Clone Wars Order 66 on TCW

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by EHT, Jan 21, 2012.

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  1. Esg Jedi Grand Master

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    I mean pretty much after most of the significant Jedi were slain or went into hiding. As in later into the Purge
  2. Mzukiller Jedi Master

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    Sep 5, 2012
    star 2
    All I care about is whether or not Ahsoka bites he dust.
  3. MistrX Force Ghost

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    Jun 20, 2006
    star 4
    I'm interested in her fate. Also interested how some of the clones we've gotten to know, particularly Rex and Fives, react to it. I'm assuming for the most part they'd follow orders like Cody does, but I'd still like to see those two specifically.
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  4. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    Yeah, I'm more interested the Fives and Rex's fates and how they will react if Order 66 goes down on this show than what happens to Ahsoka.
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  5. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
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    Fives was known to disobey orders, Umbara Arc is an example, Rex always follows orders
  6. MistrX Force Ghost

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    Jun 20, 2006
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    He might always follow orders, but he doesn't always do his duty as the rules require. He doesn't report Lawquane for desertion, he prevents Dogma and Tup from reporting Fives' plan to Krell, and he agrees with the decision not to execute Jesse and Fives. Rex is willing to disobey orders, though not as quick to do it as Fives is. I think that's part of his arc in the Umbara storyline.
  7. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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  8. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

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    I agree with this completely and think its part of what makes Rex such a fan favorite. I also see this as being why so many are interested in what Rex does when the order is given. I think most people can see Fives disagreeing with and not going through with the order, even if they don't believe this is what will happen. The Umbaran arc made this side of fives quite clear. Of course he could follow through on it like the majority of the clones, but IMO i see fives refusing. Rex on the other hand is the wild card - it really COULD go either way with him.

    If he disobeys, I think mot people will be relieved and excited to see what his next step is (if he can disobey and survive long enough for a next step).

    If he obeys, I think the explanation of why he does would have to be explored more than it has in the past with; these simple ideas of pre-programmed orders, etc.

    The dramatic dilemma should be amazing to watch either way.
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  9. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 6, 2013
    star 3
    In regards to Filoni's comments on exploring Order 66 and Palpatine's not so smooth execution:

    Obviously, there's Mauldalore to consider - this definitely wasn't a part of his plan and complicates things a bit. BUT, I think he'll use it beautifully to his advantage. This could be what Filoni meant and I think there's the possibility that its outcome will have major implications through the galaxy - Force sensitives (be it Sith, Dark Jedi or Jedi) are far too dangerous to the safety of the galaxy. I think the season 5 trailer shows us that seeds of distrust for the Jedi are growing within the Republic: "There are some citizens of the Republic who believe the Jedi order is not what it used to be." The Clone Wars have turned the Jedi from keepers of the peace into leaders of armies.

    I could see endless possible scenarios for Order 66 to be explored prior to its execution, including Palpatine bringing a potential Jedi threat to the senate publicly. Following the possible fallout from Mauldalore, Palpatine could present the Senate with new contingency orders be passed - including Order 66. He could show how Jedi are too powerful to be taken alive and should a coup occur, all Jedi are to be dealt with lethally.

    OR

    Order 66 could be slipped into a new law under one of over hundreds of additional provisos and clauses. That way, it could be passed and implicated legally and no one would really know about it. A few senators may read the fine print and discover it odd, bring it to a Jedi or two's attention, start the Jedi temple rumor mill going and by ROTS, the council becomes very suspicious of Palpatine's motives. Its implication wouldn't be made public knowledge but it could be in the form of a high ranking officials debrief on new rules and regulations - a quarterly SOP revisions meeting or what not for GAR clone commanders and captains and possibly even Republic Naval officers.
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  10. Mifunela Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    In the comics Palpatine is fairly unconcerned about all the Jedi running around post Order 66. I wonder how CW or it's spinoff is going to handle it.
  11. Seerow SWTV★Manager

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    I love Rex. There are alot of things that make him a great fan favorite character. The guy isn't a stop sign. He is relatable.

    Its possible I relate to Rex on some strange level. Now I've never been a soldier but several of my family members have served in the military, Rex started off seeming like the kinda person who never had to think to much about anything other than what he's good at until he's challenged to change which is kinda like me. He also seems like the kinda person who either underthinks or overthinks stuff and tends get underestimated then comes from the bottom and knocks it out. Thats like me. I'm not really all that deep of a thinker. I do tend to get outthinked more often and then put my head in my hands and beat myself up wondering why I'm not up to par with everybody else but that's more where I start relating to Domino Squad. I can be hard on myself about that. Happens to Rex to however.

    For now Rex can be a hero. As a hero for the kiddies to look up to and want to be like you could say he is a more obtainable aspiration as a pretty ordinary man, a human soldier even though he is a clone. When compared to Jedi like Anakin and Obi-wan. I dunno if that makes sense. Then there is the fact we don't know what happens to him. He could go either way, both have been foreshadowed.

    I think Rex and Fives (Fives is practically like Rex's Son, IMO) have both been introduced for the exploration of order 66 in TCW. I'm always excited to see the next step with either of them.

    I think Mauldalore could certainly play into Order 66 and help bring regular folks and senators alive to turn on the Jedi. Its an interesting setup. It doesn't seem like alot of people know the difference between a Sith/dark Jedi and a Jedi IU. They don't know Red vs. Blue lightsaber. They just know lightsaber means Jedi. So, if someone with a lightsaber goes in with an army and practically sets a planet on fire. I can hear the, "Oh Lothos Minor, a Jedi invaded that planet and broke it. Their government is gone and the people are starving there? Can you believe it? I know those Jedi with their fancy magic tricks were bastards all along! But it was just a rogue and they have guarded piece for eons? No, the war is corruption them, those wizards can't be trusted." That's some stuff right there.
    Last edited by Seerow, Jan 8, 2013
  12. EHT New Films Manager

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    Bumping this thread for new Order 66 discussion after the Tup hints shown in the "TCW cancellation announcement" video...
  13. EHT New Films Manager

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    I don't know what to make of the Order 66 hints that this preview contained. I agree with those who said it looks like some accidental (or experimental?) premature Manchurian Candidate type of thing; Tup is on full autopilot when he says "a good soldier follows orders" and fires at the Jedi. And of course, this goes against the official explanation before, which is that they were simply "following orders without question" if they came from the top of the GAR (the Chancellor), as per an order that they had been taught during training.
  14. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 28, 2003
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    I know that the previous explanation was just Clones obeying orders without question (as Lama Su said they would), but TCW undermined that.

    My issue was that in ROTS when Order 66 is given, all the clones seem to be on "auto pilot" in responding to Palpatine as "my Lord."

    I can't speak for the novels or comics, but never on screen has Palpatine ever been referred to as "lord" except as his Sith persona. On top of that, the concept of a "lord" seems incredibly undemocratic, more akin to a lord/vassal or master/slave relationship. Had Palpatine already declared an Empire and the clones now addressed him as "lord," that would be less conspicuous to me. But so far as the clones would know (under the old explanation), Palpatine is simply informing the clones that there has been a Jedi Rebellion against the Republic, and I thought it was horribly out of place that the clones would just all start calling Palpatine their lord in that moment.

    As some kind of brainwashed, subconscious trigger I think it makes more sense - both to reign in the independence the clones have been shown to have in TCW and to account for why Palpatine is their lord all of a sudden.

    And if it is a Manchurian Candidate style thing, then Rex and Five's independence would possibly prove irrelevant if their will can be overridden.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 12, 2013
  15. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    If you're looking only at the movies, then we never see the clones address Palpatine in any other fashion. That may very well have been the approved style of address for the troops. It's not all that out of place, considering Padme was referred to as "My lady" numerous times throughout the films, even as a senator. The Revenge of the Sith novel appears to corroborate that with the troopers addressing Bail as "My lord" as well.
  16. Coric Force Ghost

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    Jan 19, 2011
    star 4
    Yeah that thing with Tup was strange.
  17. JackG Force Ghost

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    Aug 15, 2011
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    I really hope it isn't brainwashing; the notion of the clones being good guys being forced to do something against their will is nauseating to me. I think that the clones were just following orders faithfully and without question is a much more interesting idea. Don't simplifyit for the kids, don't make evil black and white.
  18. TrandoJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2011
    star 4
    I like the idea they were just following orders too. I could see brainwashing testing being a idea, as a experiment on a few clones. But I don't want all the clones to be brainwashed and forced to act against their will and thats how Order 66 was explained. They were given a order by their leader and followed it.

    That makes the stories more interesting when there are Clones who disobey the order.
  19. CaptainRex115 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2013
    star 3
    Maybe Tup was just having a meltdown and after what happened with krell he wanted to take out a jedi? probably not but who knows. I agree, I dont like the brainwashing idea. I liek following orders, then we have a few clones who dont follow the order which i always thought was very interesting. Brainwashing kinda defeats the purpose
  20. EHT New Films Manager

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    Yeah, I'm more on the side of liking the "following orders" thing than the "being brainwashed / programmed like a Manchurian candidate" thing too. One other point I've mentioned before about Order 66 (in the ROTS context) is how Palpatine says to Cody (and maybe others that we don't hear) that "the time has come" before he says "Execute Order 66". This, to me, has always seemed to imply the possibility of some foreknowledge of this event on the part of the clones, or at least the clone commanders. It's not just knowledge of the Order itself, it's an expectation that this Order would come down from the Chancellor sooner or later. That also seems to go along with how the commanders mostly just nod to their troops and the next step is understood. That makes it more chilling, but it also leaves it open to the idea that some clones could refuse to follow it (not that we see any in ROTS actually refuse, though).
  21. Jordan1Kenobi Host of EUC Battle of... Games

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    "The time has come Cody" definitely makes it seem like the Clones knew about it all along, but that statement can be false after seeing the trailer for season six, because Tup doesn't actually know what's going on with his head, as he's banging it like you do when you get a headache, and his tone changes when he says "A good Clone follows orders". I did find it quite disturbing at the disgruntled tone of his voice when he said "Jedi...", like suddenly the Jedi was the enemy an he didn't care about the Battle Droids anymore.

    Fives was shocked when Tup shot the Jedi, and you could tell he definitely didn't know why he did it, so the Clones didn't have any knowledge of Sidious' plans at this point, unless they were all pretending like they had no idea why Tup did it, but that's unlikely. All the evidence is pointing towards mind control, plus as someone else pointed out yesterday, Tup's eyes apparently changed colour, and the last time we saw a Clones eyes change was when they were under mind control from the brain worms.

    Sure mind control seems like an odd idea, but I think it might work. I think I'd rather have a different solution where it gives the opportunity to show some of the Clones, like Rex and Fives not wanting to follow Sidious' orders, but I don't know how they are going to be able to do that if mind control is the solution, unless some of the stronger willed Clones can fight it, which would be a very interesting aspect to show. Rex is surely a stronger willed Clone as we've seen throughout five seasons of TCW, because unlike Cody and Wolffe for example, he spends a lot of time with his commanders and has actually gotten to know Anakin and Ahsoka really well, where as Cody and Wolffe have focused more on fighting the battles all the time and getting the job done, sure they care for their commanders, but not as much as some of the 501st.
  22. Fives_Says_No_To_Sixes Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 6, 2013
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    Yea, I don't really know what I want - I do agree that the film set it up in a very confusing manner. Didn't Traviss' RC novels cover the whole "the time has come" angle and basically come right out and say that it was something that all the clones knew about before hand (I'm thinking of the whole Aayla Secura death). So Traviss comes out in the EU and says it was a previously planned and revealed operation between Palps and the Clones and GL comes out and says it wasn't brainwashing. Then we have the Umbaran arc that shows that they don't always follow Orders and now we have this Tup sequence implying a sort of Manchurian Candidate thing...I don't know what version I like best...

    ...as long as Fives (and possibly Rex) opposes it and refuses to participate, I'll be happy. Whether that be by a) being ignorant of Palpatine's preemptive plan b) refusing to follow the Orders based on his own judgement c) fighting the "headache" and beating it (being one of the few with strong enough wills to resist it).

    I always hope for some sort of situation that would cause Palpatine to draft up the Order within the military as a confidential contingency that he relayed to the commanding Clones later during the war after several incidents (that he manipulated) suggested the need for such a contingency. For example, many Jedi acting out against the chancellor/senate's orders b/c of their ethical ambiguity and being portrayed in the public as "another General Krell." if enough Jedi defied the military takeovers near the end of the war, it could Justify Palpatine calling a top secret military conference to implement the Order if "their suspicions about the Jedi's treasonous actions" were proved true at some point. Then after Windu confronted him and disfigured him in ROTS, he would call the commanders saying "the time has come" i.e. "They have done what we suspected - they're plotting to take over" "Execute Order 66."

    Maybe the Tup incident was an experiment to see whether or not he'd be able to control some of the clones who stood up against the Order...it could have worked, or not depending how they paint it...
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  23. 07jonesj Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2010
    star 4
    Everyone should remember we're seeing this clip completely out of context. I know we all love to speculate but it's good to keep that in mind. [face_peace]
  24. Death T Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 1
    Maybe Rex obeys the order for the sheer shock value. Get the audience to care about these characters, believe they are the exceptional guys who don't go along with order 66 and then bam: turns out they're Jedi killers too. Whichever way they go should be interesting.
  25. Why_So_Serious Jedi Grand Master

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    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    Ugh. Brainwashing? Really Fioni? Really? I thought that portraying the clones as so individual to start with was a mistake, but this... I don't even think I can find words to describe how horrible an explanation this would be. Come on, cut the BS. We all know that these guys will soon be the bad guy's evil henchmen who get gunned down by the heroes. We know how all these "freedom and individuality" morality tales will end. "Execute Order 66." So show it. These guys will willingly murder their generals after three words from Palpatine and will enforce a brutal regime of slavery, terror, and genocide for over two decades. So show it. They aren't the good guys. They're the bad guys in waiting, at best.

    I sincerely hope the context comes up with a good explanation for this, or plot holes big enough to drive a semi truck through will be opening up. Come on guys, TCW already has far too much kiddy crap in it. Let's not add to the list, shall we?
    Last edited by Why_So_Serious, Mar 13, 2013
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