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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph One Thread To Rule Them All: The Rings of Power + The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings Trilogies

Discussion in 'Community' started by -Courtney-, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2004
    laurethiel1138 likes this.
  2. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    wow!
     
  3. Chancellor_Ewok

    Chancellor_Ewok Chosen One star 7

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    Nov 8, 2004

    Yeah, wow, indeed, while The Hobbit is somewhat more obviously flawed than Lord of the Rings, it really captures the sheer magnitude of what Peter Jackson has accomplished with his War of the Ring hexology.
     
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  4. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Amazing.
     
  5. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    That's a cool video. So that funeral during the eighth minute, for Thorin, Kili, and Fili... I just realized I'd never seen that scene before because I never saw the EE of BOTFA. It seems like that should have been in the theatrical version.
     
  6. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

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    Mar 14, 2004
    happy tolkien day everyone. remember to toast the professor tonight if and when you're enjoying a beverage.
     
  7. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Preferrably a good pint of Green Dragon ale, of course!
     
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  8. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    [​IMG]

    Happy Tolkien Day, guys!

    laurethiel1138 Wait, it comes in pints?! :p
     
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  9. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    I just learned that in Tolkien's incomplete rough drafts, Sauron was originally sent (likely when he was a Maia of Aule) to be the King of the Dark Elves, in the underground caves near where the first Elves awoken, to rule and guard and protect the Elves who chose not to go to Valinor, where he was called Tu or Thu. That one of his chief elves (Nuin) found the sleeping humans, before they were awoken by the Sun, and Sauron told him to leave them undisturbed until Eru awakens them. After their awakening, Sauron originally cared for the First Men alongside the Dark Elves / Avari in his caves and that's how Men were taught to speak. But then Men fell under the sway of Morgoth, and betrayed Sauron and the Elves he ruled. Sauron then turned to hate all Men for their betrayal, even after some of them repented, even though Eru Illuvatar intended for them to inherit the earth.

    And then Sauron is next seen in the tale of Beren and Luthien, one of Morgoth's lieutenants... and after that, Sauron repents at the end of the First Age, but is too scared to face judgment, and flees... and then next appears to work with the Elves and make the Rings of Power, and using some of them to completely enslave kings of Men... and then he is captured by Numenor, and seduces their already-proud King to rebel against the Valar, hoping it would bring ruin to Men... and after that, of course, he's having his One Ring taken by Isildur and we know the story from there, all while Sauron's messengers talk about how Sauron wants to destroy the world of men and prevent/end the age of men.
    (Maybe the Men killed all of Sauron's Dark Elves in the east, and that's why they never come into the story again? Maybe Sauron turned to Morgoth, not as a friend or seduced by him.... but hating Morgoth from the start and merely seeing him as a means to an end, wanting to grow in power to eventually eradicate Men and overthrow Morgoth, since he knew Eru Illuvatar wouldn't change his mind on Men?).

    So the story is unfinished and might not have made it into the Silmarillion, and Tolkien might have decided not to make it "canon" although we'll never know for sure, but I find it very interesting. And that's one story I never heard, despite being a Tolkien fan for more than half my life now.
     
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  10. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Just to be clear, Dark Elves does not mean drow. I don't believe Tolkien ever envisioned any black-skinned uniformly evil elves. Dark elves are the ones who never saw the light of Valinor because they didn't make the journey to the Undying Lands. The elves of Mirkwood are all Dark Elves, and most of the elves of Lothlorien.
     
  11. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    If that's a reference to what I think it's a reference to (and it sounds like it is what with the Thu namedrop, although in the story I believe you're referencing he was still Tu), it's in The Book of Lost Tales, and it was never going to be published in that form. Those things are early, early prototypes.

    He was also a werewolf back then, even.
     
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  12. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Sauron could still take the form of a wolf in the published version of Beren and Luthien in The Silmarillion. In earlier versions of that tale, Huan's mighty battle was with Tevildo, lord of cats.
     
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  13. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    Yes I know, that's why I clarified for those who might not know "to rule and guard and protect the Elves who chose not to go to Valinor." (and that is also did NOT mean evil)

    Like I said, what I found was said to be in his rough drafts and unfinished, and he might never have considered them "canon" in the end. But I never heard of that before, and it fits perfectly with what we already knew about Sauron, while making him a much deeper character too, connecting the dots. Even though it's not official canon because JRR Tolkien can't speak beyond the grave... since Sauron's fall was never completely explained, and this does it in a very interesting way, it's now my "head canon."

    And yes, Sauron could still take the form of a werewolf (and a vampire) in the Silmarillion, as well as appear fair when he wanted, he only lost that shapeshifting ability when his original body was destroyed in the fall of Numenor.
     
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  14. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Yeah he could still turn into a wolf but he wasn't known primarily by the designation LORD OF THE WEREWOLVES.

    Man imagine those books' titles: Fellowship of the Dudes That Aren't Werewolves, The Two Towers and Also Werewolves, The Return of the King (But Not the Werewolf One).
     
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  15. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Most of the characters in Tolkien's works go by numerous titles and names (and in the Quenta Silmarillion, being Lord of the Werewolves is basically Sauron's only real role)...


    Anyways, some nice character portraits I found today too:

    Daeron (who loved Luthien)
    [​IMG]

    Elwing
    [​IMG]

    Elendil
    [​IMG]

    Aule and Yavanna
    [​IMG]

    Ulmo
    [​IMG]

    Radagast
    [​IMG]

    Morgoth
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Gil-Galad
    [​IMG]

    Luthien
    [​IMG]

    Beren and Luthien
    [​IMG]

    Finwe
    [​IMG]

    All by the same artist, who has many more: http://kimberly80.deviantart.com/gallery/
     
  16. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Sarge Have you ever had an issue with how the films portrayed how normal things and monsters looked in the world? Like mounts, weaponry, armor, the orcs, the Balrogs, etc.
     
  17. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Ghost

    Fantastic finds! I love them all, and especially Aule and Yavanna. Aule looks a bit like a cross of Hemsworth's Thor and Armitage's Thorin (Thor and Thorin, I'm sure there's a pun begging to be made here...), all swarthy masculinity with the fire of creation in his eyes, and Yavanna is so soft and ethereal, a perfect vital counterpoint to the one who works the metals of the earth.
     
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  18. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    The propmakers at WETA seem to be a cut above the average fantasy film hacks. LotR kept their gear much more practical and believable than most fantasy movies; the armor they made looks like something I could wear, move, and fight in, and most of the weapons look like they could be used effectively on the battlefield. The witch-king's mace is a bit oversized, but that can be handwaved away if we assume Nazgul have supernatural strength. One thing that I can't believe is that Bard's improvisation with the broken bow would have any power. My understanding of bows is that their strength comes from the fibers in the wood grain, and those were broken in half, so the black arrow shouldn't have had any speed or impact. I'm no bowyer, so I could be wrong about that.

    If you haven't seen them, you should check out the BTS special features on the DVDs. I remember one moment in particular when the WETA people were showing off the hero swords and someone balanced Boromir's sword; it balanced perfectly less than a handspan from the hilt. There were half a dozen of us in the SCA watching it, all of us knew how a sword is supposed to balance, and we all said, "Oooh!" :)
     
  19. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    It also slightly reminded me of Khal Drogo and Daenerys, oddly enough.
     
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  20. laurethiel1138

    laurethiel1138 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 6, 2003
    Yeah, I'm not sure your average movie prop would have allowed for this kind of Throw It In moment:
    "According to the wiki, when Aragorn deflects Lurtz's thrown knife it is pure luck. Lurtz was apparently scripted to miss, but the actor accidentally threw the knife right at Viggo’s face, who (fortunately!) managed to deflect it with his sword." (TvTropes)

    And Sarge, are you talking of this feature? EDIT: it's at 37 minutes or thereabouts...
     
  21. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Sarge On the subject of art design for the films, I saw someone make the complaint that the Balrogs should have looked like this.

    [​IMG]

    I don't really understand why. If anything, he looks like a Black Numenorean, judging by the helmet and armor.

    EDIT: I heard that this was a what Gothmog would have looked like had he not been portrayed as a stunted orc with leprosy in Return of the King. Which makes quite a bit of sense since he wouldn't have a Sindarin name.

    Those are the kinds of happy accidents that make movies what they are. [face_laugh]
     
  22. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    ^^ That's the one. Thanks, laurethiel.
     
  23. Jar-Jar Binks

    Jar-Jar Binks SWC Late Show With JJB Host star 8 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Sweet thread,

    My rankings

    Fellowship
    Return
    Towers
    Unexpected
    Five Armies
    Smog
     
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  24. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2007
    The Desolation of Smog

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    Thunder... Lightning... Hurricanes.... SMOG!!!!
     
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