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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph One Thread To Rule Them All: The Rings of Power + The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings Trilogies

Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. Random Comments

    Random Comments Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2012
    The other answers have been good, but I'd add the Beren and Luthien song, or at least a more complete discussion of that story, instead of having Frodo interrupt at the earliest possible moment to ask a question the song was going to answer. Both for its thematic relevance and because it's a great tale. But I also totally get why they didn't.
     
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  2. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Honestly I'd watch a full movie about the Beren and Luthien story. Luthien is the coolest woman in all of Middle-earth.
     
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  3. Mr. Forest

    Mr. Forest Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I finished listening to the auidobook of The Fellowship of the Ring. I loved it. Boy, there was a ton more of the journey from the Shire to the Prancing Pony than I ever realized. There are a lot of personal ties to The Hobbit that I will forever miss not being film for the film. The entire Lothorien section was terrific and more warm, yet just as mysterious as it felt in the film. Oh, and Tom Bombadil. What a fascinating character, but I can see why he was left out of the film (Goldberry too).

    I'm going to start of The Two Towers as soon as I can. I want more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    I have not heard any concrete information on the Amazon series really since the deal was announced last year.

    I am curious as to what the contents and aims of this prequel(or interquel) or something series will be.

    According to various sources Amazon does not have the rights of the silmarillion-and thus they don't have the rights to HoME, Children of Hurin, or Beren and Luthien either.

    They do have access as I understand it to the appendices which are basically third age and some second age history.

    Hence maybe an Aragorn series? He does have a lot of adventures-Rhun, Moria, fighting under anonymous identities for Gondor and Rohan, etc...

    They could maybe do the Orc invasion of Eriador one of Pippin's ancestors defeated, or maybe some other stuff.

    Problem is if they can't access the bulk of the lore(though I'm sure they'll try to sneak in as many references as they can get away with like Jackson did) they will simply invent things out of the whole cloth.

    This might work as terrible and destructive as it would be for Tolkien's Legacy given the success of the Shadow of Mordor games.

    But even still they'd need to invent the plot, and then find a way to deal with the inevitable backlash this would cause from Tolkien fans.

    Given they have also purchased Conan the Barbarian rights, and Ian Banks Consider Phlebas(one of the Culture novels) I suspect they won't necessarily adapt all of them but are simply aiming to purchase or gain creative rights to various high profile high end properties with the aim of maybe only producing the one most likely to succeed-they plant the seeds, study the focus groups, check their cost benefit calculators and then run pilot episodes.

    Unless they are planning on adapting these series-the LOTR and Culture series respectively will require high budgets-CGI, marketing, actors, etc...

    Amazon has a lot of money and Bezos can certainly put his eggs in more than one basket but I struggle to believe they could adapt all of these.

    Maybe I'm misjudging or underestimating the scale of amazon's financial resources and they can adapt all these properties without issue.

    If the LOTR one does take off-I suspect it will leave HBO scrambling as GOT is ending in 2019.

    Anyway beyond the streaming wars-I am curious as how to Tolkien fans will respond to this. The LOTR films are held up on a high pedestal even today but the Hobbit films received a far more negative and critical reception-from critics and fans alike. They made money to be sure but they were damaging all the same.

    If Amazon has any intelligence at all-they should be taking notes on why the hobbit movies got the reception they did and try to avoid these pitfalls and issues.

    I confess myself to not being particularly enthusiastic about the new movies. In fact I am expecting the worst and hoping for the best.

    I still want to see a silmarillion adaptation that is faithful to the book and is as epic as the book is on screen one day. But I don't have much faith in this.

    However, we shall wait and see.
     
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  5. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Of course they'll adapt them. They purchased the rights for several hundred million dollars. That's a huge investment. At the same time, Amazon is a multi-billion dollar company with a large pool of resources and can afford to take risks. They're going to care less about pleasing purists than they will about pleasing casual LotR movie fans or newcomers because that's where the money is. That's what Shadow of Mordor did and it was wildly successful, and you can believe they're going to study what the developers did there.

    At the same time I don't think they'll completely disregard the lore; their collaboration with the estate will help block some of their creative excesses. In the end though that won't be their first priority, and depending on who's in charge now at the estate, might not be their first priority either.

    It'll come out, it'll make a gajillion dollars, a bunch of fans (myself probably included) will be unhappy with a lot of things but won't be able to do much, and that will be that.
     
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  6. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    I'm thinking episodes distributed via lootboxes.
     
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  7. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    They'll definitely make something out of their investment, but I think the point was that they didn't obtain the rights to everything that they could've used for more substantive storytelling. So that does make it seem like they're fine with making up new stories set in Middle-earth, calling them LOTR (even though they're kind of a prequel, apparently, but not the Hobbit), and then essentially putting out the TV series equivalent of the Shadows of Mordor games.
     
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  8. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    25% chance of getting the first episode, 2% chance of getting the season finale.

    EDIT: Apparently after slowed activity I've finally gotten from 7K to 8K posts after like six or seven years. Whoo?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  9. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    If they invent something out of whole cloth that means they have to sell it as actually being at least marginally respectful of the lore.

    Shadows of Mordor tried to do this.

    If they invent their own fanfiction I look forward to seeing how Amazon says this respects or continues Tolkien's legacy.
     
  10. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    I suspect that's a question that Amazon will probably just avoid answering.
     
  11. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    So The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey was on TV late last night and I decided to watch it (as I've mentioned before, I sold all of my Middle-earth DVDs, but I'll still watch those movies if I come across them on TV). I discovered the best way to view this movie. I watched from the beginning all the way to the point when Bilbo changes his mind and chases after the departing dwarves with his signed contract to join them on their journey. Then I fell asleep. Then I woke up right after the eagles have rescued them, and saw through to the great ending where Smaug wakes up and opens his eye. Without all the iffy middle stuff like the trolls and goblin town, it's actually a great opening chapter to the movie version of the story... the only important piece it really missed was the scene with Gollum and Bilbo.
     
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  12. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    You're missing the point. Shadow of Mordor tried to do this and succeeded. I mean, most people will tell you that the story isn't faithful and some people are annoyed by it, but as I mentioned before it was successful, critically acclaimed even, ultimately spawning a new sub-franchise (or if you want to be cute a sub-sub creation). Gamers and TV viewers do NOY have a 100% overlap and do not want all of the same things, but to an extent the Shadow of games (not to mention the movies, particularly the Hobbit movies) have proven that fidelity to the lore is not essential.

    I couldn't give you numbers, but I would feel comfortable betting that a large majority of the people who end up watching the LotR show will not have read the books beforehand, just like with the movies, and just like Game of Thrones for that matter, or like any comic book movie you can name. Studios (mostly) do not care about the original fanbase, because it's smaller than the general audience. It makes sense to develop a property for that larger audience, maybe with a bunch of fanservice mixed in.

    And while we may dislike it, it's also true that a faithful adaptation and a good show are not the same thing, and while not mutually exclusive the latter is a far more important consideration and when push comes to shove if there's a conflict between the two that will almost always win (and perhaps rightfully so).

    As it is the best way to market this interquel show, so to speak, is probably just "more sword and sorcery in Middle-earth." That's what most people will be tuning in to see.

    And who knows, it may even be good or great, even if it's not really Tolkien. Kinda sucks that it's being made out of Tolkien, but what can you do?
     
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  13. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Make original fiction that doesn't trash Tolkien's legacy?
     
  14. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

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    Apr 3, 2002
  15. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 22, 2005
    Are you making a joke
     
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  16. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Actually, no... it struck me as kind of funny at first that it worked out how it did, but it was actually a great way to tell the most important parts of the first part of the trilogy, IMO.
     
  17. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    And on a bit of a side note, it's fitting that Bilbo and Gollum...I mean, Everett Ross and Klaue got a question and answer scene in Black Panther, although no riddles. :)
     
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  18. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 22, 2005
    You fell asleep after Bilbo left his door and then woke up five minutes before the movie ended. :p
     
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  19. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    I think it probably supports the idea that it could have been one long (and quite good) movie. :p
     
  20. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 22, 2005
    lol I think if they’d stuck to the two film plan that they’d already largely shot, these conversations wouldn’t be a thing.
     
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  21. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 9, 2003
    the hobbit movies put me to sleep too
     
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  22. cwustudent

    cwustudent Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 25, 2011
    My favorite part, too. Watched it the other night (Blu-ray).
    Team Bilbo forever. [face_love]
     
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  23. Bacon164

    Bacon164 Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 22, 2005
    versus...?
     
  24. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    Team Gollum, of course.
     
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  25. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 6, 2003
    Amazon to spend upwards of 500 million dollars for the first two seasons of the LOTR show:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...numbers-on-prime-video-revealed-idUSKCN1GR0FX

    Relevant part of the article:

    This article puts the sum in context:
    https://winteriscoming.net/2018/03/...00-million-first-two-seasons-lord-rings-show/
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
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