Ot lines with new meanings...

Excellent observations in your first post, BruceWayne, especially #1. In that scene Vader and Kenobi are almost literally surrounded by persons and images of their past. As you pointed out, Luke and Leia, Anakin's offspring are there. The stormtroopers are a variation of the clonetroopers first discovered by the future General Kenobi. The droids, C3PO and R2D2, are there, too. C3PO was created by Anakin and later served Leia in the struggle against her own father, "the Maker." R2D2 was travelling companion of Anakin and his wife, Padme, as well as the saviour of both Padme and their daughter, Leia, on several occassions. I wonder if Vader was in some sense aware that fate had returned these same droids to be in his presence and if R2D2 knew Vader to be Anakin?

They are all also inside the "ultimate weapon" the creation of which the actions of both Anakin and Kenobi on Geonosis contribute to. The Death Star is in the midst of the remains of Alderaan, the home planet of Leia's adoptive father who, along with Leia's biological mother, opposed the creation of an army for the republic, variants of which are now inside the very Death Star which the Geonosians, the providers of the clone army's first opponents, the Trade Federation's droid army, first designed.

That scene is rich with hair-raising assocations, some of which may yet be discovered.

 

I totally agree about the look Obi-Wan gives to Vader as Luke and Leia are running for the Falcon. I've always thought about that scene as one with Kenobi thinking "There are your children...and you have no idea..."

Actually, virtually every scene that features Alec Guiness in ANH seems to tie in with the PT. The way he slightly hesitates when it comes to telling Luke about his father - there's just no way he can tell him the truth at that time. Even Yoda thought that he was "not ready for the burden".

As for giving Luke his father's lightsaber I doubt that Vader actually left it for him, more likely Obi-Wan wanted to spark Luke's interest in learning the Force and by making it sound like it was the wish of his father. Another classic Obi-Wan moment - "This weapon is your life!"

 

Thanks Antikristos and DeloreanKenobi . .you have made my first post very profitable. Antikristos . .that is brilliant . .I never had thought about that. If there were ever to be a Prequel/Classic Trilogy reunion . .that scene would have to be the closest we might ever come.

Almost everyone above has mentioned that the way Guiness plays Kenobi is perfect. In my opinion, he gave him such a tragic and mysterious connotation and definitely a notion that this character has such a rich back-story!

I think the one that really stuck with me as a kid (in my late 20s now) is when Luke asks him if he knows "Obi Wan" and if he is a relative of his.

Watch the look on Alec Guiness's face. As soon as Luke says the name Obi Wan Kenobi . .Guiness looks as if he has seen a ghost. This is a name from his distant past . .a name that haunts him to this day. As he gives Luke that look of surprise I picture all the events of the Prequels going through his mind in a flash . .Qui Gon . .the training of Anakin . .the Clone Wars . .the Fall of the Republic. All because of the look that "Ben" gives Luke after he hears his former Jedi name for the first time in perhaps . .decades?


Argh . I want these films on DVD right now!

Okay, sorry I am better bow.

 

Actually when you look at that scene where Luke asks Kenobi if he knows "Obi-Wan" I've always had the idea that the thought going through Kenobi's mind was something like:

"How did he know my name? How much does he know??"

...and then the memories of his life as a Jedi come flooding back, especially when he says

"Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time... a long time..."

 

Great posts guys.

Here's a few that sticks out in my mind:

"Your overconfidence is your weakness."
"Your faith in your friends is yours."

For some reason, Palpatine's line is extremely powerful especially after the events of Episode III when Anakin feels he is betrayed by his friends.

"Your destiny lies with me, Skywalker. Obi-Wan knew this to be true."

Did he really?

And then of course...

"I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan Kenobi." >chilling!<

Also, this part on Tatooine really has an impact:
"You don't need to see his identification. These aren't the droids your looking for. Move along."

Here we see Obi-Wan knows full well what those StormTroopers are exactly, and the man who originated the designs (Jango). Alec Guiness plays this scene so dryly that its perfect, the dour, bitter old man dealing with weak minded consequences. Great!

 

"Your destiny lies with me Skywalker, Obi-Wan knew this to be true."

I've always seen this moment as Vader trying to confuse Luke to make him feel like his situation is hopeless and to trick him into letting down his guard and accepting the Dark Side. Seems to tie in nicely with the ways of the Sith as explained by Yoda in Attack of the Clones:

"Joined the Dark Side Dooku has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are his ways now."

 

Good points guys. Since I have seen AOTC I have yet to watch ANH so I keep forgetting about all the Kenobi/Clone Trooper interactions. Brilliant.

I agree with DeloreanKenobi . .the "your destiny lies with me Skywalker, OB1 knew this to be true" line I think is Vader lying in order to try and tempt Luke to go to the Dark Side.

DarthVegas: the pivotal lines you mention sum up what, for me, represents goodness and darkness in the entire SW saga and, in a sense, throughout life:

"Your overconfidence is your weakness." - This sums up how all the bad guys fall, from Darth Maul to Palpatine. Being overly confident is an obstacle when one tries to walk the right path. Heck, even the Jedi of the Prequels experienced this . .and look what happened.

"Your faith in your friends is yours." - Actually, having faith in his friends is precisely what makes Luke good. Having faith in our friends is perhaps our greatest asset.

Ah, love those lines. And to have them at the end of the Saga, breaking down (once again for me) the aspects of goodness and darkness are one of the many reasons why Return of the Jedi rocks.

 

More A New Hope discussion . .

Anyone else think it is interesting that right when Obi Wan and Luke begin speaking about Luke's father, C3PO asks to be shut down?

I know .. I know . .it is only a "funny moment" engineered by Lucas because right when he asks if he can be shut down Luke answers (really quickly) "sure go ahead!" so it is funny that no one wants him to speak.

BUT . .I still think it is interesting because in no other time during the Classic Trilogy is Luke's father mentioned around C3PO, especially in this in-depth capacity.

Now I am not saying that there will be a scene in Ep III when a character programs C3PO to "shut down" whenever Anakin is mentioned . .but I still think it an interesting thing that none of us may have ever noticed.

 

"crunch"
-the stormtrooper bumping his head.

i'm glad they cleared that up in episode 2!

 

Or how about in ESB when Artoo goes "beep-beep-boop-beep-bop?"

In hindsight those words are pretty chilling.

 

I've never really looked at the scene with Threepio shutting down as a funny moment though I do think the moment he chose to shut down - just as Obi-Wan was about to mislead Luke by telling him an alternative version of Anakin's downfall - was interesting timing.
He manages to miss the story totally.

 

i always kinda felt these two lines were a little contradictory:


"you catch on pretty quick" -some guy describing anakin


"i am a slow learner" -anakin describing himself





just food for thought.

 

Master Delorean_Kenobi - we seem to be keeping this thread alive, collectively.

Here is a thought that as been occupying my mind recently . .

Thinking about ANH . most specifically, the Vader/Kenobi duel . .think about this: Not one time in the entire SW Saga does ANY character casually refer to a Dark Lord of the Sith as "Darth". How disrespectful!

But . .how courageous is the speaker! For we see, anyone who lets the Dark Lord down always has death awaiting them (The Empire Strikes Back has, oh I don't know, has countless examples of this).

Throughout the SW saga, people always address the Sith as "Lord Vader" or "Lord Maul" or "My Lord." Always very respectful.

But I LOVE Ep IV:

"The circle is now complete. Once I was the learner now I am the master.

And Kenobi (very casually) states: "Only a master of evil, Darth."

How dare he flatly refer to the Sith as "Darth"? Very disrespectful. I mean, c'mon . .Darth?! That name in itself could mean "Maul" or "Tyranus" or (gasp) "Sidious". So many "Darths" occupy the SW films.

I love it. It is as if the old general of the Clone Wars and the perpetual, tragic hero of the Prequel Trilogy is getting his "jabs" in at the expense of the villain (and former friend) of the Classic Trilogy. Such history there . .and it is a testament to how Sir Guinness played the part.

I cannot find a witty signature.

 

Fosh,

So true . .I think (Ric Olie?) was just complimenting Anakin's piloting skills (to set us up for the fact that Anakin would later be flying a Naboo ship) and then . . .the later line you mention is Anakin "playing down" his skills.

After seeing AOTC numerous times, I don't think Anakin would take the opportunity to berate himself when, during the course of the entire film, he bragged and boasted (stating that in many ways, he was ahead of Kenobi, and that he was holding him back, etc)

;-]

In my opinion, he was being sarcastic when he said "I am a slow learner" to Dooku.

And in many ways, he was making fun of Kenobi for making him feel like that.

 

"Only a master of evil Darth."

To me he makes the name 'Darth' sound just like it means 'evil' itself, as in 'only a master of evil, SITH!!" He's reminding Anakin that he chose the wrong path and is not a man of greatness at all.

It's like the way the Emperor later says "So be it, Jedi" he spits out the word 'Jedi' with barely disguised contempt to point out to Luke that he has chosen what he considers to be the weaker path.

 

Yep I agree, there. Just cool because, at no other time does ANYONE casually (or with emphasis) refer to a Sith as "Darth".

Imagine if Nute Gunray referred to Lord Maul as "Darth." He would be dead quicker than you could say "you assume too much."

 

Let's look at Empire now . (well, I guess I will) . .

One line that always gives me chills no matter how many times I see it is when Luke says:

"I won't fail you...I am not afraid."

with Yoda replying . . .

"You will be. You will be."

The way Yoda says it is perfect and contains such foreboding depth.

For me it is as if Yoda is saying, "Youngster, you have NO IDEA what we have in store for you or how far we have fallen to get to this point. Right now you know so little . .and it is only going to get worse."

 

"To me he makes the name 'Darth' sound just like it means 'evil' itself, as in 'only a master of evil, SITH!!" He's reminding Anakin that he chose the wrong path and is not a man of greatness at all. "


Do you think it would be fantastic if Obiwan refers to anakin as Darth in episode III?



I do.

 

I do indeed. It would be very cool.

I like how in 'A New Hope' Beru asks Luke "Where are you going?" and then in 'Attack of the Clones' Owen asks Anakin the same thing. Both in the same room 20-something years apart.

 

> I mean, was [Alec Guinness] told by
> Lucas to briefly pause before answering
> the question "how did my father die?"
> My guess is no.

Right! And it's not just a pause... it's
an eternity of a pause, coupled with a look
of concern and almost panic, like he was
waiting twenty years for Luke to ask that
question, and now he really has to answer
it, and it's difficult.

 

Brucewayne1 thats a pretty impressive first post ever.

 

Has anybody thought of the time in ESB at bespin just before han Solo is frozen in carbonite, It's (I think) the only time Darth Vader has a good look at C-3PO. I wonder what he thought seeing his droid after so long.
I wonder if he even cared.

 

Thanks Kyle! Good to get some other people joining this thread.

I have seen lots of discussion in the past involving that scene you describe (Vader seeing 3PO on Chewie's back before Han is frozen).

Interesting that, after Chewie starts going nuts and throwing troopers everyone, Vader stops Boba Fett from shooting at Chewie's/3PO's direction. Not saying that he finally realizes who the droid is or acknowledges him, but still pretty interesting.

 

"The Imperial senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently."

[face_shocked] "How will the Emperor maintain control without the burocracy?"

"Fear. ..."



Whoa. Now that I know how big the "senate" was, that seems like a much bigger deal now.
Of course, after a bunch of systems seperate and the clone wars start, the senate got a lot smaller. But still. The seperatists lose. "We know this, man!" So whatever is left of the government for whatever is left of the GFFA has still got to be pretty big.

And he just "dissolved" it.

 

i was laughing in the theatre when i watch AOTC for the first time, honestly the guy loves democracy!