Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.
I did. The 48 fps 3D version was much superior and easier on the eyes.
I can't be the only one who did the math to know that the book The Hobbit could have fit into half of a Peter Jackson film. 3 films, spanning 12 hours IS the extended version.
Yes, but $$$$
And, we have a winner!
I really liked The Hobbit, but I agree... the theatrical version was already long enough. Not too long, actually, but just right... it doesn't need an EE, IMO.
i walked into an fye today (it was an accident) and they had this movie playing on their main screen where all their new releases are and i stood there watching it for about three minutes or so and i thought "i do not think i even want to see this movie again, much less purchase it for home viewing."
I wouldn't be adverse to having the full version of the Misty Mountains song in the eventual EE, though. The mere thought of having the rumbling baritone of Armitage's singing voice envelop me for nigh on five minutes is enough to make me shiver in anticipation... so I can well picture myself popping in the DVD to play just that sequence. Again, and again, and again...
Let's drop most of the Great Goblin's appearance for that, eh?
I didn't have an issue with 2-D.
An audiobook recording of the unabridged Hobbit will be able to fit easily into about 2 of these films.
Neither did I.
Regarding the length of the book compared to the three movies, isn't it true that Jackson has incorporated (or will) some elements from The Silmarillion into the Hobbit movies? I thought I'd read that as a partial explanation for the long running time not just being due to a bunch of filler, etc. that came only from the Hobbit book.
I must be one of the only people who liked the Goblin King. I feel he and most of the Goblin kingdom were probably the remains of Del Toro's influence, and I really liked that.
Okay...so multiple viewings later I have found a bone to pick. I have decided I can't stand Saruman's inclusion in this film. Maybe it's been too long since I've read the abridged version (which was only once a very long time ago) but the Saruman scene is easily the most superfluous and...I'm sorry....the most insipid scene in the movie. It gives Saruman the nature of the "Doubting Thomas" when we know full well that at this time he was an ally and a friend to Gandalf, which only precludes his eventual betrayal. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT. With as few good years as Christopher Lee has left in him, why did he have to be such a downer in this movie? He could have been just as concerned about the Morgul blade as anyone else and it would have been a better scene...especially considering that Gandalf still put all of his faith in him at the time he felt so compelled to travel to Isengard. Saying that in the past tense makes me just as jittery as when I was dissecting the prequel trilogy.
After viewing it for the first time just a few minutes ago.....
I've come to the conclusion that the giant golden eagles should have just taken over Middle Earth and ruled as a council of benevolent dictators. There would have been a lot less problems that way.
Sauron raises an army to take over? Send in the eagles.
Whatsisname decides to keep the ring for himself instead of tossing it? EAGLES.
Smaug razes the village to steal all the gold? MUTHA******* EAGLES.
CAW-CAW, YOU SONOFA*****!
I wouldn't say the scene is superfluous, since it's necessary to set up the whole Dol Guldur plotline that will show up later, but it's poorly handled, since it's the only element of the plotline in the movie and thus stands out as going nowhere so far. But I too wasn't happy with the LOOK GUYS HE'S GOING TO GO EVIL, YOU KNOW handling of Saruman. He should maybe be a little arrogant -- that's ultimately the root of his downfall -- but why would he be so dismissive of the threat and so jerkish to everyone else? He'll fall later, but for now, he should still be the wise, respected figure of greatness he was before his fall. As is, there's no indication in the film of why anyone would have ever considered him a good guy or been willing to work with him. It would only make his fall more powerful if we see him as good and respectable beforehand. If he's just been a massively arrogant jerk no one really liked the whole time, it doesn't mean much when he falls -- it's just something that's been coming for a long, long time. I found that really disappointing, especially since I know Sir Christopher really wanted to play a wise, respectable Saruman for The Hobbit.
Edit: I should have said it like this, but I'm glad somebody understands my frustration.
Edit 2: Maybe "superfluous" was bad nomenclature.
I don't think Jackson can use anything from 'The Silmarillion' as they were unable to get the rights for it.
Literally painful? No, not really. But the Red digital look was blech, especially compared to the LotR films.
Don't remember whether I posted this or not, but whatever I'm posting it anyway.
I found this pic recently:
It was attempted once, but the eagles were driven out by fanatical gulls
Jackson is clearly playing around with the book timeline in various ways, but his handling of Saruman here is in line with what is established in the books.
I think the reluctant dynamic we see with Saruman in AUJ's White Council scene is cribbed from a meeting which took place earlier in the book chronology. From the 2851 entry in the "Tale of Years" ( LOTR's Appendix B ):
The White Council meets. Gandalf urges an attack on Dol Guldur. Saruman overrules him. (*) Saruman begins to search near the Gladden Fields.
(*) It afterwards became clear that Saruman had then begun to desire to possess the One Ring himself, and he hoped that it might reveal itself, seeking its master, if Sauron were let be for a time.
So it seems probable that AUJ's Saruman only feigns skepticism at Sauron's return because he is already looking for the Ring.
( However, it should be noted that the 2850 entry had said "Gandalf again enters Dol Guldur, and discovers that its master is indeed Sauron", while in the film timeline he is uncertain even in 2941. )
In the 2941 ( year of The Hobbit ) entry we have:
The White Council meets; Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur, since he now wishes to prevent Sauron from searching the River.
Later in 2953:
Last meeting of the White Council. They debate the Rings. Saruman feigns that he has discovered that the One Ring has passed down Anduin to the Sea.
And it is only in "c.3000" that we get to the following:
Saruman dares to use the palantir of Orthanc, but becomes ensnared by Sauron, who has the Ithil Stone.
So Saruman at the time of The Hobbit has not yet become a full-on "bad guy" in the sense of being a thrall of Sauron, but he is already covetous of the Ring, which serves as the basis for his behavior in AUJ.
From The Silmarillion:
Now the Shadow grew ever greater, and the hearts of Elrond and Mithrandir darkened. Therefore on a time Mithrandir at great peril went again to Dol Guldur and the pits of the Sorcerer, and he discovered the truth of his fears, and escaped. And returning to Elrond he said:
'True, alas, is our guess. This is not one of the Ulairi, as many have long supposes. It is Sauron himself who has taken shape again and now grows apace; and he is gathering again all the Rings to his hand; and he seeks ever for news of the One, and of the Heirs of Isildur, if they live still on earth.'
And Elrond answered: 'In the hour that Isildur took the Ring and would not surrender it, this doom was wrought, that Sauron should return.'
'Yet the one was lost,' said Mithrandir, 'and while it still lies hid, we can master the Enemy, if we gather our strength and tarry not too long.'
Then the White Council was summoned; and Mithrandir urged them to swift deeds, but Curunir spoke against him, and counselled them to wait yet and to watch.
'For I believe not,' said he, 'that the One will ever be found again in Middle-earth. Into Anduin it fell, and long ago, I deem, it was rolled to the Sea. There it shall lie until the end, when all this world is broken and the deeps are removed.'
Therefore naught was done at that time, though Elrond's heart misgave him, and he said to Mithrandir: 'Nonetheless I forebode that the One will yet be found, and then war will arise again, and in that war this Age will be ended. Indeed in a second darkness it will end, unless some strange chance deliver us that my eyes cannot see.'
'Many are the strange chances of the world,' said Mithrandir, 'and help oft shall come from the hands of the weak when the Wise falter.'
Thus the Wise were troubled, but none as yet perceived that Curunir had turned to dark thoughts and was already a traitor in heart: for he desired that he and no other should find the Great Ring, so that he might wield it himself and order all the world to his will. Too long he had studied the ways of Sauron in hope to defeat him, and now he envied him as a rival rather than hated his works. And he deemed that the Ring, which was Sauron's, would seek for its master as he became manifest once more; but if he were driven out again, then it would lie hid. Therefore he was willing to play with peril and let Sauron be for a time, hoping by his craft to forestall both his friends and the Enemy, when the Ring should appear.
He set a watch upon the Gladden Fields; but soon he discovered that the servants of Dol Guldur were searching all the ways of the River in that region. Then he perceived that Sauron also had learned of the manner of Isildur's end, and he grew afraid and withdrew to Isengard and fortified it; and ever he probed deeper into the lore of the Rings of Power and the art of their forging. But he spoke of none of this to the Council, hoping still that he might be the first to hear news of the Ring. He gathered a great host of spies, and many of these were birds; for Radagast lent him his aid, divining naught of his treachery, and deeming that this was but part of the watch upon the Enemy.
It was fine in 2-D for me