PT "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" - Is there any good defense of this line or is it actually bad?

"Only a sith deals in SUCH absolutes"


If only he had added that one word, this whole issue would be avoided. Oh well

 

A great line and rememerable. I always have believed that GL added those lines after Bush made his "Your either with us or against us." Speech. When he was telling the world if you are not fighting the terrorists, then you are considered an enemy. There is no neutral ground. That is how I read that little dialogue scene. Obi-Wan was tasked with killing Anakin, but he wanted to find a peaceful solution to do it. One Skywalker said that line, Obi-Wan realize he could not reach Anakin with words and that Anakin viewed him only as an enemy, thus Kenobi delivered "Only a Sith deals in absolute." line.

 

He's about to fight his ex-friend to the death (or close to it). I don't think he's too worried about whether his comments are completely logical or consistent.

 

I was more interested in the kind of eclipse happening in the background (the black cloud covering the sun) rather than the line itself.

For me Obi-Wan's statement is neither true or false. It's an opinion he expressed. He could have said "only tomatoes are horrible to eat" it doesn't make his opinion any less fact for him. I think it's easy to over analyse lines such as this. On the other hand you could say that Obi-Wan is completely wrong on the matter. Remember he did say in the previous movie "impossible, the Jedi would be aware of it" at Dooku's revelations. The Jedi (even Obi-Wan) are not infallible.

 

As the previously posted video talks about though "deals" is a key word.

Yoda is quite an absolutist anyway and Lucas knows that and as usual is playing with words and dialogue to show this.

"Destroy the Sith we must." ...

and what does Obi-Wan do?

Not what Yoda says at all.

He doesn't kill Vader but Yoda would have just as he would have killed Sidious if he could have.

Once again Yoda is wrong just as he is wrong so many times.

Even when he is right his messaging is often terrible. He's the older person who means well but has forgotten how to talk to younger people.

 

The only real problem with this line is a misplaced adverb. Obi-Wan's statement is not self-contradictory. What causes the confusion is that the term absolute has 2 meanings, and Obi-Wan is using one meaning to describe Anakin and critics think he is using the other.

The 2 definitions of an absolute:

1. The view that all moral actions can only be understood in a dichotomous manner; in other words, black and white thinking.

2. The view that a quality is always true or has no restriction or exception -- i.e. all carnivores eat meat.

When Anakin says -- "either you are with me or against me" -- he's exemplifying the 1st definition; using black and white thinking. (For instance, a neutral person would neither be for or against Anakin; there are tons of exceptions that show that Anakin's logic is not sound.)

When Obi-Wan admonishes Anakin by saying -- "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -- Obi-Wan is using the 2nd definition to criticize Anakin's black and white thinking. Hence, he is using the 2nd definition of an absolute to make the point that Anakin's thinking is limited by the 1st definition which relates to absolutist thinking. It also seems pretty obvious that Obi-Wan is disappointed that Anakin is resorting to simplistic black and white logic, since Anakin's statement is logically unsound and morally dangerous.

Obi-Wan's words really mean this: "All Siths always use black and white thinking (at least with moral matters)." There is nothing wrong with this statement, and it is not self-contradictory in any way. It is like saying all bigots hate minorities; all Christians believe in God; all surfers ride waves.


The real problem with Obi-Wan's statement is where he sticks the word "only."

What Obi-Wan really means is: "A Sith only deals in absolutes." -- that is, every Sith understands reality using black and white thinking, no exceptions; If you're a Sith, then you use black and white thinking. Black and white thinking is an inherent quality of being a Sith.

Instead he says: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" -- and this actually means no other individual apart from a Sith uses black and white thinking, and this is not true. For instance, there are some people (who aren't Sith) who actually abide by black and white thinking. For instance, some people on our planet would argue, "It's always wrong for me to tell a lie, even a small little white lie that could prevent my family from being killed by an ax-murderer."


This is the real problem with Obi-Wan's statement -- a misplaced "only" -- but I'll give Obi-Wan a break for putting his modifier in slightly the wrong place. He was placed in a position where he'd have to try to kill his best friend. Grammar probably wasn't the 1st thing on his mind.


Also, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" sounds better than "A Sith only deals in absolutes."

 

I think Obi-Wan believes what he is saying. He is the "negotiator." A compromise can always be made in Obi-Wan's mind. It is contradictory because the compromise always comes with the edicts of the Jedi order in mind. He is bound by his version of goodness, and therefore a subject to absolutism himself. Absolute goodness. He can't see it this way, because in his world there exists only that goodness. This is what makes him such a good Jedi, but also what makes it a contradiction.