Speculation Original Trilogy Aliens vs. Prequel CGI Aliens

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by BOBAFLEXX, Jan 23, 2013.

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  1. BOBAFLEXX Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2003
    The thing that bothered me about the Prequel Trilogy was the over-abundance of CGI Aliens. The Pod Race Scene, the Gungans, Geonosis, etc. The Original Trilogy had a more "real world" feel with Aliens. The Cantina scenes and the beasts of burden milling around Mos Eisley lent a realism to the feel of the film as background fodder. As a kid seeing ROTJ for the first time, I was enamoured with everything about the occupants of Jabba's Palace.

    The new Trilogy really needs to bring that gritty "real world" authenticity that was present in the first three films. There are so many unique creatures in the Cantina scenes, they almost beg for more development. Bom Vimdim, Dr. Evazan, Snaggletooth, Feltipern Travagg, Hem Dazon, etc.

    Here is a site that identifies many of these aliens:
    http://cantinacustoms.tripod.com/id18.htm





    Thoughts?
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  2. yggdrasil311 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2004
    star 3
    Yup. Needs to be more gritty. If they use CGI let it be like the Hobbit or LOTR. Not all shiny like the PT.
  3. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    The best alien/creature might be the Rancor. Maybe not alien but close enough right?
  4. LunarMoth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2012
    star 4
    "Real" Yoda looked way better too!
    vinsanity, Sitara, Heero_Yuy and 4 others like this.
  5. Episode Swag Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2013
    star 1
    I'm on the fence about this one. Cause while it may look better at times for aliens to be puppets, it's very limiting as to what the alien can do. The best example I can think of is Yoda himself. As a puppet, he looked magnificent yes. But as a cgi character, he was able to portray an array of expressions in his face that just would not be possible in his puppet form. And no matter how good one may try, it would be impossible to make a puppet Yoda jumping around with a lightsaber.

    From a distance, I do agree and think that the aliens look better. But when up close, with their faces not moving at all and stuff like the Quara in Mos Eisley it just looks fake to me. Another example would be the laughing rat thing in Jabba's Palace. I swear that thing had only one expression.

    There needs to be a balance here, one similar to how the hobbit was handled for sure. CGI is a great tool and should be used to do what a puppet/costume/set/ect can't do. But it should not replace old school costumes entirely.

    And heck, there were a lot of dressed up senators and extras in the prequels too. Did everyone forget them?
    Dranem, Sitara, Palpatine2016 and 5 others like this.
  6. my kind of scum Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2002
    star 4
    I actually preferred a lot of the alien design in the prequels. Things like Watto and Sebulba were quite welcome to me - not every alien race is going to evolve to look like humans wearing a mask and gloves.

    Yes, there were elements of the OT aliens that made them look more realistic, but I think there has to be a mix of practical costuming and alien designs that just can't be done practically - and I think that's a mix that the PT actually handled pretty well.
    Dranem, DarthBoba, Alexrd and 4 others like this.
  7. Doug625 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 9, 2012
    star 1
    Hopefully they come up with a nice blend of puppets, costumes, and CGI. For close shots avoid the CGI and use it in action scenes or when multiple "aliens" are shown. Even though by today's standards the costumes and/or puppets of the OT look a little fake, they still felt more "real" than some of the obviously CG creatures in the PT. For example Gollum in LOTR, or even Davey Jones in POTC look really good, and it's been over 10 years since the PT so I am sure things have advanced.
    Darth kRud likes this.
  8. Pro Scoundrel Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 4
    I can't say that I think anything in the OT looks fake. I definitely think the OT looks more real than most of the PT. For instance, Chewbacca looks better in the OT to me. I think this is because everything looked too clean. Things didn't often look lived in. Of the PT creatures, I think Watto looked the best.
    vinsanity and Heero_Yuy like this.
  9. Panakas_Dawg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2004
    star 5
    CGI is another ****ing tool in an artist's toolkit to realize a directorial vision. PT vs OT, blah blah blah. Really? It's the 21st century and no one is going to revert to claymation, puppets, stop motion, and random stunt arms in furry sleeves alone. The PT had a wide mixture of real fx and CGI fx all blended together to create a truly vast range of places and beings, more so than had ever been done before, imo.

    Please give this **** a rest. Whine about your lost childhood, stolen by the prequels, elsewhere. They've been made, they're on disc, they're here to stay. Get over it and move on.

    And please don't any whiners sit next to me at the midnight screening.
  10. Graphic Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 2
    I think the OT Effects worked so well, because (in Georges Mind) theyre posssibilities were so limited back in the day.

    So they were forced to worked very hard on every detail to create something unique, and that fits George imagination just so.

    CGI is unlimited, you can (almost) do what you want. And maybe thats a huge lack of creativity. There are no question pops up in your mind; how can i do that, how could it work. Today you just do it.
  11. JoinTheSchwarz Comms Admin & Community Manager

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2002
    star 8
    You can have both. CGI allows you to create non-humanoid aliens, and that's always a welcome thing.
  12. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
    star 4
    I love the diversity of the aliens in the PT, and the imagination of the designs. And of the OT as well.
  13. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    Personnaly, I never really liked the whole CGI thing.
    I agree that the aliens of the OT looked better. They felt more real.
    I think the aliens on the Jabba set and the Cantina set are great!
    I like them way better than the Gungans and the Geonosians in the PT.
    Newer is not necessarily better.
    Nw things do not necessarily replace older things.
    At the beginning of Episode 3 (the battle over Coruscant), the first thing I thought was: wow, that is a lot of CGI!
    Last edited by General Immodet, Jan 24, 2013
  14. windu4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
    Who hurt you, Panaka?
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  15. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    I hate modern advances in storytelling. I want the AT-ATs in this to actually be slower than in ESB. I hope they draw the aliens and vehicles in stick figure and use a flip-book to make them move and shoot the flip-book onto an 8mm camera so it has that nostalgic 'shot in the backyard' quality to it.
  16. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    The gritty real world authenticity of wolfman and walrusman was staggering the first time I saw the film. Not since Tokyo Story had I seen such on screen realism.
  17. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    Fine. Your sick of people bashing the PT and I'm sick of Star Wars looking like a cartoon.
    vinsanity likes this.
  18. A Chorus of Disapproval New Films Riot Deterrent

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2003
    star 7
    Then avoid Return of the Jedi at all costs...!!!
  19. Lord Chazza Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    I hated that! I always thought Yoda was beyond Lightsabers and beyond fighting, kind of a God like figure. Once he starts waving his Lightsaber around I kind of feel he has been degraded. Can you guys understand that? Maybe I'm just weird.

    As for the aliens. Well. It's not so much CGI vs puppets that's the problem, it's the lack of diversity. You know. Kamino is all Kaminoans. Kashyyyk is all Wookies. Naboo is all Humans. Endor is all Ewoks etc etc. The cantina scene in ep4 is great because you have the kind of diversity you'd expect from a galaxy with faster than light travel. If the CGI is used well to create a more diverse Star Wars universe then I'm all for it. I didn't have any particular problem with the aliens in the PT. It was more the way they were used. Jedi poodoo anyone.
    Last edited by Lord Chazza, Jan 24, 2013
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  20. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    =D==D==D==D==D=^:)^^:)^^:)^^:)^^:)^=D==D==D==D==D=^:)^^:)^^:)^^:)^^:)^

    I disagree. I think it frees you up to be even more creative. The sheer scope and diversity in the prequels blows me away every time I watch it. I love the fact that there is almost nothing an artist can think of that can't be realized. It gets abused sometimes but I think the PT balanced practical effects and CGI well.

    And Gungans!
  21. Episode Swag Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2013
    star 1
    Well Yoda was described as a great warrior and powerful Jedi in episode 5. So he was a fighter to an extent. One could argue that he should have used much more force in the fight, which I don't necessarily disagree with. But it seems like his jumps did use the force a bit.

    Not trying to start an argument there, it's just my opinion.

    As for the diversity of planets, I think it was realistic that a lot of planets had a vast majority of one alien species. I mean that's how a lot of countries in our world work, it's just in places like the US where there's tons of diversity.
    Last edited by Episode Swag, Jan 24, 2013
  22. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    I wish the Yoda/Dooku battle had been longer.
  23. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I always find it funny when people come with the argument that puppets are "more real" than CGI, how Star Wars must the only exception in modern cinema where CGI should be avoided, and how people criticize the prequels for using CG while praising and gushing over flicks like the Avengers and LotR...
    eht13, Episode Swag and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  24. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    The practical alien masks of the OT just dont do it for me anymore.

    They have a certain charm in how they were created and for background characters they work great. But, Davey Jones is a prime example of how a CG character well-done can squash anything a practical mask can do.

    The problem with the PT is most of the CG aliens weren't up to that caliber. To be fair though, Davey came a full year after the final PT film so tech had to evolve.

    Personally, I like the idea of hybrid characters that are a blend of CG and practical. However, those are very few and far between.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Jan 24, 2013
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  25. Darth Swede Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 1
    I'm also kind of on the fence on this one. I can partially agree with the OP, that some of the aliens in the PT looked a bit cartoony to me. I'm specifically thinking about several of the podracers. On the other hand, there are some great aliens in the PT, for instance Watto, the Geonosians and the tall aliens on Utapau. So I guess that the design concept is more important than how it is realized. If someone says "I want 20 new aliens on my desk tomorrow morning", some of them will be less thought through. But I agree that puppets, at least some times, come off as more real if done well. For instance, I think that ROTJ Jabba is by far the best one, definitely better than Jabba in the special edition of ANH. Jabba in ROTJ has a great presence, there is no question that he is there in the room with the others.
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