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Lit One Canon - Merging Legends and the New Canon - TFA spoilers, very much so

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    The Unknown Regions were unknown to the Jedi in ToR too. They likely didn’t have access to it.


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  2. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    Hey Sinre, do you have already some ideas about how to keep DOTJ, the settling of Tython by the Tho Yor and the Force Wars in line with Ahch-To and the first Jedi Temple? I'm wondering what happened, because of the buildings of the Jedi on that planet, the architecture and what else is left there of them, are looking and feeling much more ancient then what i guess is left on Tython during the times of TFA and TLJ.
     
  3. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 19, 1999
    I really want to see how Sinre "I Survived Reading Apocalypse" Birth factors TLJ into this.
     
  4. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Regarding Ackbar:

    Since we never saw his death on-screen in The New Jedi Order, maybe his death was faked in preparation for helping Leia with the Resistance in TFA and TLJ? ;)
     
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  5. Darth Caliban

    Darth Caliban Jedi Knight star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    It was a trap
     
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  6. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    We only saw the Je'daii on Tython in Dawn of the Jedi. We are told in TOR that the Jedi were formed on Tython, but there is no temple by them, just Je'daii temples. Satele Shan builds a new temple that new players use--there's no pre-existing first Jedi Temple.

    I will say the Jedi left Tython and built the first actual Jedi Temple on Ahch-to.
     
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  7. spicer

    spicer Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2012
    I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I've got an idea how to answer it. The Temple on Ahch-To is the first JEDI Temple. The temples on Tython as seen in DOTJ are JE'DAII temples. Not quite the same. As for the architecture, you can explain that as due to building materials and equipment available (i.e. more technology was at disposal on Tython), or stylistic choice (i.e. the Temple on Ahch-To is intentionally built the way it is, regardless if it could have been more sophisticated).

    Ninja'd by sidv88. I tried to post this 10 minutes ago, but I got an error message...
     
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  8. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I had long assumed the Temple on Ahch-To was the first Jedi one, and the Je’daii one differed. Clearly the Jedi knew more of the Unknown Regions once upon a time but not by the time Satele rediscovers Tython.

    RE: Ackbar, hardly a spoiler as he was in Bloodline and TFA - the Vong were poised to win the war. Ackbar faking his death in those circumstances seems perfectly acceptable - otherwise if they lost the entire High Command is known (and most of it at the invasion of Yuuzhan’tar). After the Battle is win, it is revealed as subterfuge, and Leia of course convinces him to join the Resistance.

    The Vong War has to predate Bloodline, if we shuffle forward Coruscant falling in Legends due to when it fell in Canon and so forth.

    TFA and TLJ aren’t impossible to struggle with as the same answer prevails - Jacen changed time. He either did it at the end of Invincible, or the moment he saw Abeloth and made his decision. Either way it knocks LotF onwards out of the timeline... or TFA onwards out, depending on your preferences.

    Personally, I presently allow for the time jump forward 5 years thanks to the Coruscant/Vong War move to end the NJO in 25 ABY, plenty of time for the build up to TFA in 34 ABY.

    Of less clarity for me is whether I can accept the references to 37 ABY instead of 40 ABY throughout LotF to pull forward Jacen’s death to 32 ABY.........

    ... but it’s still unclear when Luke and Ben lost the New Jedi Order. I quite like the idea that the Remnant swelled from Centrist secessions at the same time as Corellia and others seceded, but the Moffs were marginalised by the newcomers when there were so few left. That and Jacen easily killed fifty Jedi during his rein; enough that Ben’s subsequent treachery would indeed decimate the Order. It also makes Lumiya an (unwitting?) agent of Snoke... but that’s just fun coincidences and until we know exactly when Luke left I won’t push it.

    Presently - everything up to the end of NJO works just fine (I even have a quote by Finn about alien invasions to rely on), and after that it’s down to personal preference. Anything after Invincible doesn’t (and shouldn’t) fit, but between Dark Nest and Invincible.

    The time constraints being largely set by the ages of Jacen, Jaina, Anakin, Ben and Allana...


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  9. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Finn has a quote about an alien invasion? Where? When?
     
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  10. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    When he was within the First Order, referred to in Before the Awakening.

    There were mandatory morale sessions twice a day, when everyone was required to stop what they were doing and direct their attention to the nearest holoprojector to watch a recorded speech from High Command, most often from General Hux himself. Those would be interspersed with news feeds showing the deplorable conditions throughout the Republic: the famines on Ibaar and Adarlon, the brutal suppression of the population of Balamak, the unchecked alien advances throughout the Outer Rim.

    Vague, but I could choose to interpret at least some of the propaganda here as based on truth. I expect some would have had root in fact, somewhere. An amusing stretch if you wish.


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  11. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I think I remember that. Works for me.
     
  12. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    So as the release of TLJ recedes into history, I have to say that while I'm sure Sinre will weather this as he does everything else, I'm personally feeling extra-content with the fact that I don't like to consider DNT through FOTJ canon to ANY continuity.
     
  13. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Well you would be doing well, being as Jacen’s arc pushes itself out of the main continuity anyway.

    TLJ did less change than Bomber Command, actually.

    TFA already requires us to lean on Jacen having changed time as Han died. With everything else in TLJ, it leans even further on the concept that Jacen changed time. So that reinforces the point.

    What’s more of note is that Bomber Command confirms that Borosk belongs to the First Order, but Cassander did not. The Imperial Remnant in the old canon expands to the Inner Rim, which includes Cassander, in 35 ABY I.e. during the Dark Nest Trilogy.

    While I was anticipating the secessions in LotF to segue with the secessions by some of the Centrists, seemingly this is not the case even if I nudge forward DNT to 29 ABY and LotF to 31 ABY (by the time gained with Coruscant falling in 5 ABY and the NJO being four years long not five).

    So the timeline has to split during the DNT... which makes more sense being as the fact that the identity of the Dark Man was in flux by Betrayal... unless the Empire was driven back to 8 sectors by the end of LotF... which could be implied by the fact that none of the new territories of the Remnant after the NJO are mentioned during Jag Fel’s rein as participating in the Civil War following Daala’s coup attempt... so what can I say?

    A bit of maybe if I really want LotF to predate TFA, but it’s more unlikely being as the massacre at Luke’s Temple seems kinda unlikely to have taken place two years prior to TFA.........

    So let’s roll with the likelihood that everything post-NJO is taken out of sync by Jacen, but for now, it should roll neatly to the end of TSW (especially as the FO going public after the Chiss and Killiks are defanged is perfect), but less clearly to the end of LotF.

    FotJ and Legacy are confirmed to be in the alternate reality that Jacen creates.


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  14. SWpants

    SWpants Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 28, 2004
    As annoying as it is that you say that, Jacen retconning everything in-Legends-canon is even worse. So it works.

    As a side note, I know that Kaiburr Crystals have been spoken of before, but I'm rereading LOTF: Inferno and I am just thrilled that a lot from Legends is actually considered canon (even if spellings are different)
     
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  15. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
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  16. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    Depending on whether Malachor V was Malachor from Rebels, and not Malachor II, or III...


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  17. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    You think some canon guide or atlas would have clarified this by now.

    Edit: according to wookieepedia, legends m5 has 1 moon, but canon m has 2. So they aren't the same...

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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  18. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Immortal Mod-King of the EUC, RPF and SWC star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Nov 15, 2004
    I’m inclined to consider it to be Malachor IV maybe, or maybe the outermost Malachor, if there is a sixth.


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  19. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 14, 2006
    Not sure where to put this...

    Michael Stackpole has expressed an interest in writing about the destruction of Luke's Jedi prior to TFA and TLJ and perhaps bringing in Corran Horn.

    Funny how I headcanon his existence into new Canon along with others (i.e. Kyp Durron, Cilghal, Iella Wessiri) less then a week after seeing TLJ and suddenly it has come about.
     
  20. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Stackpole would make me feel nostalgic.
     
  21. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    I would switch it around: the dark side ending leads to Legend (Jedi Order is rebuilt and lasts longer, but the Sith continue to linger past Palpatine's death: the Lost Tribe, the One Sith, Lumiya, plus the Vong invasion); while the light side leads to canon (Jedi Order isn't around as long, but Sith die at Endor with only Snoke, Kylo and the Knights of Ren post-Endor).
     
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  22. Xander Vos

    Xander Vos Jedi Knight star 2

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    Aug 3, 2013
    Would be F-ing brilliant. One of the most underrated Star Wars authors and criminally under-used. Wasn't his last contribution during the NJO?

    If he had to, he could bring Horn in as a kid at the Academy, OR as a non-Force Sensitive fighter pilot. I can't really see the Horn we know and love being there in full force, but wouldn't mind a "Thrawn-esque" re-write of the X-Wing series/I, Jedi.

    Where did you see this?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  23. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    Can't wait to see Ben laugh at Corran's lack of telekinesis while Ben himself freezes blaster bolts in the air.

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  24. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    seems like a bad move on Stackpole's part since Corran is either gonna be a goner or a Knight of Ren coming out of that

    his last SW novel was published almost 18 years ago, the NJO Dark Tide duology from early 2000
     
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  25. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    Also, I'm not sure Stackpole's last novel about Corran's role when Luke's broody dark-haired apprentice goes nuts offers a particularly good precedent here.