Saga OT Fans' Reactions to the PT

I have a bigger love to the PT because they were the first SW films I saw so at the moment I like all 3 of the PT better then the OT but that may change.

 

Hi..sorry wasn't ignoring your request. Rather than derail this thread (just because I have an opionion on something doesn't mean its right to swamp every thread here with it...I have enough humility to understand that) I'll refer you to
Star Wars, Lucas and TMIS


If you don't want to trawl all the way through that I'll be happy to pm you as brief a description as I can

 

Thank you

 

I've been on these boards - under a couple of different usernames - since before the PT was released, and can unequivocally attest that there is not as significant a division in this fandom as there is perceived to be. The Prequel Trilogy is not nearly as reviled amongst the fandom as people seem to think it is, and not enough has been done to dispel the idea that it is.

 

Yeah, I think there are far more OT era fans who simply don't care for the prequels much as opposed to actively loathing them as is the pop culture perception. Unfortunately it's people like Plinkett who get all the attention and shade perceptions.

 

I feel like the PT was executed in an incompetent, oddly amateurish fashion, whereas the OT felt more like just well-made movies by people who knew what they were doing. I still remember the first time I saw TPM and thinking, to my horror, like I was watching a bad high school play. The funny thing is, I don't actually have any problem with the concepts themselves, like others do, just their execution. The concept of Jar Jar works for me, he was just badly done (watch the Spanish dubbed version sometime and hear how infinitely more entertaining Jar Jar is in it). The concept of midichlorians works for me, it was just over explained in the movie. If they just cut out the scene of QGJ explaining what they are to Anakin, they would have worked much better and caused more speculation. To my befuddlement, some people actually argue against the midichorians by saying they make Force sensitivity genetically determined instead of being open to anyone, as if this wasn't the case in the OT. I'm sure Obi Wan called Luke "our last hope" because Luke Skywalker was the last open minded person alive [/sarcasm]. To sum it up, I love the PT story, not fond of the PT storytelling.

 

To be fair, regarding the OT, it's only the case in ROTJ (Yoda's death, Obi-Wan and Luke, Luke and Leia). It's basically absent from ANH and ESB. But, yeah, it was already introduced in the OT.
Some people indeed complained about this, probably because it reinforced even more the genetical aspect in a more scientific way.

The main complaints about midichlorians were more that it stripped the Force of its magical and mystic aspects.

 

They likewise promote genetic elitism which isn't a positive thing.

 

OT fan. When PT was released I remember really enjoying most aspects of it. But even as an 11 year old kid I can remember looking at several of the acting performances, and the chemistry between some of the characters, and finding them wanting. In the OT, there may be some performances that you could argue are bland, underwhelming, but I can't think of any really horrible, cringe worthy scenes from any of the actors. The PT has several I can think of, even a few from the top tier actors it employed. For this I blame the writing and direction, and format of shooting GL employed.

When I saw AOTC I disliked it from the first, and by this time had grown more and more dissatisfied with Phantom.

Then came ROTS, and being arguably the best of the 3 I enjoyed it thoroughly, in the moment. But when I watch it now I still feel underwhelmed and disappointed. I do not dislike it as I do with the first 2, but as a person who loves film, the PT do not hold up well against its predecessors.

I'll admit I'm an opinionated son-of-a-wookie, but I try my best to listen to others opinions with genuine interest and respect. That said, anyone who says the PT is good filmmaking is out to lunch. Are they enjoyable entertainment? Yes, not for myself, but several of my friends love them. And I've always said a bad film can still be enjoyable and a good film displeasing. I have tried to enjoy the PT over the years (God knows I've watched them enough), but a year and a half ago I decided that my enjoyment for them is too minimal, and outweighed by my frustration with them, that I have no intentions on viewing them again. I don't fault the casting, the visual and special fx artists, the editing, (obviously not the scoring). Again I fault GL for being a poor writer (with dialogue not story; always felt the story of the PT was excellent if not a little rushed) and director. Guy is a visionary, but he doesn't seem to know his strengths and weaknesses and how to delegate work.

I'd love to rant more and provide support to my reasons but I don't want to be "that guy"....hope that I, unknowingly, haven't been already But if anyone does want more of an explanation I won't shy away!

 

#classymove

 

Interesting idea about ANH and ESB not indicating that force sensitivity was genetic. Why, then, would Obi -Wan call Luke their "last hope" in ESB? I always thought it was because Luke was the last known person in a bloodline of Force sensitives.

. I agree, but I think mainly because the concept was incompetently illustrated, not because of the concept itself. At it's core, it's just about symbiosis and the ability of organisms to depend on each other. The Force itself is still as mystical as ever.

 

I think the concept of Force legacy was there from the start. After all, Ben doesn't give a lightsaber to some random kid. For some reason, he waits for Luke, a son of his "friend" to grow up and continue his father's supposed legacy. In ESB, Obi-Wan and Yoda place all their hopes on Luke and his unknown sibling. At the same time, Vader and Emperor both want Luke as an apprentice to use against each other. Why, if it wasn't for a genetic component?

 

Exactly. "The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." What would be the significance of him being Skywalker's son, if there is nothing genetic about Force Sensitivity?

 

hmmmm...yeah. Except we have reference to a story conference where Lucas made it clear that anybody could use the Force.

There are other reasons than simply genetic propensity for Obi-Wan watching over Luke. He was his "good friend"'s son....who (initially at least) wanted Luke to have his lightsabre. Originally Vader wasn't even Luke's father....

As for "He is our last hope...." and "there is another"...that "other" wasn't originally Leia. In fact, who it was may not have been a concrete idea at the time (the line being devised to add tension regarding Luke's future...).

It's not quite as straightforward as some would like to argue.....

 

The evolution of story telling, the writing of it, is such a fascinating thing. We look back on the story and see Luke being given his fathers lightsaber, or there being another Skywalker twin and think it was all planned out from the start. But that GL, at the time of writing those parts, didn't realize that those were elements to be introduced, that it all just evolved and a was able to connect a to z in the end is incredible, or cool at the very least. So many good tales (outside of SW), you can finish and go wow, what a master plan they (the author) had. But thats not the case! It just seems to be the destiny of a good story to have bits and pieces come together like that. As if the stories write themselves!

Sorry, I know that's not what that discussion was about, but thats where my mind went

 

Luke wasn't just some random kid. He was a good friend's son who Obiwan had been watching over for some time and may well have adjudged to have Jedi potential, regardless of his lineage.

The son of Skywalker must not be allowed to become a Jedi simply because Palpatine didn't want ANY Jedi around and this happened to be the guy who had begun training. Palpatine's reasoning for telling Vader about the family link could have been many and varied.

Luke being force sensitive LIKE his father is slightly different to him being so BECAUSE of his father.

 

Indeed, it becomes more implied and "in the air" in ESB, you're right in a way.

"In ESB, Obi-Wan and Yoda place all their hopes on Luke and his unknown sibling"
Yes. Although, in ESB, the other was probably not Luke's twin sister yet, such a concept had clearly been toyed with in the first drafts. And it will be definitely introduced in ROTJ.

"At the same time, Vader and Emperor both want Luke as an apprentice to use against each other. Why, if it wasn't for a genetic component ?"
Not necessarily. Vader and the Emperor wants Luke mainly because, first, he has begun his training to become a Jedi, because of his new abilities; second, for Vader, because Luke is his son.
At last, because in the end, he remains, apart from Yoda, the only remaining Force user as far as they know.

"The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi." What would be the significance of him being Skywalker's son, if there is nothing genetic about Force Sensitivity ?"
Same as above. That's not necessarily because he is the son of Anakin Skywalker that he is very strong in the Force, to that point. I agree it becomes more and more hinted and "family oriented". But it will only become clear and definitely introduced in ROTJ. Even if it was in Lucas' head all along (likely).


However, in ANH, it's really more evanescent and questionable to me. Luke is basically following the steps of his father who was a former Jedi knight, after his foster parents have been massacred by the Empire. Not more.
Of course, it is said "he has too much of his father in him", and that "he's just not a farmer". But it doesn't necessarily means that there is genetical determination regarding the ability to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi (Force potential). To me, It only means that he ressembles his father to that point.

It's quite possible and likely that such a concept was there from the very beginning. But it is at the very least extremely toned down in ANH, and not that obvious in ESB.

 

I saw the OT first, but I remember liking the prequels more then the OT when I was a kid.

 

I saw the OT first back 1997 when the Special Editions came out. I liked ANH. Don't remember too much about ESB, ROTJ, or TPM when it came out. Now when AOTC, I loved it and watched it multiple times. That's when I started becoming a fan. Later on when ROTS came out, it was the first SW film I saw in theaters so it will always have a special place in my heart. Hence why I identify myself more as a PTer.

 

OT were better made films, where everything came together nice. The PT things fell apart with Lucas relying more on special effects and lack of respect for a decent script with proper character development and a lack of attention towards direction of actors. Lucas also had the bad habit of editing out scenes that were needed for the story and making everything shorter and faster paced, even action scenes suffered.

 

I've never considered myself a fan of one trilogy or another, just a fan of the 6-movie story that Lucas gave us over the many decades. I love everything about the films and love many things about each of the individual movies. Each one works for me individually, but better as a part of the whole. Some movies function better on their own than others, like TPM and ANH naturally function I think a lot better as stand-alone films than do the other 4, because of the way that AOTC and ESB kind of have cliffhanger endings and then ROTS and ROTJ complete the trilogy arcs, etc.

 

It has become "hip" and "Cool" to bash on the PT,but you know what?
For all their shortcomings I wouldnt be without the PT as a part of the Star Wars Saga for all the tea in china..
I liked them and look fondly back on the times I took my friends that was vaguely
familiar with Star Wars(I was kinda a Jock/secret geek if that makes sense) mostly for nostalgia reasons,but over the years I have grown to enjoy the saga as a whole..I dont see it as PT/OT anymore but a series of movies that constitutes a coherent story

 

Of course there will be exceptions to this statement, but generally speaking younger fans prefer the PT while older fans prefer the OT. Which to me makes sense and is fine. How old we are when we experience something can have a major impact on our outlook and POV. As someone who prefers the OT over the PT, to me, the weaknesses of the PT are glaring:
1) It unapologetically panders to a elementary school aged demographic.
2) Acting. No Star Wars movie had great acting, but it's mind boggling how Lucas
Was OK with what Hayden, Natalie, Sam Jackson, and sometimes Ewan brought to the table. The fact that, after certain takes, Lucas said, "Yes. Great, that's it." is short changing the actors and thereby the story.
3) Most of it looks fake. Seriously, how does TPM come out 16 years after ROTJ, but look less realistic. Now, AOTC and ROTS were bigger offenders, but it really hurts the overall product. And if you don't this it did or that it doesn't matter, the. Why is Kathleen Kennedy and Abrams going out of their way to stress the greater usage of sets and practical affects for TFA? Because it was a cinematic fail.
4) Midichlorians, Anakin's virgin birth. Two extremely heavy handed ways to explain things that dd not need explaining. I understand the intent of Modiclorians, they help Jedi understand (the will of the Force) but that
Immediately brought many people to one place: blood transfpusion. To the point that a now decanonized now had to explain that away. The virgin birth. OK, religious cop out. It's not appalling, but it's not strong storytelling either.

Sorry, didn't mean to get on a soapbox! I've never, now will I ever engage in an OT vs PT disagreement with someone. To each their own and what you enjoy is what you enjoy. I guess the long winded taleaway is that while all 6 films have flaws, the PT has
More of them,'which hurt the overall films to varying degrees. But it's all Star Wars, so it's all good!

 

It's not suddenly some "hipster thing" to criticize the Prequel Trilogy, just because people have actual grievances with the films. The acting ranges from mediocre to atrocious at times, the chemistry is nonexistent between Anakin and Padme, the CGI is very heavy and looks dated 10 years later, and a lot of the Original Trilogy mythos was ruined by the Prequels (also 40 minutes of political crap is not the way to entice your audience). The overall story of the Prequels is quite good, but TPM and AOTC are very hard for me to watch now. I was born in the 90s and grew up with both Trilogys but over the years the Prequels flaws became harder to ignore.

 

Its funny that ROTJ was the one SW to get a lot of criticism, but ROTJ is a very good film, it was just being judged against its predecessors which were and still are two of the best films of all time. Jump forward 16 years and my basic problem was that the PT films just weren't as good as the OT films. TPM story wise, acting wise is emotionless and got the PT off on the wrong foot. Such a let down. This continued with AOTC. These 2 films took away the very soul of SW, the stuff that made the OT such fun and great to watch, heroes and villains in the OT we rooted for, cared about and hated in equal measures because they were written well and were in peril. The PT doesn't have this. It seemed to lose the emotion and the acting inbetween (and amongst) the action. I think it went for visual style over substance when the core of the PT should IMO have been about relationships to make the fall of Anakin work....... in particular the human element between Obi Wan, Anakin, Palpatine and Padme. This seemed to be a secondary issue and only started to bear fruit in ROTS, but it was too late. It wasn't built well enough over the course of the first 2 films to make the big moment of the turning of Anakin to be convincing. At that point I ended up not caring at all about Anakin when I should have.The PT has some good ideas, but I think it was poorly told, poorly constructed, poorly paced and it serves to undermine the great character that is Darth Vader.

So IMO people are clutching at straws when they look for lots of sublime meanings, emotive historical parallels and thinking it was a more clever set of films on a deeper level to try and justify that it is indeed a better trilogy than it actually is.

Sure people can bury their heads in the sand and throw the 'its not what you wanted' card but there are many things wrong with the PT that make it so disappointing for me.