VIDEO One Step Closer (and I'm about to RROD): The Xbox One Discussion

Discussion in 'Games' started by Ezio Skywalker, May 21, 2013.

  1. TrandoJedi Force Ghost

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    May 4, 2011
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    I think Sony has done a excellent job with the PSOne Classics and PS2 classics line. I wish the PS4 was backwards compatible with at least the PS1 though, the Wii's Virtual Console is cool though. It needs more than just Nintendo made titles though, the majority of them are. Except the Genesis/Mega Drive stuff of course.
  2. ManaByte Chosen One

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    There are a lot of Konami and Capcom games on the VC.
  3. TrandoJedi Force Ghost

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    Yes, thats no surprise from those two though hehe. Especially Capcom.
  4. Ezio Skywalker Jedi Master

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    Jan 29, 2013
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    Hypothetical question: if there were to be no more specific-console exclusive video games, which console would you choose out of the Wii U, X1, and PS4? From what I've read here and heard elsewhere, while many people can appreciate the new features of the X1, they're leaning towards the PS4 solely due to exclusive titles. So, if exclusives were to be removed from the equation, would the PS4 still have the edge over the X1? Would anyone even consider a Wii U if Nintendo flagship titles could be released on all three devices?
  5. TrandoJedi Force Ghost

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    I'd still choose the PS4 without question, Sony has prove they care about consumers and gaming above all else. Jack Tretton is the man. :D Even without exclusives I would still see the PS4 as the best console. The Wii U would be nothing without its exclusives, at least I can't see a gamer getting one if it didn't have any. Its more for families.
  6. moosemousse CR - FF:UK South

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    I think I'd still get an X1. The xbox controllers are more comfortable to me than the playstation ones and I prefer the UI on the xbox. While I don't do motion controlled games, Move isn't a patch on Kinect in terms of capabilities and features, and having that available is tempting.

    With the Wii U, I really like the pro pad with the screen. I can see that being a great feature, if it's used well. The xbox has Smart Glass which is a similar idea but it only works with a few games and you need a Windows 8 device to use it properly. It's out on android and iOS but I know that the android version doesn't have the Forza Horizon integration, for example.

    The PS4 has, well, I dunno. It's a good console and it might have a slight edge in terms of specs, but that's it. It's certainly not enough to make me want it. It has a share button I won't use and a touch pad for reasons known only to Sony that'll do something that Sony hasn't revealed yet.

    Saying one console is the best based on hardware alone doesn't seem like a good idea to me. There's a lot more to a console than that. Take the GameGear and the GameBoy. The GameBoy won not because it was the better console but because it offered a better experience. The GameGear chomped through eight batteries in very little time and long sessions required a power adaptor while the GameBoy could last a long long time on just four. It's not all about graphics either. I'm playing FFIV again and I'm loving it. If you take away the graphics of some modern games and you're not left with much, and making a game a tiny bit shinier isn't going to sway me when the experience will be the same.
  7. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    I'd probably get a PS4, since a theoretical lack of exclusives means price point and specs alone become the selling point for me.
  8. Ezio Skywalker Jedi Master

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    Jan 29, 2013
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    I too prefer the xbox interface
  9. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    I'll probably end up with both, but it's a matter of what I get first. Probably PS4, as it's more interesting at the moment and the Xbox exclusives aren't quite selling me.
  10. Joe Force Ghost

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    Dec 25, 2012
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    Xbox. XBL, despite costing money, is practically the center of my social life as-is. It's got great voice quality, making it awesome for talking to friends while playing games or watching TV.
  11. Lazy Storm Trooper Force Ghost

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    Sep 18, 2012
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    I will only be getting X1 for Halo (Yes. Its that important to me).
  12. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Apparently the new Kinect costs almost as much to make as the X1 system itself, which will make it difficult for MS to lower the price.

    Kinda interesting that it's almost the same situation as the Wii U, with the GamePad costing almost as much as the system itself (though I would imagine some of the carryover Wii tech would help avoid some of the same cost lowering concerns)

    It's a really tough question. I want to say PS4, but I prefer MS & Nintendo's controllers over the dualshocks. Then again, without the prospect of Naughty Dog exclusives, the appeal of a Sony console would drop dramatically...

    At the same time, I firmly believe* the Wii U's GamePad promises to be the most significant advancement in console game design via hardware in 16 years (since the N64's analog stick and rumble) and will, eventually, lead to the future of console gaming (whether Nintendo does it themselves or Sony & MS simply mimick the concept in the future with better integration than their current smart glass efforts).

    Keeping in mind that the same hypothetical that removes Nintendo exclusives would also mean every other title would be available for the Wii U (addressing the primary weakness of the Wii U currently with it's 3rd party support) in addition to what would be the most optimal versions of the Nintendo titles (given that they'd still be running natively on Nintendo's own hardware even if ported to other platforms).

    So that leads to the primary distinction of graphics vs game play.

    The Wii U versions would be a little behind on the visuals compared to the PS4/X1 versions but would theoretically have more elaborate or creative gameplay options available to it natively (versus a 3rd party device like an iPad).

    Which would mean things would likely come down to the individual titles and to what degree they take advantage of the GamePad's possibilities. If it's just a game with "regular" gameplay, then the prettier PS4/X1 versions would probably be preferable, but for titles with "advanced/enhanced" gameplay, the Wii U version would be pretty tempting.


    *And if you disagree with that initial observation, you probably don't agree with the rest of the above. That's ok. I'll wait 10 years then tell you "I told you so". ;)
    Last edited by The2ndQuest, Jul 16, 2013
  13. moosemousse CR - FF:UK South

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    I'm inclined to agree. The WiiU pad is a great bit of kit and has a lot of potential. I'll be interested to see if MS and Sony will come up with something similar, though I'm guessing it could just be a better integration of other devices, like the Smart Glass app, as that would reduce costs for them and would be optional. The only thing I don't like about the WiiU GamePad is that it is really big, and it can't really be made any smaller.

    Oh, and Assassin's Creed is free for XBL Gold members as of today. I've just got it so it's free in the UK right now but I can't check for anywhere else.
    Last edited by moosemousse, Jul 16, 2013
  14. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    Aug 16, 2010
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    I hate the Wii U Gamepad. It's awful compared to an actual controller. At least the Wiimote/PS Move gave you a semi-VR accessory, where you could easily control something in all degrees easily.

    The Gamepad is like a DS... but for a controller. I don't want to be looking at my inventory or the map away from my TV.

    I know it has potential for MP, but I'm never going to be that guy standing with the Gamepad.

    To me, it's a gimmick. It doesn't add anything to the experience. If anything, it detracts from it (for me, at least).
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    The size of the controller isnt much of an issue to me- its light enough and ergonomic enough to never be cumbersome (and the latter is one big reason (besides device juggling) why smart glass can't substitute for it) and is virtually indistinguishable from an XB/PS controller if one ignores the screen/mic/speakers.

    Looking away from the TV can be a good thing if the game incorporates it properly (like ZombiU or Arkham City). Not to mention freeing up HUD design so stuff doesn't have to be on the TV if not needed.

    The reason I think it's clearly not a gimmick is that, unlike motion controls (which basically are just alternatives to tradition controls), there are actual game design possibilities that simply cannot be done without the GamePad.

    With few exceptions, you could replace motion controls with standard button presses and stick navigation and still have the same game. You can't do that with a game designed to take full advantage of two screens (as opposed to ports that just slap a map on the controller)..

    If its allowing games to be made that you couldn't make otherwise, it can't be a gimmick, bottom line.
  16. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    Aug 16, 2010
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    No. I never should be looking away from the TV if playing a game. That's precisely why second-screen tech makes no sense to me. I have a 50" TV. Use it. I don't want to be looking into my lap for any reason.

    I haven't played ZombiU, but Arkham City's Gamepad usage was basically a map, your inventory (easier to equip gadgets by pressing up). You can look at bios. You can control batarangs (which is a gimmick).

    Basically, I have the select button instead. The sonar thing is pretty much just detective mode lite.

    What could the Gamepad do that isn't a gimmick? Open me up to the possibilities.

    All I'm seeing is taking things from the TV and putting them on a second screen for no good reason.
  17. moosemousse CR - FF:UK South

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    I'm not sure about the WiiU but the DS and 3DS make great use of two screens. Animal Crossing: New Leaf makes great use of it. When making designs, the bottom screen is used to create the design with the top screen being used to display what it'll actually look like. This would also work with the WiiU as drawing by hand is much easier than using a controller. It also uses the bottom screen as a map, which is actually really useful. All I need to do is take a quick peek and I know where I am, instead of opening up a menu or having a small map covering part of the main screen.

    It would also add a lot of butons, which would be very useful for RPGs. You could have it set up with a number of quick use slots and pressing them would use whatever is assigned to the button.

    The thing is, you can do pretty much whatever you want with a second screen. DS and 3DS games all make great use of the second screen and the WiiU won't be any different. Your example isn't a good one because it wasn't originally designed to have a second screen so the features that use it are just an afterthought. Try some of the WiiU exclusives and see what they do with it, because it'll be a lot better than that.

    But I think that maybe the WiiU thread is the best place for this?
  18. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    I agree the motion control batarang is a gimmick, but having to take your eyes off your surroundings to manage/access inventory or data in both games is a more immersive experience since you don't want to do so if you're in the middle of enemies that can attack you- it adds tension in those environments (more effective in a survival horror game like ZombiU, but applicable to a lesser extent in Arkham City).

    I don't want to sidetrack the X1 thread with too much Wii U discussion (but if you want me to go into more detail, I'd be happy to do so in the Wii U thread) but, just in broad strokes all you have to do is look at countless DS/3DS games that made good use of second screen designs and how one can either be supportive of the other or be the directing influence of the other.

    Other possibilities off the top of my head:

    -For single player games? Allowing the control of multiple characters/elements simultaneously directly (controlling their motion real time) or indirectly ("wingman" commands on a map or some such) such as drones, aerial strikes (with your character on the TV and the drone controls on the pad), surveillance (for assassin/stalker/stealth situations) or even something more active like actual characters, etc.

    There's a ton of game design possibilities with that alone. I was really sad that PVZ game on X1 was an exclusive because you look at the gameplay and it screams to be played on a GamePad with things like the garlic drones, etc.

    -For local multiplayer games? Anything that requires one player have access to information the others do not: sports (choosing plays, etc), RPG Dungeon Masters, various other boardgame and cardgame mechanics that could be ported, etc.

    New genre hybrids are another possibility- such as the FPS/RTS multiplayer modes of ZombiU (so now players with differing genre preferences/strengths can team-up or compete within the same game based on those preferences/strengths without having to do online multiplayer).

    -For any kind of single or multiplayer game, configurable hot keys on the screen would make several genres that previously benefitted from being on PC with a keyboard much more console-friendly. RTS, tactical, flight sim. But going into more original territory- imagine if a game had mechanics that centered around how one configured that setup. You're moving beyond customization and into strategy.

    For starters ;).
    Last edited by The2ndQuest, Jul 16, 2013
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  19. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Okay, what gets me is that the Wii U - which isn't a bad system, it just HAZ NO GAEMZ - comes with a built-in second screen.

    SUDDENLY, after E3, second screen functionality/gaming is like the thing, and yet somehow the Wii U still isn't seen as a good system. Don't get me wrong, the fact that other systems won't really care what tablet you use is certainly a factor, but man, this has been bugging me.

    Xbone is shaping up to be the exact system but better as the 360. PS4 is a PS3 but better. None of this is news, but it's just striking that the one system that actually tried to do something different is being ridiculed despite its influence already being seen in what devs are trying to do. Obviously it's all open for debate, but this whole "console war" mentality just hurts the medium as a whole. Blah.

    Anyways, I'm pretty keen for the next gen in general - Xbone exclusives just aren't attention-grabbing enough yet for me to go out and buy right away.
  20. Nobody145 Force Ghost

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    Feb 9, 2007
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    People ridiculed the DS too back when it started right? I remember Nintendo saying something about three pillars- the Gameboy, the DS and their current console (which was the Gamecube I think) or something like that. Its probably partially why the early DS models had GBA slots, as a backup. Of course the DS ended up killing the Gameboy instead, or rather becoming the successor system. The Gamepad has possibilities but it works fine as a standard controller for me too, so that's always a reliable fallback option at least.

    Its not a major discussion at the moment (at least in public), but consoles in general are kind of in decline. An eventual PS5 or Xbox Minus One ( :) ) are in doubt, if things continue as they are, but trying something new is always risky, with smartphone and tablets eating away at market share. Nevertheless, Microsoft and Sony are still going head to head for the next-gen games and gamers, while Nintendo has basically walked away from that and is trying something different. The Wii was wildly spectacular, but duplicating that success is... difficult. Its not just the motion controls, it was probably the mass appeal, but just doing motion controls again isn't enough, despite Microsoft's efforts to force Kinect on us. An option to skip out on Kinect would be nice, and would probably make a cheaper Xbox bundle possible but making Kinect required allows for more exclusive control schemes too, otherwise developers probably won't bother.

    Which came first, Wii Gamepad or Smartglass anyway? I think Gamepad was announced first, but a Smartglass app is a lot easier to pull off, but not quite as inclusive. So far I've loved playing games on the Gamepad as my TV setup is a tad... inconvenient at the moment, so that worked out great for me. Although the lack of killer games is still a big problem, but I hope their release schedule will accelerate. The 3DS had a sluggish start but its taking off. To keep the discussion somewhat Xbox related, a launch line-up is somewhat important, but keeping a steady stream of games coming is also pretty important. The 3DS started slow but there's now like a big game every other month or even more than that. The Vita... yeah, its half dead already. We'll see how many next-gen games there are by December.

    Its hard to imagine a system without exclusives, since that's usually one of their strongest selling points, but I'd probably still choose a PS3/4 over Xbox. Cheaper price point, and on the PS3 at least a lot more options, and the PS4 is still cheaper and stuff like Gaikai sounds interesting, and PS+ is still more appealing to me than XBL. Doesn't help that neither system is backwards compatible though the PS4 might have something eventually. Actually, with my backlog Wii U backwards compatibility is quite useful too, another reason I still like Nintendo, that and old brand loyalty, and I've also had a mostly positive PS3 experience so that's another reason too.
    Last edited by Nobody145, Jul 17, 2013
  21. Jedi_Matt Force Ghost

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    Do you mean the Wii U Gamepad?

    I'm not entirely sure... I would think the Wii U pad entered development first, as it's a hardware and software advance.

    But before both of those, you had Vita / PS3 compatibility (though I don't really know how that worked, in all honesty), and before that, iPad to TV...
  22. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Vita/PS3 came first (but has largely been unused- since developers can't assume most players will have both- same trouble GCN/GBA connectivity had (minus the extra cable purchase problem)) though I think it was announced at the same E3 as the Wii U, followed by the GamePad (integrated so devs can count on using it) and then Smartglass (kinda halfway- not everyone will have a tablet but more than those that have a Vita- but it's not integrated into a controller or connected natively so it has very limited gameplay applications) about a year later.
  23. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    Both the PS4 and the Xbox One have sold out quicker than any other console in gaming history. There is absolutely no evidence console gaming is in decline, just as there is no evidence PC gaming is going anywhere.
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  24. Penguinator RPF Modinator and Batmanager

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    Right, the original console/handheld connectivity was GBA/Gamecube. So Nintendo was first to the punch there, too. Hell, the Super Game Boy was a thing, too, and the Pokemon Stadium controller adapter that let you plug in your Game Boy cartridge was there as well.

    And touchscreen tablets have been around for a while, but Nintendo paired it with a console system first. Nintendo didn't necessarily do motion control first - the Sony EyeToy predates the Wii by 3 years, but seriously, have you used an EyeToy? It's awful - but they did set the bar everyone else tried to reach. PS3 motion control might as well be a Wii remote, honestly, and the Kinect is just a better EyeToy.

    And @Nobody145 - I have to strongly disagree with you - phone and tablet gaming hasn't put a dent in console gaming, it's just shown Sony and Microsoft that there's still more money to be made. It's not a replacement, it's a supplement. Why do you think that Sony talked up their connectivity with phones? Hell, why are games like The Division and Watch_Dogs encouraging connectivity? The idea that the player on the bus jumps into a game on his way home from work on his phone or tablet keeps coming up whenever I hear these games discussed in the media. Again, it's not a replacement, it's a supplement.
  25. 07jonesj Force Ghost

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    I prefer the Wiimote and the PS Move to the Kinect. Having the motion controller seemed to at least give developers a focus. Devs simply didn't really know what to do with the Kinect. You were either flailing your arms around pointlessly, or it was relegated to voice commands, something that could have easily been done by a simple headset (Tom Clancy's EndWar actually used voice commands long before the Kinect).

    Hopefully Kinect 2.0 will be better used, but I doubt it. There is a strong argument to be made that because everyone will have one means it will be better used, however.

    Oh, and yeah, both the Wii and tablet/phone gaming just opened gaming to a previously untapped audience - the now-termed casual audience. As long as deep, longer, more carefully crafted experiences keep getting made for hardcore gamers, I couldn't care less about casual games.
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