatooine, with Darth Vader in hot pursuit, as the Death Star returns from Jedha to Despayre, completing the first full weapons test. (Death Star, Dark Forces, Rebel Dawn, and so forth)


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