...originals vs. prequel trilogy, at last the truth!...

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by flowerlandsmarty, Dec 7, 2008.

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  1. flowerlandsmarty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2008
    ...some of you may be familiar with chris pirillo...
    ...he streams 24 hours a day, talking tech and whatnot...
    ...i posted an essay to his blog...
    ...entitled "top 5 reasons the prequels are just as awesome as the original trilogy"...
    http://chris.pirillo.com/2008/12/05/star-wars-prequels-vs-the-original-trilogy/
    ...feel free to read it...
    ...and please comment at the bottom of the page...
    ...even if you disagree...
    ...i need as much feedback as i can get!...
  2. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Well, he calls Luke a sissy for no reason and then goes on to defend the awkwards love scenes with "oh he is so naive" and "why don't you complain about the bad love scenes in other films"? My answer: because I don't watch those films you moron.
    Anyway, that wasn't very convincing.
  3. flowerlandsmarty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2008
    ...i call luke a sissy because compared to obi-wan hes not exactly a badass...
    ...and it takes him all the way up until ROTJ to wise up...
    ...and i found the prequels very engaging...
    ...im just calling it like i see it...
    ...people judge the prequels by a different measuring stick...
  4. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Does this even need a thread? Everyone has their own opinion on which is better so it is not going to change anything.
  5. flowerlandsmarty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2008
    ...i would just like peoples opinions...
    ...and to share my thoughts...
    ...a lot of people just jump on a thought bandwagon...
    ...without considering what they actually think...
    ...if i can provide a new way of looking at something...
    ...then one person, might end up liking star wars that little bit more...
    ...you dont have to agree with me...
  6. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    Well, then here is my opinion. PT is overall pretty good, but I prefer the OT trilogy. ROTS though is my second favorite in the whole saga. Episode I and II were good, but were weak in certain spots.

    overall rankings

    ESB
    ROTS
    ANH
    ROTJ
    TPM
    AOTC
  7. Black-Tiger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2008
    star 3
    "They find any justification for dissatisfaction, but what they are really upset about is their own inability to enjoy the movies like they did as kids (on an innocent, awestruck level). They want their youth back. And when Star Wars doesn?t provide that, they get angry - angry at themselves. You don?t see seven year-old?s moaning and wailing about the quality of dialogue. They just enjoy the movie. Just like so many of you did as youngsters. You ignored the flaws in the original Star Wars films because you enjoyed them. George Lucas was never the world?s greatest wordsmith, and never claimed to be. Episodes 4, 5, and 6 don?t exactly read like Shakespearian sonnets, but people willfully ignore as much when bashing the prequels."

    He is soooo wrong. Is he trying to say that, because I hate the Prequels I've gotten old? Is he trying to say that ANH and ESB are as dumb and silly as the Prequels? I still love both ANH and especially ESB almost as much as I did when I was little, although the dumbed down infantile Prequels and to a certain extent ROTJ have tainted them a tad. It's not me getting older that caused Lucas to go off on some Alice in Wonderland tangent, but maybe it's Lucas himself who's gotten old and silly, with his teddy bears beating up on Stormtroopers, giant talking pink loop eared bunnies, babies flying starfighters, and robot aliens doing impressions of Inspector Clouseau in his the Hunchback disguise. The fault is with Lucas, in getting rid of all his no men and in becoming a one-man band, with no one around him to give him advice on when he's become stupid and over the top; when the movies aren't going to work.
  8. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Many of my friends in real life dislike the PT for the reasons cited in the article. However, I believe they genuinely dislike the PT for those reasons; they aren't inventing smokescreen justifications to cover some inability to enjoy movies, or to compensate for the fact that they're getting older, or any of the faux pop psychological rationales put forward by the author of the article.

    I love the PT, but you know, in places the acting is bad, the dialogue is poor, Jar Jar is annoying, the CGI does have an unreal quality, some of the plot elements do strain credulity, and so on. Again, I love the PT films on a level that most of my real-life friends cannot understand or believe. But their complaints are legitimate, not invented. There are other films that do succeed in transporting these folks to a degree we once associated almost exclusively with the OT films, such as The Dark Knight, Serenity/Firefly, and Spirited Away, just to name three -- so I know for a fact that this accusation is bogus, that somehow people in their 30s are no longer able to tap into their childhood sense of wonder and excitement, and that that explains the negative reaction to the PT films.

    The negative reaction to the PT films derives from very real flaws in the filmmaking, not from older fans' inability to enjoy movies the way they did when they were kids.
  9. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    That list is about as convincing as a typical defense you see on these boards. I'm not sure if it needed its own thread.
  10. Black-Tiger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2008
    star 3
    Recently I've been buying the DVD disk sets of Deep Space 9 and have really gotten into it! Much better written than the PT, with much better character developement and plots. Afterwards I'll be collecting the sets of Voyager. Babylon 5 is also an amazing feat of story writing! If only the PT had been written so well. I also love Tron and the first load of Trek movies just as I did when I was a kid, as I do the new Batman movies, Transformers, Ironman etc. So all his rantings are for nought. Talking through his rear end, he is.
  11. the_immolated_one Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2006
    star 3
    If you're comparing Star Wars to "The Dark Knight" and "Serenity" then you are comparing apples to oranges and it's no wonder you're having trouble accepting the PT as part of the Star Wars legacy. While you may have a woman wearing a bikini in "Star Wars", you won't hear the woman say, "Goin' on a year now I ain't had nothin' twixt my nethers weren't run on batteries!" I don't remember Leia telling C-3P0 that she has been using a vibrator for a year. But I could be wrong, maybe that scene hit the cutting room floor, I guess I missed that in zombie's book.

    Do I even have to state the obvious and that is that, I don't care how many children's toys are out there with "Batman: The Dark Knight" on their plastic bubble, "The Dark Knight" is NOT for children. In the past "The Dark Knight" would have gotten an R rating.

    Now I admit "Star Wars" may cross the line with amputations, beheadings, and truncations but Lucas always did these things with quick edits and medium shots and the violence was fairly benign and typically bloodless when dealing with the death and/or dismemberment of humans. Star Wars movies are no more violent than some fairy tales and myths which is what it was always modelled after.






  12. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    There's a certain amount of bandwagoning, but you get that with anything. Generally speaking, filmgoers criticisms of the PT are based on valid grounds, whether you agree with them or not. I love the PT overall, but I understand that the level on which I enjoy it is not really experienced by a lot of people who aren't huge fans of the SW universe generally.
  13. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6

    =D=

    Thank you for being one of the few PT-lovers who can admit that those of us who don't enjoy the PT are something other than defective human beings. You have no idea how refreshing that is to see on this board.
  14. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    ^ ^ ^ I agree with this. I LIKE the PT and yet I've been labelled a bandwagoning hater when I've suggested things which I think could've been done better!
  15. Black-Tiger Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2008
    star 3
    To me the PT are almost totally different movies to ANH and ESB. the nearest of the OT to the PT is ROTJ, with its lack of plot, over reliance on roller coaster action and its abundance of cute misplaced Muppets. But is was with the PT that Lucas went all out Jim Henson on us.
  16. Game3525 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2008
    star 4
    The PT are not suppose to be anything like the OT, I think that is what GL was trying to achieve. Times were different in the PT. Aside from Jar-Jar, the PT really does not have many cute misplace muppets,lol. (And he was in only the first movie.)
  17. the_immolated_one Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2006
    star 3
    I like the PT just the way it is. There is nothing wrong with the PT compared to the OT.
    Movie critics have been bashing the OT and George Lucas for decades but all that criticism didn't worry the children of the late 70's and 80's because those children who are now in their 30's and 40's put the OT on a pedestal because it was their myth. It wasn't their parent's myth. It wasn't their grandparent's myth. It was their very own myth.

    Most of the criticism of the PT from the fans in their 30's and 40's sounds no different from the criticism that came from the people who were in their 30's and 40's when the OT was originally released. The truth is most people do not appreciate the depth of the six movies so, per the norm, people dismiss anything they don't understand as being silly.

    The truth is most people don't appreciate that from the very beginning George Lucas' story was based on fatalism and ideologies that accompany the concept of fatalism.



  18. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    How dare you compare Jim Henson to the dreck known as the PT! For shame!
  19. Master_Starwalker Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2003
    star 6
    I'm in the same boat.

    It's not. Lucas has specifically said that while you have a destiny, you can choose to whether or not you're going to follow it.

    "The Force itself is split into two sides: the living Force and a greater, cosmic Force. The living Force makes you sensitive to other living things, makes you intuitive, and allows you to read other people's minds, et cetera. But the greater Force has to do with destiny. In working with the Force, you can find your destiny and you can choose to either follow it, or not."
    -- George Lucas

    Star Wars is made up of many themes. It's not just one little simple parable. One is our relationship to machines, which are fearful, but also benign. Then there is the lesson of friendship and symbiotic relationships, of your obligations to your fellow man, to other people that are around you. This is a world where evil has run amuck. But you have control over your destiny, you have many paths to walk down, and you can choose which destiny is going to be yours.
    - Time interview (Bill Moyers) 03/05/99
  20. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Immolated_One, you appear to have missed the part where I said repeatedly that I love the PT films. I have no trouble at all "accepting the PT as part of the SW legacy". Please do not put words in my mouth. I personally hold the Saga -- all six films -- very close to my heart and mind, even if I do recognize -- gasp! -- that some of the episodes have a few -- blasphemy! -- flaws.

    Moreover, I was defending criticism of the PT in general. I was saying that it's legitimate rather than based in some perceived inability to get in touch with one's childhood adoration of adventure cinema, which the author of this thread would have us believe. When I use Serenity and Dark Knight as examples, I'm not comparing them directly to the SW films, as though they must be of the exact same tone and style in order to serve as analogies. I'm saying that critics of the PT, whom the author of this thread has accused of being out of touch with their faculties of wonder and imagination, can still find transport in adventure cinema. That one of the three examples I've offered has references to masturbation is not grounds to reject them as prime examples of action-adventure-sci-fi filmmaking.

  21. zombie Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 1999
    star 4
    Except people in their 30's and 40's in 1977 wrote about the film being "the years best movie" a "grand and glorious film," "the most perfect movie" and then nominated it for Oscars for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Screenplay and Best Suppoting Actor, and then awarded it wins for 7 more, aside frorm the other awards committees that honored the film and the hundreds of millions of box-office gross it managed without a pre-built fanbase. ESB left some people feeling lukewarm, but the only film that really can be compared to the PT is ROTJ, which had a lot of the same criticism as any of the PT, but a lot of fans and critics today are just as critical of ROTJ anyway, it always been sucky OT movie.
  22. yodas_waiter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2006
    star 3
    This guy isn't really saying anything new. I've heard all these arguments before.

    Personally, I don't see any kind of truth being presented because it all boils down to opinion and to claim otherwise would be a waste of time. There are legitimate complaints to be levelled at the prequels and these can be fun and interesting to discuss but I feel that it's often ruined by immaturity, from both sides.

    I think this blog entry is a prime example. First, he attacks those that don't like the prequels and then he tries to bring the classics down. I mean, that doesn't look good and won't win any favours.
  23. flowerlandsmarty Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2008
    ...because the default position of most people is to bring fans of the prequel trilogy down...
    ...and then insult the prequels themselves...
    ...of you read the comments of the page...
    ...youll see that there are a lot of people grateful that the author expressed said opinion...
  24. BaronLandoCalrissian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2006
    star 3
    Well, I'm glad that's settled! Thank God we have bloggers to explain the reactions of millions of strangers.
  25. drg4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2005
    star 4
    Though I'm one of the few posters here who prefers the PT?-its cynical nature suits my sensibilities, and the operatic flourishes are greater in number?-I'd have to say that chalking the widespread animus to age-discrepancy is pure ka ka. These movies are flawed, in a way ANH and TESB are not.

    Now, I may prefer even the worst of the prequels, AOTC, to ANH, but the original is undoubtedly the superior film. It boasts two qualities that Clones lacks: sincere performances, and a proper narrative thrust. In my eyes, that doesn't make up for the excessively broad characterizations and the dearth of subtext?-I've no more use for dragon-slaying adventures?-but technically speaking, it wipes the floor with Ep. II.

    For what it's worth, I applaud one of your last injunctions: ?So, don?t sour the experience for the kids who haven?t seen it yet - with your negativity and bitterness because it didn?t turn out the way you wanted.? I have in fact heard embittered fans claim they either won't let their children watch the PT, or intend to provide their precious editorials before previewing them. ("Say you like Chewie more than Jar Jar! Saa-aa-aa-y it, you little @#$%!!!!") Kinda a sure sign that it's time to move on with your life. I downright despise ROTJ, but you can be sure I'll keep my mouth shut if I happen to spawn little drg4s.
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