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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph One Thread To Rule Them All: The Rings of Power + The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings Trilogies

Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    OK, so Sauron's body was destroyed when Isildur cut off the finger wearing the One Ring from his hand in battle. Only the fact that the ring continued to exist after that point even let Sauron continue to exist at all, since he'd created it and poured much of his own malice and strength into it... so I guess he was alive but without a physical form? In the Hobbit, the necromancer reveals himself to Gandalf as Sauron...
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    ... but he still doesn't really have a body. In the LOTR we see his only manifestation as the Eye of Sauron.

    So if the Nazgul had succeeded in bringing the ring back to him, how exactly would they actually give it to him? Does any physical body, in any kind of weakened state, even exist to receive the ring and thus begin the process of rebuilding? Also, we're told that if he gets the ring and starts that process, things will be much worse for everyone in Middle-earth, but does his having a real body again necessarily mean that he's that much more powerful? His armies are what would do the actual destruction of cities/villages and subjugation of people anyway, and he already has an army.

    Is this kind of another "the eagles can't take the ring there directly, OK?" issue?
     
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  2. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    He exists as a shade at that point, so presumably if you bring the ring into contact with the shade he regains his corporeal form because it's literally a magic ring.

    Also the eagles can't take the ring there directly because it's made quite clear that Mordor's defenses are impeccable and that the company can only sneak in because they're a few steps ahead of Sauron who's so confident in the ring as a corrupting influence that he thinks there's no way anyone would try to destroy it. Flying in on giant, easy to shoot eagles is a really good way of giving up the entire game.

    Also some crap from the Slimerlion about aloof air gods and whatever.
     
  3. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    He's probably lure his enemy into a trap, have a servant prepare a potion with the bones of the father, flesh of the servant, and blood of the enemy...wait, that's Voldemort. :p

    Seriously, I think if the ring came close to his spirit, it would allow his physical form to reform. That's the only thing I can think of, unless he it allows a bearer to open that person's body to his spirit: let's say Gollum had the ring for a little while longer, and if Sauron's spirit had continued to grow in strength, eventually Gollum's body would become a host for Sauron, until a more suitable body could be created...sort of like a cross between Voldemort being on the back of Quirrell's head, and having that baby-like body in GOF.
     
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  4. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    Don't you speak about the Synonymian like that!
     
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  5. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    In the books, it's implied that he does in fact have a rudimentary body but that it's rather weak, if I remember correctly.

    Remember that Sauron is a Maia... they all began as spirits and created their own bodies when they came to Middle Earth.

    Sauron had previously lost his body before, when Numenor fell. But he had left the One Ring in BararDur then, and when his spirit fled the destruction of Numenor he was able to quickly recreate a body althought it could never be fair in form again.
     
  6. Darthmaul208

    Darthmaul208 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Dec 29, 2013
    And don't forget that time Sauron turned into a Demon Bat.
     
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  7. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    In earlier versions of the story, Sauron was Tevildo, lord of cats.
     
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  8. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

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    Jan 5, 2011


    Disclaimer. I don't really know anything about the franchise.

    We can see the possible relevance of this in the intro to Fellowship.

    Men and elves teamed up to fight the armies of Mordor. Galadriel says "victory was near, but the power of the ring could not be undone." We then see Sauron completely wrecking everyone in his path, including Isildur's father. "It was in this moment, when all hope had faded..."

    So, men and elves were near victory, until Sauron appeared on the battlefield.

    Now, of course, entering the battle made him vulnerable, and he was struck, but he was making a difference before that.
     
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  9. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    [​IMG]
     
  10. TX-20

    TX-20 Force Ghost star 4

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    Jun 21, 2013
    Morgoth grabs him by the *****.
     
  11. True Sith

    True Sith Jedi Master star 4

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    May 10, 2015
    I'd always assumed that the Ring would've given back Sauron power beyond just being able to hit large groups of people really hard. With all the magical properties the Ring has, it's hard to say exactly what that would be however. Maybe Gandalf's line about the potential for Sauron to cover the world in a second darkness with it meant more than just the orcs taking over?
     
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  12. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Well the point of the One Ring (and the Seven and the Nine... but not the Three) was that it gave its wearers influence over others minds that grew stronger over time and would eventually make them into mindless puppets. Sauron was seduced to evil by Melkor because he wanted to bring order, and Melkor convinced him that this could only be done by overriding the free will of "lesser" beings.
     
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  13. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    There you go. [face_mischief]
     
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  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Actually, he took the ring with him - at least according to one of Tolkien's Letters:

    http://tolkien.cro.net/rings/fallnume.html

    "Though reduced to a 'spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of domination minds now largely depended."

    [The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien #211)

    The line in question:

    "That would be Minas Ithil that Isildur the son of Elendil built," said Frodo. "It was Isildur who cut off the finger of the Enemy."
    "Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough," said Gollum shuddering. "And He hated Isildur's city."

    The Silmarillion, the LOTR Appendices, the Letters, etc also have hints, as did the main text of the book:

    http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/faq/sauronshape.html
     
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  15. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Christopher Tolkien has put together a new book, Beren and Luthien. I wants it, precious.
     
  16. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 7, 2014
    I imagine it will probably be similar to the Children of Hurin, expanding the story seen in the Silmarillion.

    Still wish that a full Fall of Gondolin story existed.
     
  17. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    I can't wait for a trilogy to be made from it!!!!!!
     
  18. darkspine10

    darkspine10 Chosen One star 8

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    Dec 7, 2014
    Coming Soon: The Middle Earth cinematic universe.

    First there'll be a Children of Hurin trilogy, which will set up the world, then a Beren and Luthien duology, followed by a five part extended version of the 3 page Fall of Gondolin chapter in the Silmarillion.
     
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  19. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Not "coming soon", though... it's already six movies in. :p
     
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  20. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

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    Jul 3, 2016
    Imagine Ecthelion and Gothmog fighting on the big screen.
     
  21. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998


    In the fountain, with steam rising and drops falling... Yeah, that could be epic.
     
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  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Or Carcharoth and Huan battling.

    Probably the most epic might be Earendil taking on Ancalagon the Black - fighting him from his flying ship, and the dragon plummeting from the sky to crush 3 Everest-sized mountains beneath his body.
     
  23. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014

    Still waiting on that post-credits scene that shows Morgoth breaking free and saying, "Fine, I'll do it myself." :p
     
  24. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    Solo whatsherface random elf lady from The Hobbit films movie WHEN, New Line?!
     
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  25. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004