Saga One Movie...

Give me my cookie!!

 

On this I actually totally agree with you. It did seem like she kinda took it in stride…well, not really. She *did* kind of fall apart in front of Han….but, yeah it's not clear whether she was more upset because Luke left or because she was reeling over the Vader revelation. I suppose it could've been both. Either way, they could've handled her reaction better. I mean, you're right, considering all that man did to her, she should've been way more like "OMG WTF??" about it.

 

Thanks, bst.

I've just been thinking about these movies a long time (ago in a.../too much), is all.

 

Really nice analyses of the Obi-Wan/Vader duel in ANH and why it works from a thematic perspective in contrast to their last encounter and the other lightsaber duels from the Prequels.

I'd also like to add the following thoughts:
Confronting Vader on the Death Star has absolutely nothing to do with the mission of deactivating the tractor beam, and is something that Obi-Wan consciously chooses to do. Vader had sensed his presence, yes, but Obi-Wan could have simply headed back to the Falcon and hid himself from whatever investigation/search Vader chose to conduct.

Vader does say he's been waiting for Obi-Wan, but based on the way their confrontation plays out, that comes across more as bluster and posturing than as actual truth or fact.

 

Episode 1 or 2, just fixed in a way that Anakins fall doesn't feel so rushed, maybe start Anakin off in his early training , Anakin can still be a kid, I just feel like they wasted too much time in Episode 1.

 

I would definitely want to change Ep. II but instead of just changing it I would scrap the whole thing and replace it with a fan-edit film of the best of TCW.

I have lots of detailed ideas for something like that in this thread:

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/imagining-a-clone-wars-trilogy-set-between-ii-and-iii.50009876/

 

If I were to re-edit anything, it would probably be The Phantom Menace. Just have Anakin be a teenager instead of a kid so the audience has the same 3 leads in all the films like the OT: Mark/Harrison/Carrie and Hayden/Ewan/Natalie. Also it would allow for E1 to be set closer to The Clone Wars, giving the story more room to connect the dots.

That being said, I would keep Episode I and change Star Wars to a 12 (yes, 12) part saga:

1: Based on the Darth Plagueis book
2: The Phantom Menace
3: Aftermath of Plagueis/TPM

4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Clone Wars
6. Revenge of the Sith

7. A New Hope
8. The Empire Strikes Back
9. Return of the Jedi

10. Episode VII
11. Episode VIII
12. Episode IX (With the heroes taking down a returned from the dead Plagueis, set up by my Episode I trilogy).

I love to speculate

 

While I'm a huge fan of all six films and I am happy with them as they are, there are always a handful of things that I would change in each film. The one film that I would make the most changes to is The Phantom Menace.

There are a few changes that I would make that I think would improve the story and continuity with the other films:

1. Cliegg Lars is a friend of Shmi, and Owen is one of Anakin's playmates. Cliegg is not a slave, but he is poor and trying to provide for his son after the death of his wife. Hint at a developing romance between Cliegg and Shmi. Have Owen take on the role filled by Kitster in the film. This way, the Lars already have a relationship with Anakin when he returns in Episode II. Cliegg can still have bought Shmi from Watto when he finally earned enough money, but now Anakin's step-brother is someone that he did grow up with for a while, rather than a guy he spent less than 24 hours with one time.

2. C-3PO begins the film in the service of Queen Amidala, having been working with R2-D2 for many years. Having Anakin build C-3PO always seemed unnecessary to me, as well as contrived. Building a protocol droid to help his mom (a slave) doesn't really make much sense. This would also mean that he is not left behind on Tatooine, and doesn't spend several years with the Lars family. I know that droids are typically viewed as appliances, but C-3PO has rather distinct mannerisms and a distinct voice that haven't changed when he shows up in the Lars' front yard 20 years later. With the same four-character designation. He had a memory wipe, but Owen and Beru haven't.

3. Count Dooku is in the film as a senior and respected Jedi Knight. He shares a couple of brief scenes with Qui-Gon, where his discontent with the Jedi Order is hinted at. Perhaps even show Senator Palpatine "seeking his advice." Star Wars relies heavily on visual storytelling, but there is nothing visually that links Dooku and Qui-Gon. Also, foreshadowing.

4. Put Bail Organa back in the film, as he's a very important character in ROTS, but doesn't really get focused on in AOTC.


I would also make a few changes to improve the film's pacing and general tone:

1. Less screen time for Jar Jar and tone down his antics (including the toilet humor). I've never had the loathing for him that many adult fans do, but he's distracting and gets far too much screen time considering his role in the story. The Fool is a classic archetype, but he's really overdone in this film. Both of my daughters (ages 4 years and 19 months) love him though.

2. Trim the length of the podrace sequence. It goes on for too long, especially with the restored footage on the DVD and Blu-Ray releases. Cut Ben Quadrinaros at the same time; his design has always rubbed me the wrong way.

3. Re-work the ground battle at the end of the gungans vs. the droid army. It's one animated army fighting another, punctuated by Jar Jar being clumsy. There are only two actual characters in this battle (Jar Jar and Tarpals), neither of whom are the focus of the story. There's no emotional involvement here, so it drags on.

 

There is no real story for me if this had happened. It would have made the Jedi more ideal and less responsible for part of their downfall. Where is the conflict? The story?\


However, I would have portrayed Leia as a military leader or an intelligence agent, instead of portraying her as a politician who does everything, except be a political leader.

 

AOTC, it is the one with the most problems. I would need to re-watch it again and take notes to really get my thoughts in order, but my disc is screwed up and I am in no hurry to replace it. There are some things I can think of though.

The love story is horrible. It feels like they fall in love and get married within about a week. As well she is a senator. I could see Skywalker doing something like that, but a senator? No, it is not in a politician's, of that level, brain to make such a rash and politically suicidal move. As someone already suggested, make it so they have already been seeing each other for a while. This not only would require less love story it would also make the decision to get married more believable. If not that, leave out the marriage altogether. Then cut the love story in half.

The duel had lots of potential wasted on poor cinematography. The close ups with the lightsabers just waving in front of their faces, really? You can tell they aren't actually fighting, but just spinning their lightsabers like they are leading a parade.

The battle of Geonosis has amazing visuals, but really who would fight a battle like that. Everyone out in the open exposed with no cover, running at each other. They aren't fighting with swords (well the Jedi are but there are only like 15 of them out of thousands of clones and battledroid) or muskets. No military general in their right mind would fight a battle like that if they had the choice. There is a reason why strategy evolved away from trench warfare.

 

That would completely undermine the very nature of their relationship in AotC. Everything that happens between them is hinged almost entirely on that ten years that they haven't seen each other.

The Clones swooped in and saved the Jedi and Padme and then stormed the main CIS bases, which proceeded to evacuate and take off into space. Not really all that different than what the Empire did to the Rebels on Hoth, right down to the Rebels/CIS both trying to take off while the Imperial/Rebublic walkers tried to take down their evacuation ships.

 

Definitely ANH as it was made first as a possible stand alone film, it's the least connected movie of the saga.

It's the only movie that doesn't have Yoda or Palpatine in it. Granted Yoda wouldn't really fit in this movie, but there certainly could be at least one scene with Palpatine, even if it's by hologram.

It also could benefit from the imperial march, but not too much of it to make it seem really grand in TESB.

Also it would be nice to have a few of the rebels be female and/or alien to be more realistic.

 

Well I am not so sure. Padme hasn't thought all that much about Anakin and still sees him as a small boy. While Anakin has been thinking about her alot. This makes the romance forced, akward, strained etc. They try to deny their feelings but in the end they give in to them. You can achieve the latter even if they have seen each other over ten years. They have strated to have feelings towards each other but each knows that such union is not allowed or frowned upon. But when they are forced to be just the two of them, their true feeling come out. The crucial element for RotS is Anakin's bad handling of loss and that can still work here.

[/QUOTE]

I think they are several differences.
1) The Empire could not do any orbital bombardment due to the shield and it seems that they planned to. Nothing stopped the republic forces from blasting the droid armies from orbit as soon as they got the Jedi out.
2) The Empire had no air support, it is possible they could not fly in, under the shield. Or their surface ships didn't function in such a cold enviroment. The rebels mention that they had a problem with adapting their surface ships to Hoth. The republic forces could use air attacks as much as they wanted and while they used some, they could have used it much more. Air supperiority tends to win battles far more than having more footsoldiers.
3) The Empire attack in armored weichles, while having a rather impratical design, are very resistant to enemy fire. The republic and seps forces send waves of footsolders just running towards each other. This type of tactic would lead to very heavy losses, as WW1 showed.
The seps could possibly afford big losses but the republic has only about 1,2 million soldiers. They can't afford to waste troops in this manner.
4) The Empire tried to set up a blockade around Hoth, no such blockade seemed to have been tried by the republic forces. The republic forces could have destroyed the circular parts of the TF ships that were just sitting in orbit. With them gone, the TF ships are stuck. Also a blockade might have made it possible to shoot down Dooku's ship as it was leaving.

Bye for now.
The Guarding Dark

 

I've seen a number of people complain about ROTJ's Death Star 2 in this thread. I'd like to make a quick point about that. Some say having another Death Star is just ripping off ANH. I look at it differently. The problem with ROTJ isn't that the rebels have to face another Death Star. The problem is that they have to face only one Death Star.

Here's my logic. If you have a super weapon like a nuke or the Death Star, you wouldn't make just one of them. You would mass produce them.

So, Tarkin (or whoever it is who says this line) should have said something like this in ANH: "This first in this new line of battle stations will become the new source of power in the galaxy."

Then, in ANH, they destroy one Death Star. It's a great victory and Rebel base survives, but it's clear that they've only partially achieved their goal. Then, in ROTJ, they learn of where the outer space assembly-line for Death Stars is, and just as it is in the ROTJ, they go there destroy it based on Palpatine's leaked plans. So, when the Rebels arrive they would see multiple Death Stars. The 1st would be the almost finished Death Star that they fly into just as they did in ROTJ. However, behind that DS would be a 2nd half-finished Death Star. Behind that would be just the skeleton of the 3rd Death Star whose construction has just begun. The events in the ROTJ occur basically the same (except Wookiees replace Ewoks), Wedge and Lando blow up the 1 operational Death Star, and its explosion is so powerful that it destroys the machines in the assembly line as well as the other Death Stars lined up behind it. Consequently, with the construction facilities destroyed, nobody will be making any new Death Star any time soon.

So really, the whole problem isn't that there is another Death Star in ROTJ. The whole problem is really that there is only one Death Star, and the Rebels ultimate victory is that have now prevented anyone from gaining the capacity to make new Death Stars.

(BTW I believe in one of the early drafts for ROTJ there is a second nonoperational DS behind the DS that they blow up.)

 

TPM: Dooku. Cut out some of Jar Jar. For example, leave him abroad the ship with Obi-Wan. Also if a certain Muun were to be the ST baddie, add Plagueis!

AOTC: Put back in the backstory and Padme's family back in. Make the duel between Anakin/Obi-Wan/Dooku longer. Shorten the Geonosis factory. Add the Obi-Wan/Jocusta scene where they talk about Dooku.

ROTS: More Dooku. Rebellion scenes. Qui-Gon's voice also needs to be added. Add more to Anakin's fall.

ANH: The Vader/Obi-Wan duel is horrible. Painful to watch. Add Palpatine.

ESB: Han and Leia, yeah they're attracted to one another. What's their connection beyond that? Opposites attract yes. They complete each other. Yes. Yes. Just show more of that. Something.

ROTJ: I'd go for the many Death Star ideas like many above have listed. Or an entirely new super weapon altogether. At least something a little more original. So the Empire doesn't look so silly.
Next, Vader is Leia's father....*crickets*... A scene where she talks about that little detail with Han, Luke, Chewie, someone!
Also, I think this one of the reasons why I'm not much for Han/Leia. "He's my brother." then that's it! I would have liked if she said, "And besides, even if he weren't, I love you. You're the one I want to be with." or something. Not just because Luke is her brother. Can't be with him so I'll just be with Han.

 

My kid brother prefer the PT,he thinks the OT looks "too old",hes also a fan of TCW,I actually enjoyed the PT,and wouldnt change much myself,star wars in a way is like sex,even if its pretty bad,its still good,

 

In the OT, I'd change ANH to give Obi-Wan and Vader a proper duel.

In the PT, I'd change AOTC: make the Clone Wars break out as a direct result of the events in TPM, so that that film isn't so remote and makes clearer Palpatine's motivations in TPM. Then, the rest of the film would include the direct consequences and lead more naturally into ROTS. Also, more Dooku.

One change that isn't major enough to warrant being my "one" change, but that I would love to make to ROTS: scrap the character of Grievous, have Dooku escape post-duel with Anakin, and just have him fill Grievous' role for the rest of the movie. The way it happens, Dooku and Grievous are both kind of support antagonists: eliminate one of them and make the other a primary antagonist.