Lit One Canon - Merging Legends and the New Canon - TFA spoilers, very much so

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    I'm pretty sure it'll fit fine. If Vader creates his own lightsaber later than shown in Legends, we just say that Palpatine gave him a weapon and he made his own one later on. We have had lightsaber retcons all over thanks to Luke and Marvel and so forth.


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  2. PCCViking Force Ghost

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    Plus, I'm sure Vader would believe one can never have too many lightsabers.
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  3. spicer Jedi Master

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    For what it's worth, the period set 1-2 years after ROTS was one of the least explored in Legends, and when it was it didn't focus heavily on Vader. An exception to that are the "Darth Vader and..." and "Purge" comics, but none of them were very influential outside said stories. Another plus may be considered the partial canonization of The Rise of Darth Vader thanks to Tarkin. In any case, if Sinrebirth could manage with the post-ROTJ canon and Legends stories, this should be a piece of cake ;)
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  4. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    I'm really not concerned about anything Dark Times, in my mind.

    I've a full narrative from 4 to 7 ABY for Legends and canon, but I'm unhappy with the SSD issue. But I'll be posting it up soon no doubt.


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  5. spicer Jedi Master

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    @Sinrebirth I'm not kidding when I say I'm very relieved to hea...I mean read those words from you. Dark Times means so much to me. And yes, I know I sound like a broken record about those comics :p
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  6. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

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    In the Republic Commando novels Etain used the force to speed up her pregnancy; Six months, I believe.
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  7. Force Smuggler Force Ghost

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  8. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    So who wants my One Canon between RotJ and Crimson Empire II...? I'm still unhappy with the 13 SSDs but shrug.


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  9. PCCViking Force Ghost

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    I'm interested.
  10. Zohar Jedi Youngling

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    Dammit Sinrebirth, stop teasing us and post the damn thing already! [face_mischief]
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  11. Darkslayer Force Ghost

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    @Sinrebirth I'm interested in what you do with the Thrawn trilogy
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  12. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    One Canon - from Endor through Jakku to the final collapse of the Galactic Empire

    Show Spoiler
    Prior to the Battle of Endor, the Empire fields 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers, and 13 Star Dreadnaughts. (Uprising, Life Debt).

    At Endor, of the 33 Imperial Star Destroyers present, 17 withdraw to Annaj under the orders of Admiral Rae Sloane, latest in the line of command after Admiral Firmus Piett and his immediate successors. However, confusion aboard the Chimaeraby the Captain aboard results in a disjointed retreat, abandoning the Eleemonsynary and Accuser, and Sloane and the Vigilance (and Makati on the Steadfast), retreat separately beside other vessels such as the Virulence and the damaged Redoubtable. Of the 17 Star Destroyers at Annaj, Admirals Harrsk and Prittick's squabbling, including the nullification of Captain Pellaeon's command, results in the Whirlwind, Firestorm and Retaliator heading into the Deep Core, and the Stalker and Thunderflare return back to the Elrood Sector too. The remaining twelve Star Destroyers - the Judicator, Chimaera, Relentless. Deaths Head, Nemesis, Stormhawk, Inexorable, Bellicose, Tyrant, Avenger, Subjugator, Peremptory - retreat to Yag'Dhul. (Lost Stars, Guide to Warfare, Black Fleet Crisis) [I have a whole aside about Death Squadron which I can share - the Subjugator is new canon and nudged the Steadfast out of the 17 under Pellaeon, which to be fair makes sense that Makati never pulled back to Annaj as Prittick would not be in charge if so.].

    After Endor, the Empire implodes, and between the Ssi-Ruuvi invasion, the Nagai-Tof War, and Operation Cinder, the Alliance Fleet is required to rush forward to defend the Galaxy from the depredations of those who would take advantage, fighting at Bakura, Iskalon, Fondor, Zeltros, Naboo and Commenor. This takes place even as warlords carve up the Empire. The New Republic capital is settled on Chandrila, and Hosnian Prime, Recopia and Corellia fall out of direct Imperial control, with fighting breaking out on Coruscant that swiftly becomes an insurgency. (Truce at Bakura, Marvel 100's, Shattered Empire, Aftermath).

    Three months after Endor, Imperials gather on Akiva to discuss secretly reunifying the Empire before the New Republic is too heavily entrenched. Only Rae Sloane, the Admiral who formally recalled for the retreat from Endor (as opposed to Captain Pellaeon who did so illegally), survives the tumult, becoming Grand Admiral, initially appearing to be no more legitimate than any of the warlords, but with the behind-the-scenes assistance of Fleet Admiral Rax, rapidly becomes the de facto leader of the Imperial military. This is in opposition to Mas Amedda, generally considered the de jure leader due to his term as Vice Chancellor to Palpatine, putting him ahead of Sate Pestage in terms of legitimacy, despite the two being Grand Viziers. Each historically dovetailed between the Empire and Dark Empire in the Deep Core before being equally isolated on Coruscant (Aftermath).

    Of the Star Dreadnaughts, Executor is lost at Endor, and the Eclipse's destruction is faked. The Ravager is hidden away by Fleet Admiral Rax, and Annihilator is seized by pirates. In the next five months after Endor, the Arbitrator has a hyperspace accident, which may be one of the three Super Star Destroyers to be included in Black Sword Command, with the Intimidator and Aramadia not included in the 13 Star Dreadnaughts on Imperial books as new construction.

    Of the remainder, five are destroyed, two before Endor, being the Vengeance and Terror, and two after Endor, being the Annihilator, an Executor-class, lost at the second Battle of Kuat which swiftly followed the first one, the Guardian, which was in-fact crippled in the Solleux system, and the Iron Fist is believed destroyed (Balance of Power, Rebel Assault II, Empire of War, Bounty Hunter War 3 includes the first battle of Kuat, the presumed loss of the Iron Fist is a necessary implication of having to move Tatooine Ghost before Ben's birth).

    Of the remainder, three are captured, or surrendered. A Bellator is captured during the first battle of Kuat. The Aggressor and Reaper are due to be handed over by their respective governments which are due to join the New Republic in full, similarly with the Corellian system, which joins the New Republic with Imperials still in-charge Presumed, retcons, see below, taking into account that three SSDs were captured or surrendered).

    In the meantime the Intimidator, Aramadia, Vengeance (as in the Vengeance-class), Whelm, Aurora and Eclipse, (as in the Eclipse-class), are under construction, though the former two are shifted to N'Zoth and the latter is shifted to Kuat later. The Vengeance herself is finished and released from Kuat Drive Yards to Jerec.

    Five months after the Battle of Endor, 75% of the Star Destroyers the Empire had were gone - destroyed, captured. Of those 75%, a full quarter have curious reports in place, suggesting that they have not been lost. (Life Debt).

    75% of 25,000 is 18,750 Star Destroyers. 25% of 18,750 is 4,687. So, minus the hundreds of Star Destroyers at Jakku, there are potentially four thousand Star Destroyers hidden away. (Life Debt, though Empire's End appears to take a more minimalist view of affairs).

    Similarly, split among the Empire's legitimate territories are 6,250 Star Destroyers, over 50% of the Galaxy, with 20% of the systems going Warlord or Independent and 30% of the systems joining the New Republic. Many more systems are poised on the edge of joining at the point when Grand Admiral Rae Sloane offers a peace treaty to the New Republic on Chandrila. (Rogue Squadron, Life Debt).

    In the intervening month Grand Vizier Pestage prepares to take the reins of the Empire, publicly doing so when Rae is lost during the attack on Chandrila which restarts the war. Similarly Amedda is isolated from view by Rax. Rax withdraws the hundreds of Star Destroyers he has gathered to Jakku, leaving Pestage as the official public presence. Half the remaining assets of the Empire follow Coruscant when Sloane is lost, with the Empire successfully reclaiming Kuat even as Grand Admiral Syn attempts to reinforce Kashyyyk and fails. Various systems in the midst of joining the New Republic withdraw from negotiations due to the attack on Chandrila, including Sartinyanan, Corella and Gargon. Phantom Squadron is grounded due to the political considerations of Wedge going rogue, but Rogue Squadron continues. (Recon & Report: The Journey to Coruscant, for the half figure, and necessary retcons which simply acknowledges that the Empire reclaimed Kuat after the Bounty Hunter mess in Legends anyway, and knits together Syn heading to Kashyyyk to reorganise the surviving Imperial presence on the planet).

    The Battle of Brentaal follows the Battle of Kashyyyk, and the removal of Pestage by a Cabal of Imperial Advisors is followed by the removal of the Cabal by Iceheart, who fends off a coup by the Central Moffs Committee and the ersatz Prophets of the Dark Side, even as the Cuitric Hegemony becomes yet another warlord state. This results in Grand Admiral Grunger attacking Corellia and the Empire recapturing Corellia - in one turnabout after another - in the following three months after the attack on Chandrila. Similarly, Milagro falls after a three month siege, and Jerec is killed; his Super Star Destroyer heads into the Deep Core. The lead Alliance fleet is shredded at Mindor, resulting in Rogue Squadron needing to be rebuilt and Luke resigning as General. During this timeframe it becomes increasingly apparent that Admirals such as Zsinj and Teradoc remain only nominally loyal to Coruscant, however Iceheart manages to reinforce the Core and even stabilise Coruscant. (X-wing comics, GoDV, Dark Forces, Shadows of Mindor).

    Ten months after the Battle of Endor, the New Republic rebuilds Rogue Squadron and sets its sights on Blackmoon, in the Pyria system. A conquest follows during a second attempt, and the New Republic, extending around the Core, skirmishes with Zsinj as he becomes clearly more Warlord than Loyalist. Coruscant falls as the year comes to an end, but it purely becomes a planet that has an Imperial insurgency rather than a Rebel one by the time of the Battle of Jakku; it is not a true New Republic world though it's initial fleet presence has been erased; it remains occupied in part. The Imperial Palace is not immediately secured, and Amedda, isolated within it, is unaware of the true extent of the battle. However, the blow at Coruscant sees Imperial world's throughout the Core and Colonies surrender, and a weak Imperial blockade of Chandrila is lifted; but still, even now, the Grand Admiral who struck at Chandrila is not found, and support for Mon Mothma crumbles - the Imperial remnant which matters to the Senate has not been defeated; Coruscant is immaterial to the Senate, which votes to move to Nakadia even as portions of the Provisional Council settle on Coruscant. (Rogue Squadron, Wedge's Gamble, Krytos Trap) [The Thrawn trilogy tells us that the full government did not settle on Coruscant until just before the trilogy began.].

    Iceheart flees Coruscant and the fighting on Coruscant, previously an insurgency, intensifies for ten days after the devastation wrought by the Lusankya. During this timeframe Ackbar, Wedge and portions of the New Republic fleet are rotated back to Chandrila to cover the Senate being moved to Nakadia, even as Wexley and her crew finally connect the dots between Mercurial Swift and Sloane. Rogue Squadron chases down insurgents on Coruscant and a fleet sets off for Zsinj's space which Han Solo will join, while five fleets are gathered, sufficient to defend Chandrila, Nakadia and then deploy three times the Endor fleet to Jakku... When the Senate eventually agrees to deploy. The Battle of Jakku destroys hundreds of Star Destroyers and destroys the Shadow Council; as it was always intended to. With such a public defeat, and the insurgency on Coruscant crippled from within, Mas Amedda sues for peace even as engagements between the New Republic and Warlord States, who do not sign the treaty, step up. Mas Amedda is able to do this now when he could not seven months ago for the simple reason that he is the last man standing. Pestage, the Cabal and the Grand Moffs are gone thanks to Iceheart, and the many of his rivals are dead thanks to Rax. Meanwhile, a new independent state is also created at Thyferra, tying the hands of the New Republic and resulting in the Bacta War when Wedge and Rogue Squadron go rogue. (Empire's End, Lost Stars, Bacta War).

    Alongside the month long Bacta War and Han Solo joining the hunt for Zsinj, various Imperial officials come back together in the Ruling Council to manage the annexation of the Empire. Headed by Ars Dangor from Orinda, they plot to restart the war, relying upon construction at Kuat. The Battle of Jakku itself drags on, committing much of the New Republic navy. Coruscant being the hub of many trade routes requires the New Republic to maintain a government presence that grows over time, and Mon Mothma shifts her office from Chandrila to there, although the New Republic Senate will not follow her for some time. Ben Solo is hidden away to prevent him being targeted, even as Leia focuses on bringing the Hapans into the New Republic, negotiations which bear fruit five months after the Battle of Jakku began, the Hapans bringing an end to Zsinj in swift order.

    Han and Leia, whose relationship had drifted apart due to the strain Zsinj placed upon it, have their official and public wedding, initially with the first attempt having been disrupted by Imperial assassins in the wake of the coup attempt by the Central Committee of Grand Moffs, in essence renewing their vows. In the meantime Thrawn returns to the Imperial Space, and the Dark Empire draws together twelve Star Dreadnaughts, including the Vengeance originally constructed for Jerec. However conflict between the Empire Proper and the New Republic has by and large been over, for the most part, even if the New Republic Defence Force does not acknowledge it for the most part - the Empire remains an enemy in their eyes. But being as the Galactic Concordance has not been signed with the Dark Empire, various warlords, the Empire of the Hand, or the First Order, the war is not over practically (Empire's End, Bacta War, Wraith Squadron, Iron Fist, Solo Command, Courtship of Princess Leia).

    In the wake of Zsinj's death the Empire invades his space, skirmishing with Warlord Teradoc, and resulting in the New Republic Navy, fully freed up from Jakku, exerting itself against all three elements; Zsinj's remnant, Imperial forces led by Admiral Rogriss, and Teradoc himself. The requisite annexations of Imperial Space occur even as the New Republic seizes much of Zsinj and Teradoc's territory, including Kuat. Even Anaxes surrenders and the last Star Dreadnaught in Imperial hands heads into the Deep Core, giving the Dark Empire twelve such vessels. The net result of these skirmishes is that the Empire settles with twenty warlord sectors within its territory but a quarter of the galaxy swears loyalty to the rump Empire. But even men and women who have fought the Empire since the Galactic Concordance was signed, like Han Solo himself, consider that the war is over. Thrawn takes advantage of that misconception and arranges it so that he 'goes rogue' with the last twelve Imperial Star Destroyers left in Death Squadron, meanwhile the rest of the Empire complies with the Galactic Concordance. As the year after the Concordance was signed comes to a close, that peace appears to reign, but Thrawn has already raised tensions by striking at Sluis Van. [Jacen and Jaina are born no less than 9 months after Courtship, which takes place five months after Jakku. As such the Thrawn Trilogy, which covers four months, according to Legends, has to end fourteen months after the Battle of Jakku, and thus the Battle of Obroa-Skai takes place in the tenth month after Jakku, with Thrawn thus dying two months into 6 ABY].

    A month into the year after the Battle of Jakku the Empire Proper breaches the Galactic Concordance when Thrawn secures the Katana Fleet and a clone army, and in a mere month doubles Imperial territory before Thrawn is killed and the clone cylinders at Wayland are lost. A month after Thrawn dies, the Dark Empire smashes the New Republic, but is defeated shortly after Anakin Solo's birth, with the year ending with the collapse of the Crimson Empire at the Battle of Ord Cantrell. The Galactic Concordance reasserts itself as the Empire collapses entirely, with isolated remnants remaining across a third of the Galaxy, but now it stretches across the breadth of the Imperial territory and many warlords are either dead or considered subject to to the Concordance. Efforts against isolated Imperials, pirate groups and the like are considered nothing more than policing actions for the following year. (Isard's Revenge, Dark Empire Saga and Crimson Empire I and II).



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  13. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    I'll do a second post or that one will break.

    Remember that this is on the basis that everything between 4 ABY and 7.5 ABY in Legends is shuffled into the gap between 4 and 5 ABY - stealing the retcons from Clone Wars which saw 30 months crammed into 7 weeks. Internal timelines are respected as best as possible but in essence you have this on your bookcase.

    Tatooine Ghost gets a nudge due to it being about Leia having children.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]


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  14. SWpants Jedi Grand Master

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    Let me know if I'm understanding this correctly:

    Leia learns of her father's past
    Grand Admiral Sloane
    Ben is born
    H/L have a rocky relationship because of Zsinj
    Isolder tries to butt in because a separation is on the rise; Han wreaks havoc. Leia talks of maybe no babes because of behaviors Ben's already showing.
    Grand Admiral Thrawn
    Battle of Jakku
    Twins are born and Legends-only stuff 'til Anakin is born
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  15. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    More or less. You're highlighting my least favourite thing with this; you kinda need to move Tatooine Ghost to before Ben is conceived. Unless Ben was an accident, and Leia and Han are now thinking about having kids with actual planning.

    But it's no messier than a GoDV wedding that went wrong, I suppose.

    Actually it's everything Legends-only stuff until Bloodline. You'll notice the timeline has Dark Empire end in 7 ABY now. The NJO books also erroneously are stated to have taken 5 years and they took 4. So the Vong War starts in 21 ABY and ends in 25 ABY, leaving three years between it and Bloodline in 28 ABY.


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  16. SWpants Jedi Grand Master

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    *shudders at the GoDV wedding*

    Thanks for the clarification!
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  17. Contessa Jedi Master

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    lol Every retcon looks better when you can hold it up to the GODV wedding mess.
  18. Darth_Garak Jedi Master

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    Didn't read GODV, so I don't know what's messy about the wedding. Is it also a Mofference? Do they exchange Dark Vows (to go with the Dark Greeting)?
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  19. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    I'm not up to date on this thread at all, so I'm not sure how foggy the window is beyond moving events on the timeline, but Children of the Jedi presented a similar character arc as Tatooine Ghost exploring Leia's fear of her children taking after their grandfather after they were born.

    I haven't read Tatooine Ghost in a few years so I'm not sure how well it works if you twist the character arc in that way, where Leia isn't personally anti-natalist, but none the less is still haunted by that fear, or how satisfactory a solution that would be.
  20. Darkslayer Force Ghost

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    @Sinrebirth With respect, I don't know how one could reconcile Dark Empire with the rest of the saga. Sidious coming back to life and Luke turning to the dark side?
  21. Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC

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    It segues more than nearly with the themes of Revenge of the Sith in my eyes, and the whole clones bend of the films and EU. So I feel as if it fits fairly well. That and it inspires the Second Imperium, a pet love of mine.

    As to Luke, there's a lot of debate as to how far he fell. Some consider it out of character for Luke to go into exile in the sequels, some consider it out of character to him to kill Lumiya out of vengeance. So your mileage will vary I guess.


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  22. Darkslayer Force Ghost

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    All 3 of those I consider out of character. Unfortunately it seemed in my eyes at least that George is the only LFL guy who gets Luke.
  23. sidv88 Jedi Master

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    I wouldn't be surprised if future Disney canon just repeats the worst elements of the old EU again (like the way they used Jacen Solo and multiple superweapons in TFA). Maybe they'll reveal that Luke turned to the dark side, killed all the Knights of Ren except Kylo, and then put himself into exile. So all of the out-of-character elements of EU Luke combined into one canonical package :p
  24. Daneira Jedi Knight

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    I don't think Luke turning to the dark side in Dark Empire was a big deal. He joined the Empire, but only to sabotage their plans. He was still on the side of the good guys the whole time.


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  25. PCCViking Force Ghost

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    Given what someone pointed out about a conversation between Rax and Palpatine in a flashback scene in Empire's End, I think it could fit with Snoke posing as Palpatine. After all, Mara Jade had her doubts that it was Palpatine, and I think even Lumiya expressed skepticism.