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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Full Series One thing The Clone Wars has failed with.

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Mzukiller, Sep 20, 2012.

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  1. Mzukiller

    Mzukiller Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    I like this show a lot more than I did in Season 2, which is when i wanted Lucas' head. BUT I still have my complaints

    This series was promising to delve into the relationship of Characters and ultimately make us understand the mass impact of Anakin's actions in ROTS. I do not believe they have succeeded, the characters have barely had any impressive development EXCEPT for Anakin's addition of a likeable personality. I think Ahsoka is to blame here, more time has been put into her than other characters. Mary Sue, maybe?
    General Grievous is my favorite character, and yes, I am aware he's a villain, yet he's a villain with an amazing back story. I think that should be delved into, just how much Grievous doesn't know, how he's been deceived into directing all of his hatred towards the Jedi. I should feel a tinge of pity when Obi Wan executes him on Utapau. Same with Count Dooku, I should understand his feeling of being betrayed by Sidious. Now I know I ask too as I am aware that Dooku and Grievous are antagonist, but more weight should be put into these characters, characters who have escaped death so much in the series only to die in the Movie. Should I be happy they die? Should I feel sympathy for their mutual betrayal?


    As for the Jedi, I know that next season, there is a void of distrust growing between the Jedi and the Republic, this must do a much good job of Foreshadowing the Great Jedi purge and how the Citizens are okay with it all. Yoda and Windu, above all else must be the most affected as they are integral to the Purges onset due to Palpatines lies.

    But now back to the Main Characters. I understand that Ahsoka needs to be fleshed out, but all the moments between her and Anakin/Obi-wan should be with each other. I want to feel their friendship and at the same time, the feeling of how far their growing apart. Why spend so much time on a character who has no bearing on the Films? Well because, take out Ahsoka and you lose the ever so precious teenage/child audience.

    All and all, more depth needs to be put into characters: Instead of making Anakin's inevitable fall so apparent with the constant hints, why not catalouge his final years in the light? Instead of making Grievous seem like a mindless Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, why not show us how this monster came to be? Instead of showing the Jedi as powerless and innocent, why not demonstrate for us their growing arrogance and kinship to The Sith that makes the Republic fear them?

    Let me go into that last one: I think that going so long without fighting the Sith has corrupted the Jedi by giving them the illusion that they're the biggest and baddest around. More and More Jedi have broken their own code, striking in anger, knowing Death and not the Force, embracing the chaos of the Clone Wars and falling in love by the droves. In that regard Jedi and Sith are very alike; Without a Strong enemy, with out Each other they fall apart.

    Thoughts, comments, concerns?
     
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  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I agree with you. And I'll add that I'm a little over the Imperial March in the background every time Anakin does the least thing wrong, including forgetting to flush the toilet after he poops. (Cue in Padme entering the 'fresher and mumbling, "Again, Anakin???"...and the friggin' Imperial March.)

    The one "hint" that I liked was his choking Poggle, because that was at least somewhat ambiguous. Yes, technically it was wrong, but if he had not done it, Ahsoka and Barriss would have died. The show at least added that grey area.

    I also would like to see the show explore the idea that having a temper in and of itself is not always wrong--especially if the show adds the idea that some members of the Council think that having a temper or an emotional personality in general is always wrong.
     
  3. Mzukiller

    Mzukiller Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Thank you, I'd thought you Clone Wars fans would tear me apart. What do you think of my Final Synopsis of the Jedi and the Sith?
     
  4. Spazmatron

    Spazmatron Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Hmm... TCW has some good aspects and then it has bad aspects. I myself always try to think the best of the show in every way so that I can enjoy myself instead of stressing out over things I don't like. You mentioned that more time has been spent on Ahsoka than other characters. well that's because they decided to implement a main female character for the first time in any film project, which is both a Jedi a slightly different race than humans. I don't know if you are saying more time should be spent on Anakin/Obi-wan, or many of the other characters which have been introduced/used in TCW. It's probably a good thing that they drift away from characters which are in ROTS, because it makes the show almost unexciting at times. Well, I'm not gonna worry if Obi is holding off a cliff for his life am I? heck no, because I know that hes not going to die. When you put other characters in tough spots, it makes the show more exciting because we don't know what their fates are.

    One thing that I totally agree with you about is that Anakin's personality is better in TCW than the prequels. I myself loved the phantom menace, but once ep 2 came... ugh Anakin was portrayed the opposite as he should have been. in ANH and ROTJ obi wan says "Anakin was a good man" and "Anakin was a good friend". yet in 2 and 3 we see him stomping around "its not fair! its not fair!" and that annoying voice of his ruined those movies... But TCW shows how he should have been, and while in the PT he was my least fav character in TCW i like him a lot more because hes not some immature idiot running around complaining 24/7.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I think the Jedi had gotten arrogant because it had been so long since the last Sith War--they assumed the Sith were extinct and had been for a millenia, they assumed that they could take full credit for that, and they therefore assumed that the Sith would not dare to make another appearance with a Jedi Order of 10,000 strong.

    According to the Plagueis novel, the Sith had always operated in the open, and therefore the Jedi Order did not take into account the idea of the Sith operating in secrecy, stealthily infiltrated the government of the Republic itself. And maybe the Jedi had no way of anticipating this. However, they did assume--arrogantly IMO--that they would always be stronger than their now-extinct enemy.

    IOW I agree with you.
     
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  6. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I don't know, I just appreciate a degree of realism in stories. Yes, I know that in a show taking place in the Star Wars universe where there are supernatural powers and what not, that it is not always possible/necessary, but a lot of my complaints of the show are derived from some sort of realistic expectation. The most repeated complaint of mine generally stems around the clones and how nobody seems to care that they are growing people for warfare and sending them into battle at the age of 10. In a tale of morality and where doing the right thing is emphasized and whatnot, I would have thought that this kind of thing would be addressed by certain characters like Padme. IMO growing a human being to be sold to the Republic as though it were no different than a gun being manufactured for an army in itself should sort of foreshadow the rise of the Empire. People are tools. But then TCW treats it like "oh, no look it's fine. They get treated well by Jedi..." who are the ones leading these child-slave-clones to go fight for a government that they've been brainwashed into following loyally. For those like the Jedi that are supposed to be all about "peace and justice" this just seems all kinds of wrong and unrealistic.

    I realize that some would say, "well, that's just further evidence of how corrupt they've become" but if that's the case, then this could be better illustrated through dialogue, for instance if Padme is criticizing the lengths the Republic has gone to to win and Anakin at least admits that it's a necessary evil. But even then, forget Anakin, how does Yoda view it/justify it?

    Also in relation to the clones, as I stated recently in another thread, how is it that the Jango DNA is degrading, and that all of the clone manufacturing is centralized on one planet, and the Republic has not remedied this? That's like a country at war having a single weapons factory rolling faulty equipment off the assembly line. How long does it take for someone to fix it? I'd say introduce new clones from another template, but even those would be 10 years away, unless they did like the EU and introduced the concept of clones grown at an even faster rate. But where are the volunteers stepping in to defend the Republic if the military situation is so dire? This idea of local insurgencies rising up with the support of the Republic could be a step in the right direction. Though I hope for more explicit references to what the Republic is doing to stay in the fight. I mean, the CIS isn't so stupid as to have their only droid factory on Geonosis.

    Where is the political opposition to Palpatine? And I'm not talking about Padme who is his friend. I'm talking about how in a Senate with thousands of representatives, and power becoming more and more centralized in Palpatine's hands. NOBODY rises up to challenge him? Is Palpatine suspending elections? If so, where are the people to protest that? I'm sick of the answer to everything being "Palpatine's controlling everything." I don't think he is. He doesn't seem to be until all the way up until ANH when he disbands the senate. Motti even voices as much when he talks about how can Palpatine possibly control the bureaucracy without the senate. Some also refer to Palpatine as playing a chess game. It's not a chess game if he's already won. He still has to contend with the Republic system until the pieces are in position to declare an Empire. He's not there yet. The Republic is still just that, a Republic. Where is his opposition? No matter how much of a hero he may be considered, there would be no shortage of people slandering him (or even just exposing the blunt truth) to sway opinion in their favor.

    And out of 10,000 Jedi, not one stands up and rejects the role of General, maintains that they should be guardians of PEACE and JUSTICE and refuse the position? Even if they are just padawans disillusioned with the government or idealistic young Knights. I would think some would have some pretty strong feelings about going out and killing former members of the Republic because the Republic doesn't want to recognize them as a sovereign political entity. I know a schism happens in the EU. But I also think that that kind of direction would be inevitable. Now I don't mean that they run out and go enlist with the CIS, because then it's the same issues only from the other side, but they can protest the war, abandon the Order, come into conflict with a panicked Senate that wants to see them stand trial for treason, they may then end up with the CIS simply for protection, or they might just get sick of the Jedi/Sith ideological struggle all together and try to no longer involve themselves in it.

    I've also been hoping for episodes that follow the villains as main characters. In the OT, a lot of time was spent just on the villains. The opening scene of ANH is Vader and Stormtroopers bursting through the door looking for stolen Death Star plans. And while the story follows Luke, Obi-Wan, Han, Leia, etc. Periodically there are scenes that check back in on the villains to see how things are going from their perspective. In TCW so much more time is spent with the heroes, and when we do get to see the villains, it's usually just to see them twirling their mustaches while mumbling "evil deeds, nyuk nyuk nyuk." I'd like to see the occasional in depth look into a story from the villains' perspective. E.G. a story in which Sidious gives an order to Dooku and how he goes about carrying it out. The heroes would then be the ones that, like the villains in most episodes, will crop up infrequently/only when the main character crosses their path. And more can be explored about a character like Dooku beyond him stroking his beard menacingly. Offer some insight into his back story, or how he justifies what he's doing (Anakin struggled with that a lot in ROTS), what's his endgame, etc. Such stories wouldn't need to occur as often as hero centered stories, but even just from time to time would be nice.
     
  7. Mzukiller

    Mzukiller Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    You make VERY good points. So it's my responsibility to answer them.

    1. The Clone Army should've been a temporary solution, I think the escalation of the War is what keeps them from recruiting actual soldiers because the fact that the Galaxy is divided causes too many problems. Secretly the Jedi detest the clones, they use them out of necessity.

    2. There should be an opposing force to Palpatine, that's the problem with the whole democracy angle they have going. I think it would be explained away however as, "Palpatine silences anyone that get's bold enough to speak up." But that may be the smallest part of the Star Wars universe at this point, the people standing against the Rise of the Empire.

    3. They tried that in the Old Republic days, look what happened. The Mandalorians freaking demolished Half the Galaxy, I think like the council feels the need to help defend the innocent over protecting the peace. Another example of how even the Jedi have corrupted.

    4. That last one is spot on.
    a. Grievous is a hero to his people, a Messiah even.
    b. Dooku's and by extension Palpatine's motivation is probably to wipe out a corrupt government/order
    c. The CIS just want to be free of an Imposing Government

    The only side in this war that is evil seem to be the Mandalorians/Death Watch, who want nothing more than to challenge the Jedi and raze the Republic in an attempt to be immortalized. Maul...is just a loose cannon now.

    The stories that can be made with the "Bad Guys" are nearly infinite.
     
  8. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Just by perusing through history, it's clear that not every "crucible" (eg. war) produces a predictable result. War is the ultimate example of this, as this extreme violence on an epic state-level scale (pan-Galactic in the case of the Clone Wars) can have unintended consequences. Sun Tzu advised his disciples and readers to avoid war at all costs and to use it most sparingly of all options to bring about political change. Valuable people can die and take their unique skillsets with them. Paraguay and Newfoundland are countries that were infamously depopulated through war casualties and never regained their former eminence relative to other countries. The outcome of a critical battle that could decide the fate of the war may depend on an individual soldier's personal heroism, or it might be swung because of a factor that was entirely unavoidable. War is fundamentally a high-risk, high-stakes venture.

    The dynamism of the situation should be shown.

    Indeed. They need to expand on some of the themes of the PT. The Rako Hardeen arc hinted at a growing rift between various characters (Anakin, Palpatine, Council, Obi-Wan, even Padme!) Some more of that, but with a bit of the philosophical debate you alluded to. We see Anakin and Tarkin agree that the Jedi aren't doing enough to win the war, but why should such a notion be dismissed out of hand as the conspiracy of two future antagonistic tyrants? No strawman proto-Imperial non-clone officer or genetically twisted psychopath of a clone commander, please. Just a standard-issue Jedi and someone else who disagrees with them butting heads over how to prosecute a campaign.

    What TaradosGon said about Jedi refusing to fight for the Republic for ideological reasons is in one of the older comics, but the dissenting Jedi are quickly polarised between good guys and bad guys and the potential is not fully exploited. Sora Bulq develops in an almost identical way to Pong Krell, and at least the latter was in a story that was explicitly clone- rather than Jedi-focused. TCW could fully exploit the potential in this concept.
     
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  9. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Sep 3, 2012
    TCW hasn't failed at anything, they produce great, enjoyable episode and they have not made any bad episodes yet *prepares for bashing*
     
  10. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Another issue I find is the lack of development regarding the motives for the war. "Corruption," doesn't cut it for me personally, mostly because we see little tangible evidence of it in the show (beyond poisoned tea on a neutral world), or why this is enough to warrant deaths of millions of people. The American Civil War had the issue of slavery involved, and fear that the southern economy would collapse under the rule of Northern presidents that would see slavery reigned in. That's a big enough deterrent to help hinder the prospect of negotiations.

    With the CIS and Republic it just seems like a shallow:

    CIS: We're leaving. The Republic is corrupt!
    Republic: Let's talk this through.
    CIS: NEVER! DIE! DIE! DIE!
    Padme: We can't give up on the prospect of a peaceful resolution.
    Republic: NO! THEY MUST DIE NOW!

    And I just find it odd that the Republic still allows the commerce guilds seats in the Republic senate, and that the Republic is still corrupt. Valorum got kicked out of office due to his inability to deal with corruption... So why is Palpatine, the Chancellor whose reign has seen the Republic split in two, having more and more power throne at him if his reign is just as bad as Valorum's? Shouldn't he be the guy that ends corruption in the senate, that crushes those corrupt Separatists, that suppressed the attempted coup of a corrupt Jedi Order... corruption, corruption, sinister, corruption... and then victoriously announces his Empire as the hero who saw the Republic through its darkest time and whose reign offers a bright and hopeful future (all to be painfully shattered, but that comes latter)? Instead he's the guy stalling on a peaceful resolution, seeing the Republic nearing bankruptcy, and whose regime is still littered with corruption... Not the kind of guy I could see being applauded when he declares that he's ruler for life. And nobody else stands up and says "well... this guy sucks. How about a vote of no confidence in his leadership?"

    Once the CIS left, I feel like Palpatine should be doing his darndest to reign in the corruption of the Republic to warrant being given more and more power because he uses it to great effect. Give him more power so he can boot the Trade Federation out of the senate and bring their influence in the senate to a close, etc. so that the senators will love him and give him more power so he can keep up the good work.

    Also, I think consequently there needs to be a secondary reason that blocks the prospect of peace. Just as economic collapse vs. the continuation of slavery could be a strong deterrent keeping the Union and Confederates from reaching any kind of practical deal. What's keeping the CIS and Republic apart beyond "corruption." Are the Outer Rim planets treated like second class citizens? Are they so economically dependent on the commerce guilds for political favors and economic strength that the Republic's treatment of the commerce guilds risks bankrupting CIS member worlds if they agree to re-join the Republic? Does the CIS start building WMDS (like the Death Star) as "war deterrents" (as nuclear weapons are sometimes perceived in the real world) while the Republic refuses to ever discuss peace so long as such weapons exist? ect.
     
  11. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan

    Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Ever since Lair of Grievous I have been wanting the show to explore Grievous and give us a reason to care for him. In the EU he was not just evil for the sake of evil and that is how I wished the show did him.
    Now he has been just turned into a useless walking easy obstacle!

    The show is doing this wrong too. WHY waste the show on characters OVERexplored in the movies like Anakin and Padme.
    Here is the video that brought the feeling back again.


    The show, as with Grievous, needs to give us more reason to care for the good people aside from Anakin and Obi-Wan and Padme. The show started out with a good idea by having episodes more focused on Plo Koon and Kit Fisto and Mace Windu.
    Now it is boring Anakin 24/7. I wish to see more Kit Fisto like in Lair of Grievous so I could care a lot more when Sidious cuts him down.
    Same with Mace and with Plo Koon and with Aayla and so on.
     
  12. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    On the issue of Palpatine and corruption, it's explained as a situation where Palpatine's hands are tied in the public view. Unlike Valorum, he doesn't have any "baseless accusations of corruption" to drag him down. He's a decent guy who is restrained by the constitution from doing what is necessary to root out corruption. Supporters in the electorate and the Senate think it's good for him to take on more powers, offers which he initially rejects in order to put across an image of a law-abiding moderate, before finally accepting them with "great reluctance". All these challenges - the Separatist threat, the corruption, the Jedi rebellion - are things for him to surreptitiously extract powers from the Republic to deal with, all while smiling like an old grandfather.

    TCW should address the issue of the corporate representation in the Republic Senate, perhaps as an example of Palpatine extracting yet more extraordinary powers to deal with the threat at hand, in this case corruption. What bigger corruption boogeyman than the fifth-column corporate representatives in the legislature, working for a company that's playing both sides and partial to the Separatists? That also gives him an opportunity, when the CIS inevitably becomes a more brazen corporate oligarchy before ROTS, to paint the CIS as irredeemably corrupt beyond anything the Republic ever was and certainly beyond what the Republic is after Palpatine purges the corporations. Come to think of it, this might even be an opportunity for the writers to show Padme's grey side, with her voting in support of Palpatine's extraordinary powers in order to crush the factions who subjected Naboo to oppression.

    I'm sure someone on TCW's creative team (possibly Lucas himself) wants to keep the corporate representation right there into Imperial times in order to add anarcho-capitalism to the list of the Empire's evil attributes, but they should realise that they can use the CIS as the anarcho-capitalist dystopia. It's a confederation (obvious shoutout to the C.S.A.) that has Nute Gunray on its ruling Council. The guy who invades a planet to twist the government's arm should have his fingerprints all over the Separatists' policies. Knowing Lucas' politics, it might even be a dig at the United States' two main political parties. I've seen it commented that "Republicans are a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporations; Democrats are a partially-owned subsidiary," so Lucas might be consciously aiming for something similar with the CIS and the Republic respectively.
     
  13. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    In ROTS, Palpatine is far more blunt with his power. Mon Mothma (cut scene) states that the senators know where the real power lay and that they will do anything to share in it. In AOTC he was the guy "reluctantly" accepting power. But I don't think that he can stay that way across all three years of the war. It seems like by ROTS he has transformed into the Louis XIV of the Star Wars universe in that the senators that at one time controlled the Chancellor are now eating out of his palm if it means currying his favor (same as how Louis tamed the nobility).
     
  14. Spazmatron

    Spazmatron Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Asking for palpatine taking more power (while its a good idea but we would get:) = more Padme and her silly senate episodes -_-
     
  15. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    That's true. That means there needs to be a change. The Palpatine we see in TCW is closer to where he is in AOTC than ROTS. Mace Windu and all the other sceptics are still in his good graces. Even Bail Organa doesn't mind taking holotransmissions from him when negotiating with the Toydarians. Palpatine needs to be more dictatorial by the end of the series, so that we can see why Giddean Danu and Bail Organa are so irate about him and why even Padme eventually switches to their side. This change needs to be shown.
     
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  16. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I think the idea of megacorporations being a hindrance to government and a source of corruption is being played out in TCW, but I don't know if that will carry over into the Imperial Era or not. The commerce guilds seems like they are caricatures of the worst elements of capitalism, but with names like Techno Union, Commerce Guild, etc. they seem like they are superficially unions with "collective bargaining" and a seat in the Republic Senate. The details of the commerce guilds always seems to be "big picture." I mean all we see are the greedy neimoidians leading the Trade Federation, looking for new ways to earn a profit. But we have no real exposure to the non-Neimoidian constituents of the Federation. Did they join voluntary? Were they coerced by droid armies and political threats so that the Trade Federation now holds a monopoly by swallowing up the little guys forcibly, but then use a name like Federation to give the outward appearance that it is a shared entity reflecting the collective interests of all its constituents?

    I see the rise and fall of the Empire as pretty much being an example in the idea that Democracy truly is a terrible form of government, except for all the others that have been tried (or however the quote goes). We see all the problems in the Republic and people start looking to a dictator, only to end up with something far, far worse. And in the end the Rebellion sets out to form a Republic again, which may end up just as flawed as the first. And then there are episodes in which Ahsoka is giving the lesson that it's the peoples' duty to hold their representatives accountable and expose corruption, etc.

    I don't know if the same route would be taken in the economic aspect. If it's going to set up capitalism as appearing so bad and as a source of corruption only to be "resolved" into something worse if he eliminates these entities into their constituents and then brings them under state control.

    Palpatine's all about power and even when he declares himself Emperor that doesn't seem to be enough and he has to build himself a Death Star so that he can disband the senate and not have to share power with them at all. He decapitates the leadership of all the guilds in ROTS. I don't know where Lucas would take things from there. But IMO it just doesn't seem like Palpatine would ever want to share power with these big political-economic entities. I would think nationalization to be more in character.

    I'm guessing this will never be explored by Lucas though. Like I said we never really get any kind of exposure to the guilds outside of the incredibly greedy upper echelons of their leadership. I can't imagine he'll ever touch topics like nationalization or how the lowly members of the Federation fit into the picture, etc. E.G. booting the Trade Federation/Banking Clan out of the Republic wouldn't necessarily be a collapse of the Republic's economy if enough banks, etc. remain in the Republic unaffiliated to the guilds, or form new guilds.
     
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  17. Cary_the_Brave

    Cary_the_Brave Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    I d
    I don't think these people know how to ask good questions.
     
  18. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I don't even know where the questions get asked at. I scrolled through the Facebook page, and I can't see anywhere that it was announced that there would be a Q&A, and as with the couple Q&As he did early in Season 4, there's people asking, "where do you ask questions?" I have no idea where they are getting pulled from, or if he's just surfing through sw.com and Facebook looking for random questions.
     
  19. Inblackestnight

    Inblackestnight Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 26, 2012
    I think this is exactly what he's doing, or more likely he delegated someone to do it. When SW.com still had its forums there was a question thread, that was created after someone noticed DF answering people's comments from that site. I couldn't say for sure but I'm guessing SW.com still gets priority for this sort of thing.
     
  20. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    I agree Ahsoka's partially to blame for obvious reasons. Her presence needs to be...managed from Season 5 leading into ROTS, because again she appears nowhere in that or the later movies. She has no role to play outside of this series, so they do need to focus on the characters who do have a further part to play. For the most part, I haven't seen anything to indicate bad relations between the Jedi and Palpatine. In the ROTS novelization its basically the Jedi vs Palpatine, trying to end the war as quickly as possible and get him out of power. Here 4 seasons in they still seem to respect and trust him. While I love the relationship between Anakin and Obi-Wan, as well as the addition of a lot of good into Anakin's personality, i'm ready to see some darkness again. I'm not saying he needs to start randomly force choking every enemy he comes across. However, TCW Anakin and ROTS Anakin are two completely different people. ROTS Anakin is far more moody. He doesn't feel that he has the Council's approval, or really any friends among the Jedi save Obi-Wan. He no longer trusts the Council or their decisions. The fact he was still a Jedi Knight irked him. His relationship with Padme was unsteady and eventually broked. etc. etc. etc. I believe if we don't see Anakin change by the end of the show that the series will have failed.

    Somewhere, I think the ROST novel, the differences between Dooku and Grevious were pointed out, along with the ways they were viewed by the people of the Republic. Dooku was respected as a man who though misguided was following his ideals. Grevious was a monster who basked in war and violence. These are 2 drastically different views that I think should be expanded upon. Dooku's the head of the CIS, so why is he the one viewed in a good light and Grevious the bad one? Why is Dooku not to blame for the actions of his army and subordinates? Grevious takes orders directly from Dooku, so why do people not blame the actions he takes on Dooku? Why is Grevious not simply seen as a soldier following orders? And etc. I think that both of these characters aren't used to their full potential in this show. Both are manipulated by a greater villain behind the scenes, in a way not that different from Anakin. Vader is a very very pitiable character when you've seen his entire story. I like to think Dooku and Grevious can be just as pitiable.


    I want to see more of the general public and their relationship with/view of the Jedi. Really they're the people who had no problem believing the Jedi were traitors and had attacked Palpatine to seize power, even though they'd fought a 3 year war to defend the Republic...that view of the Jedi doesn't line up with their actions. We should be seeing the Jedi being undermined at various turns and portrayed in a particularly bad light. I've heard that the knowledge of fallen Jedi such as Dooku and Ventress is enough to sway public opinion, however I don't really think so when the 2 greatest heroes of the Clone Wars (Anakin and Obi-Wan) are Jedi and very present figures in galactic media. When you have those two being held up as images to be respected and admired, what reason is there to think other Jedi wouldn't be like them instead of like Asajj?
     
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  21. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    1: I asked Filoni about this in one of his latter S4 chats, and all he said was that the Jedi already don't trust him because he's a politician. I think that was a lame explanation because I definitely agree that there is a major shift by the time of ROTS. Filoni has teased that by the end of S5, the Jedi will be observing a major shift in the Republic toward becoming an Empire, so maybe we will see that trend toward distrust beginning.

    2: I agree with this. I don't remember if the novelization explicitly said that Dooku was viewed respectfully, though that seemed to be Dooku's approximation of how others viewed him. I personally thought it was stupid that he was expecting Grievous to take the blame for war atrocities and that he would be pardoned. That either makes him look like a powerless fool or an enabler of Grievous'. I just think it was stupidity on Dooku's part when he's thinking about how the future is going to play out at the beginning of the ROTS novel.
     
  22. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    1. That really is a lame excuse, because I specifically remember Mace used to admire Palpatine. Obi-Wan or Yoda I believe even points this out at one point and notes how Mace's view of him has changed. By ROTS he's talking about how Palpatine's this power hungry dude who needs to be forcefully taken removed from power. And in general, i've never seen any trend among the Jedi (Of any era really) to just automatically distrust politicians. If the Republic starts to show signs of becoming an Empire I agree we'll probably see Palpatine become a little more open about who he is and the Jedi's trust in him to wane.

    2. Respected for his ideals though misguided. It said something along those lines. I agree. I never understood how he thought he was going to be pardoned from everything.
     
  23. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    I agree that there needs to be a transition between early-TCW Anakin and ROTS Anakin, but I think they've already successfully begun that transition with the slaver arc in terms of his general personality and with the Rako Hardeen arc in terms of the Anakin/Palpatine/Jedi Council dynamic.
     
  24. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    I hope so.

    As to Dooku and a pardon, remember, it's the Chancellor's prerogative (I assume), and since Sids=Palps, Dooku assumed his boss would do just that - pardon him.
     
  25. Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan

    Dan_Grievous_Tikkes_Fan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I think it said under the video that these were questions posted under a post on the official FB page of TCW.
     
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