Original Saga characters that have benefited from TCW series?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by kryptonjedi, Feb 17, 2013.

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  1. SpecialOpsUnit Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 1, 2007
    star 4
    Prepare to have your hopes high after The Citadel then have it plummet with Counterattack and then back up with Citadel Rescue. A good trilogy overall but could of been sooooo much better.
  2. Zabrak 2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 7, 2012
    star 2
    When is Ahsoka in that council court?
    And when is she in some room with the chancellor above her?

    Does this mean Ahsoka survives?
    Last edited by Zabrak 2, Feb 18, 2013
  3. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

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    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
  4. Legolas Skywalker Force Ghost

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    Sep 3, 2012
    star 6
    Way to spoil something without the tags. :p
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  5. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    Cross-posted from The Jedi Who Knew Too Much discussion thread:


    ...


    I also saw some complaints about Anakin telling Ahsoka that revenge is not the Jedi way and Ahsoka telling Barriss how Anakin says the Jedi struggle is to move past their emotions. I think there's some misunderstanding here about the nature of humanity, or at least the nature of teaching. No one is perfect. We all have our ideals we seek to live up to, yet routinely fail at. This line is an insight into Anakin's well-natured being as described by Obi-Wan to Luke in Ep. IV. Even if we've seen him lose his temper and do a li'l dark side dippin', he still takes the Jedi Code seriously, sees value in it, and wants to pass it on. Which leads me to the other insight we get from this line. For all his flaws, Anakin is at least not a bad teacher, and the Jedi Council weren't complete idiots for thinking that giving him a Padawan would alter his perspective and focus for the more pure. This is something this show has gotten right fairly often, but having this example placed here, with what happens next in the episode, gives it and the whole episode some extra impact. The capacity of Anakin (or any of us) to say these things and believe them without always holding up to them is demonstrated succinctly with Ahsoka's line, "I guess I've fooled you like I have everyone else." This also relates to a larger point about Anakin's eventual transformation this episode illustrates really well I'll talk about at the end.

    ...


    There's another moment when a character behaves in a believably balanced way when Anakin wants to get in to see Ahsoka. He's clearly pissed and quickly losing his temper. When I first saw this and he clenched his fist you have no idea how ready I was for **** to get real. When the guards step right behind him, it feels a lot like Ep. III. Just because he's a Jedi doesn't mean they think twice about following orders. And then when he backs down instead of engaging them, we get our believable balance for the character. He's not defaulting into dark side rage mode, he's still trying to follow the Jedi way. This also relates to a larger point about Anakin's eventual transformation this episode illustrates really well I'll talk about at the end.

    ...


    I think Anakin was justified in not jumping through all the clones to personally snatch up Ahsoka. He was right, that wouldn't look good for her. And when he pleads with her to come back to the Jedi Council with him and tell them what's going on, it's very much related to Ep. III and specifically his last moment as a Jedi Knight and choice to join the dark side. When I first saw Ep. III, I thought Mace was right for wanting to kill Chancellor Palpatine, and didn't see how Anakin could possibly justify what he did. But since then, I've come to feel strongly that Mace was wrong because he was failing to live up to the Jedi Code. Anakin has his moments of weakness in terms of following the dogma, but ultimately he trusts the Jedi way in a very idealistic sense. Just like he tells Mace to stick to the Jedi Code and go through the proper channels instead of killing Palpatine, he tells Ahsoka to go through the proper channels by giving herself up and trusting the Jedi Council to come to the right decision. It's ironic because the ultimate downfall of the Jedi arises from their failure to stick to their own rules. They say they're peace-keepers and not soldiers but then become generals in an army and they're willing to assassinate the supreme chancellor even while under the impression that he can be captured alive. In a way, Anakin's individual failures prior to his open embrace of the dark side are of a much, much smaller scale than the failures of the Jedi. There's a significant connection between Anakin imploring Ahsoka to go by the book and Anakin opposing Mace's attempted assassination of Palpatine in Ep. III. And just when I thought TCW was getting too far away from the heroic good-guy Anakin of S1 and most of S2 and exponentially showing his dark side too frequently over S3, S4, and his S5 appearances so far, they go ahead and make a perfect showcase of how even in his last moments as a Jedi he was someone who had a noble philosophy and had to be masterfully manipulated into joining the dark side, not an arrogant ass who didn't have very far to fall as the PT alone makes it feel. This character has so much more nuance. Obviously this arc is going to be critical to the character of Ahsoka and there are many exciting threads dangling with that right now, but with this final moment in this episode we've already gotten one of the most important insights into the character of Anakin Skywalker and what the hell happened to Luke's dad and why in all of Star Wars.

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...cussion-thread.50009548/page-34#post-50456199
    Last edited by Dark Lord Tarkas, Feb 18, 2013
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  6. JackG Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2011
    star 4
    Not really a spoiler considering it's from an official video, but that doesn't make it any less rude, or irrelevant.
  7. CloneTrooperFox Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 1
    I am currently watching season 3. I cannot watch the new episodes as i do not have cable. But so far Greedo has by far been promoted the most!!! I loved that they had almost a whole episode just for him!!!

    In reality I would say from what I have seen up to at this point....

    1. Anakin Skywalker- Better than the kid from phantom menace!

    2. The Clones- You get to actually get to know and appericate commander cody, and the rest of the clones. Instead of saying... oh look at all the clones. I have no idea who 99.999999 percent of them are. But they looked cool in episodes II and III

    3. Obi Wan- I was never really sure of Obi Wan until Clone Wars. I always liked the guy, but you get to know that the guy is very caring and respectful even more in the clone wars.
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  8. AkashKedavra_93 Emperor of the Seven Realms and the First Dragons

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    Anakin Skywalker-The annoying twerp from The Phantom Menace, the whiny brat from Attack of the Clones, and the emo moron from Revenge of the Sith is an incredibly likable, relatable character. This is the Anakin that should have defined the prequels. I actually give a care about him now.
    Obi-Wan Kenobi-His brotherly relationship with Anakin is expounded upon and his relationship with Satine deepens his character beyond anything I could have imagined when the show started. Having such a clear contrast to Anakin also sells some of the contrast in their personalities and their relationship very well.
    Jar-Jar Binks-He was the least annoying part of Shadow Warrior; he was actually, surprisingly funny.
    Wilhuff Tarkin-Greatly helps connect the Prequel Era to the Imperial Era and his sheer d******** nature is an incredibly well-done bridge between the trilogies. He's a despicably greater character now, and his wedge-status between Ahsoka and Anakin is very interesting.
    Shaak Ti-A prime example of how background Jedi have become more expressed in the show, some more than others, but Shaak Ti's conversation with Lama Su in Clone Cadets is a prime moment of the show.
    Last edited by AkashKedavra_93, Feb 20, 2013
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  9. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
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    Again, cross-posted from The Jedi Who Knew Too Much discussion thread:

    ... Ep. III by itself can easily give the impression that Anakin only sided with Palpatine and killed Mace because he wanted to save Padme. Yes, he tells Mace to follow the Jedi way, but his self-interest in the matter is clear and probably the single biggest plot-point of the film. Also, as was pointed out earlier, Anakin goes against the Jedi way himself by decapitating Darth Tyranus towards the beginning of the film.

    I, for one, am not thrilled with that portrayal of Anakin. Actually, "not thrilled" is putting it too mildly. I think it's a betrayal of the story told in the OT I was so mystified by as a child before the PT came out, the story that Luke's dad was really noble hero and good friend who was seduced by the dark side of the Force. A revenge killing followed by wiping out the entire Jedi Order on the off-chance that his wife is (a) doomed to die and (b) a Sith Lord can save her isn't exactly my idea of being seduced. It's more like intentionally opting to turn evil for completely selfish and unjustified reasons.

    Enter into the picture TCW. We see that when Anakin has his own suppressed emotions deeply roused he can be pushed to temporarily take shallow dips into the dark side, like in Brain Invaders, the S4 slaver arc, and Friends and Enemies. However, this is balanced in a way it's not in the PT by how he interacts with Ahsoka. When it's not his own deep-seeded personal issues on the line, he gives sensible advice on adhering to the Jedi Code even when it's difficult (signaling that he really believes in it even if he can't always abide by it), which we learn of secondarily through Ahsoka's conversations with others in episodes like Weapons Factory and The Academy, and also first-hand through Ahsoka's conversations with Anakin in episodes like Storm Over Ryloth and the S5 Onderon arc.

    What makes The Jedi Who Knew Too Much a step even beyond that and such an important piece of the portrayal of Anakin Skywalker's character is that for the first time we see him giving relatively level-headed advice to follow the Jedi Code by-the-book even when it's difficult while being confronted with a situation that has to be emotionally tearing him up and straining his attachment issues to the breaking point. That's never been the case before, prior to this episode he only ever did that in situations he was emotionally detached from. Despite his emotional involvement in the situation, he still thinks the best option is to adhere strictly to the Jedi Code and put his trust in the bureaucracy of the Jedi Order and the Republic that the right result will come out of it. This is exactly what happens when he kills Mace Windu to save Palpatine, it just doesn't seem like it if you're only going off of the PT. He finds himself in a moral dilemma that rips him apart emotionally, and errs on the side of trusting the Jedi Code by-the-book. Yes, there's still the killing of Darth Tyranus, but that wasn't a situation where he had to choose between two sides both of which he considered himself aligned with. That is the case with Mace/Palpatine and with Ahsoka/Jedi Council in this episode. With this part of his back-story filled in by The Jedi Who Knew Too Much, it no longer seems like he readily turned evil for a prospect of saving his wife. Now it's infinitely more believable that he was legitimately trying to uphold the Jedi way when he made the decision he did. Now it actually feels like he had to be seduced and tricked, rather than just making a selfish and unjustifiable decision. Obviously Padme still plays a big part in the decision, but it no longer seems like the only reason he made that decision. It makes his tension with the Jedi Council in Ep. III feel less about a personal vendetta over promotions and more about them (not) practicing what they preach. This casts the character in a whole new light. He really thought he was doing the right thing, not making a personal trade-off in a piss-poor attempt to justify doing the wrong thing.

    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...cussion-thread.50009548/page-39#post-50459241
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  10. CloneTrooperFox Jedi Master

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    Jan 27, 2013
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  11. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

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    One smaller interaction that I've liked has been the Mace-Anakin dynamic. It is made clear in most of their scenes in TCW that Mace still sees Anakin as a subordinate (as opposed to an equal, as he sees Obi-Wan and others) and does not appreciate his cocky demeanor. This goes a long way in clarifying the rooted distrust and dislike Mace shows towards him in ROTS, shown most clearly in his glare even after Anakin apologizes for his outburst.
  12. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I would say Darth Maul benefitted more than anyone.
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  13. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
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    star 5
    Just looking at the characters that have been mentioned, I can't say I agree that any of them have benefited from TCW.
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  14. rumblewagon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2004
    star 4
    *gasp*
  15. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    It'd be interesting for the discussion to here why that is. People gave lots of reasons for listing who they did. I'm curious why every single one might be invalid.

    Personally, I'm interested in what would make PT-only Anakin a better fulfillment of the story told in the OT than PT+TCW Anakin, I have a hard time seeing that.
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  16. Dark Lord Tarkas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2011
    star 4
    I can't believe I put "here" instead of "hear" in that post. Freaking limited edit times... :mad:
  17. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Anakin - He's simply a different character altogether, so he doesn't even count.
    Darth Maul - Is now even dumber. At least before there was a chance he wasn't dumb, now we have absolute proof that he is. Plus he's a sniveling *****. Oh, and personally I prefer silent assassin type, anyway.
    Obi-Wan - Just gets his ass handed to him over and over, plus is subordinate to a Jedi Knight and a Jedi Padawan. Oh, the Satine relationship and his reaction to Maul make him look worse imo. PT Obi-Wan really set the bar high imo, and TCW didn't reach it.
    Tarkin - Same guy he's always been, except with a lower rank than previously thought and a poor voice actor.
    Sidious - Can't really improve on perfection.
    Padme - lol
    Dooku - lol
    R2 - I hate all his episodes, and I actually started to get annoyed with him in the latest droid arc. First time that's happened.
    Jar Jar - Even dumber, with a terrible voice actor early on.
    Grievous - lol
    Tarpals - Terrible "sacrifice" death, no characterization prior
    Boba Fett - lol
    Bossk - Now speaks Basic, follows teenage Boba
    Aurra Sing - can no longer use the Force
    Dengar - not only lame but now totally incompetent
    Plo Koon - didn't see this one, gonna give TCW this one simply because Plo was hardly touched by the EU
    clones - lol
    battle droids - lol
    Jabba - Rotta
    Yularen - Iffy. I'm willing to give it to TCW.
    Cody - lol
    Sy Snootles - TCW gets this one too, she was lame in ROTJ
    Shaak Ti - Nope, she's only had one significant appearance IIRC and it wasn't anything special.

    So that's three I glanced over.
    Last edited by CT-867-5309, Feb 21, 2013
  18. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    Thank God for the first, and he at least is not so different from OT Anakin.

    Really Obi-wan in the PT sets the bar high ? ??
    In TPM he does nothing sit in the ship and complain
    In Clones he decides to act out of character when ever the plot needs him too.
    In Sith he seems to say and do really stupid things "Only Sith deal in Absolutes" "Palpatine is evil"
    Yes Ewan was great with what he was given but the actual character was not that high.
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  19. CT-867-5309 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
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