Clone Wars Order 66 on TCW

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by EHT, Jan 21, 2012.

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  1. aldrestjedimaster Jedi Master

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    I can see order 66 in the clone wars the series is getting darker and they even foreshadowed it with Krell.
  2. Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Grand Master

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    i doubt Lucas will let Dave do that, and personally, i hope he doesn't.

    I think we all had enough of the clone wars getting in the way of existing continuity. And besides, i'm not so sure how some of the kids would like all their favorite heros killed, let the movies break their hearts!
    Inblackestnight and Esg like this.
  3. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

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    Maybe it's not directly with the movies, but there might be a point where the show starts to pull away from Obi-wan and Anakin. Mostly episodes involving Rex and Ahsoka (and other clones) and probably Ahsoka's deepening suspicion that 'something isn't right about the Chancellor.' They likely will hear periodic reports about Ani and Obi's whereabouts (in the movie) but since they are involved in other battle missions they can't become involved. Finally Order 66 is called and we see the aftermath not shown on the movie. [face_thinking]
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  4. EHT New Films Manager

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    Lots of relevant discussion is already in that linked thread... you guys may want to pick up from there. ;)
  5. Mika-El-Hakim Jedi Padawan

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    Tarados the Rule of 2 was already broken in the CW with Ventress and the Lucas aproved Force Unleashed game.
  6. Inblackestnight Jedi Master

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    I don't believe Ventress was ever Dooku's apprentice. She wanted to be but he wouldn't allow it. She was simply a CIS assassin who happened to be a dark jedi as well.
  7. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    In both, I don't see the Rule of Two as truly breaking. To me, breaking the Rule of Two would mean that there are three or more Sith co-existing and everyone's cool with it. Like in TOR when there are 100s of Sith running around and they're all part of the Sith Empire and there are no restrictions on how many there can be. With Ventress and Starkiller there still are restrictions, hence secret apprentice. Dooku might have tried to cheat by having Savage for a secret apprentice, but if Sidious ever learned of it, Savage and possibly Dooku would suffer consequences. When Sidious was suspicious of Ventress, he ordered her killed. When he finds out about Maul and Savage he wants them dead. For the Rule of Two to break IMO, would require Sidious to be like, "oh, Maul is alive? Oh cool, he can join us and the three of us will rule the galaxy!" But in TCW, TFU, and the films, Sidious ultimately demands that the previous apprentice, or the apprentice's would-be apprentice, die before taking on a new one, enforcing the Rule of Two (Starkiller must kill Vader, Anakin must kill Dooku, Dooku must kill Ventress, Sidious must kill Maul and Savage, Luke must kill Vader).

    When it comes to the idea of Dark Acolytes, it just never made sense to me because of how Palpatine is in the films. He won't even spare the Jedi Younglings. If any survive, he's paranoid that they will become enemies down the road and so must be dealt with now. He also voices a similar sentiment in TCW when he says something along the lines of "when it comes to the Jedi, there are no innocents" (or something like that). For him to invite a large number of Dark Jedi to serve him seems out of character IMO. Like he's inviting large numbers of potential enemies, especially if he's trusting them under Dooku's command. He already demanded that he kill Asajj because he was growing suspicious of her. I can't see him being cool with Sora Bulq and all the other Dark Jedi that join the CIS. The only way I could see it is if they were used as tools (possibly to make the Republic distrust the Jedi more), but tools that would be disposed of after their purpose had been fulfilled, not long term servants. If he fears little children trained by the Jedi, I don't know how he would be cool with a bunch of Dark Jedi, especially if they grow ambitious or lest Dooku be tempted to take one or more as apprentices. Plus Dooku says he wants the destruction of the Jedi Order, not to see the Jedi Order subservient to him.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Sep 18, 2012
  8. EHT New Films Manager

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    Thanks ( @Seerow ?) for merging the threads... and this is a "must-see" thread, too, apparently. :p
    Last edited by eht13, Sep 18, 2012
  9. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Ofcourse, we need an Order 66 thread on the faves list right @eht13?
  10. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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    Agreed, on all of the above.

    The Dark Acolytes are not Sith, and not even Dooku entertains the idea that he might pick one of them to train as a true apprentice. Many are killed relatively early in the war, a nameless three going down at the Battle of Geonosis, Kadrian Sey getting taken out on Kiffu...they were too weak to show any real Sith promise, instead dispatched to kill a target here and there, and act as guards for Dooku. Tol Skorr is one of the longest surviving Acolytes, but he's stupid and brutish, and Dooku's pretty much ruled him out. Sora Bulq was more interesting, in that he was truly loyal to Dooku, out of a misplaced sense of gratitude for saving his life and "opening his eyes" to the dark side and the corruption of the Republic. He believed. And he was rewarded for that loyalty by being made Dooku's number one enforcer, and even now with TCW, he technically still is, and is carrying out Dooku's orders offscreen since he survives into the Outer Rim Sieges. But none of them were remotely Sith worthy in Dooku's eyes, except for Ventress it seems, even though most of the older material had Dooku view her as just a tool, as well. Even Savage who got the whole "We will overthrow Darth Sidious and rule the galaxy together!" speech was just getting what Dooku thought he needed to hear, I would say.
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  11. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    I am aware that the Dark Acolytes are not Sith, but the Jedi are enemies of the Sith, and the Sith are enemies of each other half the time. A large group of Force users, regardless of their light/dark affiliation, seems like a potential threat. Palpatine feared letting little Jedi younglings live. Looking at the films in isolation at the exclusion of the EU, I just can't imagine that character being cool with a bunch of Force users floating about. The Rule of Two limits infighting. So even though it may not apply to Dark Jedi directly, I would think that indirectly Palpatine wouldn't want to have potential enemies trained in the Force should any of them decide that they no longer want to follow Palpatine. Why not do away with the Rule of Two at that point? If you can confidently train Forceful beings to channel all their negative emotions for strength, but ensure that it is never directed against Palpatine, then why not train the apprentices that way too? The films always seemed to portray the Dark Side in the way that it will lead to greed, jealousy, etc. and corrupt the user. Going off the films' logic, it just seems that people like Sora Bulq, or Jerec (in the Imperial Era) would be liable to plotting against Palpatine and growing ambitious. Which to my knowledge is what Jerec did.

    And while I know Jerec wasn't a Dark Acolyte, he is still a Dark Jedi and I would think that any of the others could be subject to the same ambitions/temptations and pose a threat. And when poorly trained little kids are perceived as a threat, I wouldn't think Sidious would allow this.

    I could see them being used as a tool in the Clone Wars perhaps to further Palpatine's goals (the Jedi Order itself is used in that regard). But going into the Imperial Era, it just seems like the risks would outweigh the benefits of keeping these guys around, or anyone like them. I don't know if any of the Dark Acolytes from The Clone War survive into the Imperial Era or not, as I haven't read EU involving them, but there are still people like Jerec filling the same niche, and I just never felt that jived with the universe we see on screen or that Palpatine gave even the tiniest suggestion that a bunch of non-Sith Dark Jedi were running around in his employ.

    Palpatine does mention having spies trained in the Dark Side in TCW under his control. Though this may or may not be referring to individuals like Sora Bulq (who I wouldn't really consider a spy), but also might preclude and kind of lightsaber/telekinetics training
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Sep 18, 2012
  12. EHT New Films Manager

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    Of course. :cool:
  13. JasperMereel_ Jedi Knight

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    I'm not sure I agree with this. I have nephews that like Star Wars and seeing some of their favorite characters meeting their demise would rate as cool to them. I even have a niece that thinks that way. Plus, I don't think the Clone Wars have ruined the continuity
  14. Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Grand Master

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    I never said ruined, it just doesn't always mach up,
  15. Lazy Storm Trooper Force Ghost

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    Order 66 is one of many fallback orders for the clones in the case of emergency.
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  16. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    Um, not all, okay? Please remember there is probably nothing - movies, comics, EU, micro-series, TCW - that "we all" agree on. Otherwise, what would we have to discuss and debate?
  17. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

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    I agree. I don't think kids are that fragile either, and so what if a favorite character dies? They cry and move on and find a new character to glomp onto. [face_dunno]
  18. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Disney has been killing parents off for decades after all. Mufasa?
  19. Convor Jedi Grand Master

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    :_|
  20. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

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    Right - killing off the parents, not the young character the young kids are supposed to be identifying with.
  21. TaradosGon SWTV Mod - Like Palpatine with animals

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    I think kids' intelligence/emotional frailty is underestimated. I remember my mom's friend wouldn't let her kids go see The Phantom Menace JUST because Maul got cut in half at the end. I mean, I can understand not letting her kids (both in the 5-7 range at the time) not seeing a graphically intense film like Braveheart. But I think something like Maul getting cut in half (not depicted in a gory fashion) is anything that's going to be disturbing to kids. I used Braveheart as an example, because I remember being allowed to watch it on VHS at a relatively young age and voluntarily getting up and leaving when William Wallace's wife had her throat slit, because I couldn't handle how graphically intense realistic violence was. But I could go watch DBZ where characters are being disintegrated, having their necks broken, being cut up, etc. It was just handled in a not particularly gory fashion.

    When I think back to seeing the Star Wars films for the very first time, I think the most "disturbing" thing to me was the Rancor eating the Gammorrean. It wasn't enough to make me stop watching the film, but it was still something that made me feel uneasy to see when I was like 4 or 5. Jurassic Park was my favorite movie immediately after seeing it (and still is) and I think it's way more graphic (and still not overly so) than anything in Star Wars. Kids could handle it. I remember my friends and I wanting to play "Jurassic Park" on the playground in like 2nd grade in the following days. Again I think the most disturbing thing was the Tyrannosaurus rex eating Donald Gennaro (the lawyer) - scared me a little bit at the time, but it's not like kids can't handle it IMO. SOME might not be able to, and the parents can kind of gauge that for themselves. Though I think many underestimate what kids can handle. I mean, at the end of the day, I do believe Jurassic Park catered quite a bit to the fascination with Dinosaurs that young kids have (not the Teletubbies age group, but still some kids under 10 years old).

    Apparently not in my friend's cousin's version. The mother apparently "edited" the Disney films to even remove such violence. [face_plain] I hear the cousin has since grown up to be a "girl gone wild" at college. Lived too sheltered of a life perhaps.

    I can only imagine such butchering of the films results in The Lion King being the tale of a young cub that goes to an elephant graveyard, does not run into hyenas that want to eat him, and instead inexplicably leads him to befriend a meerkat and warthog, until Nala shows up and convinces him to return home and be king peacefully. The end. [face_dunno]
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Sep 23, 2012
  22. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I tend to think kids get underestimated quite a bit myself. I mean come one. Mufasa was killed by his own brother. The bad guys was one of the own family. I knew tons of young kids who watched Toonami. Not just DragonballZ but anime like Gundam Wing, Tenchi Muyo, Rurouni Kenshin, and Outlaw Star. Hell they briefly ran the 2003 Full Metal Alchemist anime on Toonami (And there seem to be alot of people out there who defend this version as a childhood classic) and though they took out her death they still aired what happened to poor Nina.

    Whether or not TCW will have the guts to do it is one thing but Power Rangers (freaking Power Rangers) killed off the 1st pink Galaxy Ranger in Power Rangers lost Galaxy midseason. That's one of those heroes kids are supposed to identify with.
    Last edited by Seerow, Sep 23, 2012
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  23. Legacy Jedi Endordude Jedi Grand Master

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    Well I guess your right with that one, The clone wars did kill of a few fan favorites too, like heavy and echo, they also killed of some not as popular characters to like adi. So, i guess it wouldn't make much of a difference.
  24. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    You forget to factor in Sidious's arrogance. He was never afraid of the Jedi, in fact if you knew about the aftermath of Order 66 he didn't care about the survivors because the order was already scattered and he already won. He had already bested two of the Orders greatest, why spend time hunting Jedi when you have an Empire to expand. And thats where the Inqusitors come into play. And Jerec only tried taking over the Empire only after Sidious was dead, while he was planning to ally with Spore when he was alive but that didn't go anywhere, nor is the Emperor omniscient. Lets not neglect the fact that he had non force users claiming allegiance to him betraying him more then force users. (Gentis, Trachitta, Zaarin)
    Last edited by Esg, Oct 4, 2012
  25. Spazmatron Jedi Master

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    on sids arrogance but about order 66...

    In ROTS he said "And the rest of the Jedi will be hunted down and destroyed!!!"

    Or if you are talking about after the purge some years in the future, then I agree with you're post.
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